Gamers Bill Of Rights
Home | News | Case Studies | Forum
Search
Forum Home | Login

Patch Stat Changes Forum [NEW TOPIC: Adjudicators 8/25/09]!!

23 PagesFirst 3 4 5 6 7  Last
Deceiver_0
Volt_Cruelerz
Join Date 06/2008
+115
Reply #101 July 5, 2009 1:17:40 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Personally, I could see omnidirectionals as a something that could happen, but I would recommend nerfing it in something else... Say the amount healed?

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
Deceiver_0
Ascension
Join Date 04/2008
+4
Reply #102 July 5, 2009 3:20:50 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

katana. get your foot out of your mouth k? 

WE as in VASARI as in my MAIN RACE.

2nd i dont have to respond to your arguments because you arent someone im looking to change the mind of. im talking to deceiver who actually has some sort of intelligent argument instead of you over here trying to pick fights

my opinion isnt based on one thing. i look at EVERY SINGLE REPAIR ABILITY WE HAVE. our "mass disable ability" is actually "disabled" by the hoshiiko demo bot. there is no way in hell you would see a vasari spam out 15 subs because if they have 15 subs it doesnt matter how many they have. their fleet is still dead.

you sir need to get over yourself. i had no intention of talking to you and it seems i was correct in my assumption. you obviously want to grab some attention so why not go talk to siddy. im sure he has something for you. 

and fyi it doesnt matter if their repair ships are down for oh... 20 seconds because in the time you bring 1 of those ships down to 50 percent health they are all reactivated and that 50 percent health that 1 ship had steadily climbs back up to 100.

get over yourself please. this is a topic about balance to the game. go get your jollies somewhere else.

 

@ volt. i personally think a nerf isnt necessary because if the hoshiko ability lasts 13 seconds,, which is does. theyve already got 260 hull points back and my repair ability is still cooling down. their repair ability cools in 3-5 seconds. in the 15 seconds it takes my repair ability to recharge theyve healed 3 to 5 ships back up to 250+ health.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
Deceiver_0
lifekatana
Join Date 05/2008
+18
Reply #103 July 5, 2009 4:31:58 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Hmm, if I read your post I believe you are the one insulting me. I have never done so to you. And I too discuss about the game's balance, by joining a discussion about repair abilities. I have no intention of "fighting" whatsoever. I don't want to discuss something with someone who is insulting me. Now, let's go on with the discussion:

 

The sub can be be disabled by the demo bot, but you can do the exact same thing to him!  

(I deleted this part, because we already agree on this)

Perhaps the fact that both the repair and the disable abilities are on one TEC ship is the problem?

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
Deceiver_0
Ascension
Join Date 04/2008
+4
Reply #104 July 5, 2009 4:40:36 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

no bro. thats not what im saying. im saying i want omnidirectional ability. countless times ive lost a cap because my overseer was trying to execute a turn to use its nanite armor. omnidirectional ability is all im asking for. if you thought i was insulting you then you are mistaken but i hadnt even read your reply.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
Deceiver_0
lifekatana
Join Date 05/2008
+18
Reply #105 July 5, 2009 4:43:20 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Ok, then I misunderstood you too. I thought you wanted to buff the Vasari repair rate AND make it omnidirectional. I apologise.

 

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
Deceiver_0
Deceiver_0
Join Date 12/2008
+42
Reply #106 July 5, 2009 5:26:03 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Ascension I hear your argument, and it is pretty solid

Here's where I see a problem, and I'll use Cap Ships as an example.

Let's say you have A Marza with MB quickly approaching your fleet, trailed by 10 hoshis. You're going to send every last bomber you have to take out the Marza before it gets to you. The hoshis start healing the Marza but they are limited cuz they can only cast a heal on it every 15 seconds, limiting the marzas Maximum heal rate during this time to 300 hp every 15 seconds. You could attack the hoshis, but they can heal each other too, just as fast.

Now Imagine the same scenario with say an Evacuator with Planet suck going after your last planet, trailed by 10 overseers. You send every last bomber you have at it. Currently you CAN do this with Vasari, you just have to make sure each ship is pointed right at the evacuator (and have your micro ready, because leaving it up to the autocast is probably not a good idea here) You'll run into problems currently if the Overseers are attacked, where the abilities directional qualities are a factor. If the ability was omnidirectional, good luck destroying that egg, but likelihood is it wont happen. Not when those 10 overseers can take the eggs HP from say 50 to 2550 in 10 seconds.

It's the stackability of nanite armor that worries me, nothing else. For most of your arguements about hoshis being lower tiered and tougher ships with a more useful second ability, cool down time, AM cost etc, I agree. But making it omnidirectional with its current stackability I feel will make it OP, especially when they're protecting Cap Ships.

I could go along with a faster turn rate, or a larger firing Arc (not completely omni), but I can't support a fully omnidirectional nanite armor because of its stackability.

BTW thanks for keeping this discussion civil (at least towards me)

 

 

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
Deceiver_0
Ascension
Join Date 04/2008
+4
Reply #107 July 5, 2009 7:31:00 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

but see man. the thing is that i may get 2550 hull points restored but for 15 seconds my cap is all yours. in tat 15 seconds its dead. end of story.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
Deceiver_0
Volt_Cruelerz
Join Date 06/2008
+115
Reply #108 July 5, 2009 8:07:35 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Which is why a faster turning rate/wider firing arc would work.  Good idea Deceiver

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
Deceiver_0
Deceiver_0
Join Date 12/2008
+42
Reply #109 July 5, 2009 8:13:48 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Gotta have a lot of bombers (or anything) to do that kind of damage in 15 seconds, where as only 10 overseers can heal it that amount. Add more Overseers and it just that much more damage you've got to dish in 15 seconds, where as adding more hoshis wont help at all. To the point where if you can't deal more than the targets Max hp in damage instantly, it won't die. See what im getting at? I think an increase in the abilities fire arc (~90 degrees) or a turn rate increase is right on the money, that way they get a boost in usability but are still burdened by having to turn and face (partially) their target, and can't just slap on 250hp where and whenever its needed.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
Deceiver_0
Ascension
Join Date 04/2008
+4
Reply #110 July 5, 2009 9:23:30 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

my friend lets be real. in any situation if there are more than 10 overseers the persons essentially just delaying the inevitable. 15 x 7 = 135 fleet points. if you have that many taking up your fleet space you can pretty much safely assume you have more firepower. 

from your example you just told me you have enough bombers to do some massive damage to my cap. the cap still dies man. its just delaying the inevitable. you of all people know what ff does to a cap. omnidirectional ability would help to nerf this. i know you being an advent player will abuse ilums to the max just like any other advent would in such a situation. everyone knows if 50+ ilums ff on you like that you pretty much just lost the cap. and for vasari thats a game ender. if i can restore 250 points quickly. efficiently. i may survive to another day. everyone knows that a TEC ship can escape due to their high hull points and armor. advent have their high shielding. vasari is stuck in the middle with a mixture of both.

no one gets harmed out of this man. it just makes it so you have to balance your fleet a bit more to deal with my repair ships.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
Deceiver_0
JuleTron
Join Date 06/2008
+17
Reply #111 July 5, 2009 9:36:52 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Making overseers turn faster or have a wider firing arc sounds very good.

 

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
Deceiver_0
Deceiver_0
Join Date 12/2008
+42
Reply #112 July 5, 2009 9:38:26 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Im resigned to think this is something we will never see eye to eye on unless its implemented. Theory only goes so far.

I guess in the mean time I'll run some tests on the overseer to see how it can be improved to function better, and when I post it up here, I'll include the omnidirectional topic so it can be put to a vote.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
Deceiver_0
Ascension
Join Date 04/2008
+4
Reply #113 July 5, 2009 9:40:09 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

faster turning or wider firing arc is good and fine sure. but omnidirectionalness would truly make it far more realistic. really..the most advanced race in the game cant rotate a repair turret but has to rotate the entire ship? is this on par with ANY of the vasari abilities or weapons? we all know their ships can fire 360 degree. enforcers can fire 180 degrees in front of them. phase missiles can go ANYWHERE. pulse beams which are the lowest of the low can even rotate 45 degrees. i dont understand why omnidirectional abilities are so wrong..

 

oh btw.. the hoshikos heal every 3-5 seconds. for every 1 ship i heal theyve and still are healing 3 or 4 of them.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
Deceiver_0
N3rull
Join Date 10/2008
+42
Reply #114 July 6, 2009 3:44:55 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

The argument that, should they be given omnidirectional casting, a small group of Overseers could keep any ship alive against any odds is quite valid.

It is the flawed slow damage calculation, terribly lagged autocast targetting, insanely slow turn rate of Overseers and oftentimes odd behavior* that really fouls up Overseers.
Right now, Overseers are good only if
- enemy dps is small (say, if he takes 10+ seconds to kill an Enforcer; then Overseers may manage to do something before it blows up)
- the enemy is focusing your Cap or Starbase.

* - odd behavior is:
1] In a fleet, they tend to try to keep their position in formation. So once they are issued a heal command, they will then turn back and fly to where they should be. Obviously, before they turn back towards their heal target, it is long dead.
2] After healing a target that is, say 45 degrees down from horizontal (if there's anything like that in space), they will try to level themselves after each cast. Then, when they have their cooldowns refreshed, they have to turn "down" again. Takes valuable time.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
Deceiver_0
Deceiver_0
Join Date 12/2008
+42
Reply #115 July 6, 2009 6:51:02 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

N3rull,

Thanks for your insight, but I couldn't draw a definite conclusion of your stances on the new topics from your reply, so I haven't put you up there yet.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
Deceiver_0
definitelynotme
Join Date 07/2008
+9
Reply #116 July 6, 2009 7:18:59 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Overseers:

yay

yay

nay

nay

yay and maybe ~20% antimatter loss

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
Deceiver_0
Ascension
Join Date 04/2008
+4
Reply #117 July 6, 2009 7:33:15 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

overseers yay for reduction in jump speed.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
Deceiver_0
Volt_Cruelerz
Join Date 06/2008
+115
Reply #118 July 6, 2009 7:39:37 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

I like jump degradation damage

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
Deceiver_0
Darvin3
Join Date 12/2008
+177
Reply #119 July 6, 2009 8:00:38 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Enforcer:

  • nay
  • nay
  • yay
  • yay
  • yay
  • yay

Overseer:

yay to jump degredation dealing damage, nay to 360 degree heals.

 

 

I don't know why we're talking about the Overseer when the subverter hasn't yet been discussed.  Definitely the weaker of Vasari's two support cruisers.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
Deceiver_0
milo896
Join Date 04/2008
+3
Reply #120 July 6, 2009 8:12:10 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Overseers' RNA needs no buffs at all, and in particular not 360* casting. That would be quite OP, for the reasons already stated here (ability to totally void FF advantage). Increasing the firing arc or turn rate would be an ok idea, but both shouldn't be done. RNA is plenty useful/powerful as is.

I could stand to see the other two abilities buffed though. I never bother researching them, as they currently stand.

 

Overseers:

yay/nay

nay/yay

(first two mutually exclusive)

nay

yay

yay (5 - 10% hull dmg sounds fine. Other slight penalty could be antimatter reduction, or temporary speed/acceleration penalties.)

 

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
Deceiver_0
Howdidudothat
Join Date 04/2008
+34
Reply #121 July 6, 2009 8:20:34 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Enforcer: First three - Nays.  Last three - Yays.

Overseer: Y - Y - N - Y - N

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
Deceiver_0
Deceiver_0
Join Date 12/2008
+42
Reply #122 July 6, 2009 8:50:39 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Definitely the weaker of Vasari's two support cruisers.

I disagree with you there. I usually go for subverters before overseers. I've had little problems with the subverters (other than the activation range of distortion field being shorter than the AOE of repulsion). Their first ability, while weak, synergizes well with Vasari SC, and with good micro of SC, it can be turned into a weaker version of designate target. The targeting Ai for that ability, in my experience, functions rather well. Distortion field is still awesome, and can tear apart advent batteballs (that aren't using repulse, otherwise their pretty useless as they'll just bounce at the edge of the repulse and become easy targets for illums, destras and SC). Targeting Ai for distortion field isn't amazing, but against human players I still trust it to hit near the area I need it. What I do to micro distortion field is have auto cast off to begin with, and then turn it on in groups of 2 or 3 every 15-20 seconds. Then I hit stop so they won't wait until whatever theyre attacking is dead before using distortion field. Sometimes they'll cast on the same unit, but I don't mind as often it will disable units that have entered the range of the field after the first has been cast.

I really think tweaking the enforcer and overseer will give Vasari back some of that late game power they lost in the the nerf of RA.

Plus making the overseer more effective will enhance the power of subverters by giving them more life, and allowing them to live longer (as they are Prime targets for anyone encountering them).

Oh and you know what else works great? Using the Skirantra's replicate forces on Subverters. I did it once and it worked Wonders.

The only thing Subverters need is to be able to outrange repulse IMO. I put that topic up for a vote underneath Repulse.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
Deceiver_0
Deceiver_0
Join Date 12/2008
+42
Reply #123 July 6, 2009 9:05:05 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

(first two mutually exclusive)

All topics ARE and should be considered mutually exclusive. This is more of a Poll to show popularity of balance ideas, not necessarily "if A then not B, but defintely C if not A" etc. The devs are I'm sure aware that each topic is stand alone and do not necessarily come with the stipulations of and/or, as I'm sure they have the capacity to decide (and is ultimately their decision of) whats too much or too little.

Perhaps I'll make that more clear next time I update.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
Deceiver_0
Ascension
Join Date 04/2008
+4
Reply #124 July 6, 2009 9:14:46 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Darvin why would we talk about the subverter? its still arguable the most powerful support cruiser in the game whether it can outrange repulse or not...

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
Deceiver_0
Diplominator
Join Date 02/2008
0
Reply #125 July 6, 2009 10:23:08 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Does the Overseer's passive phase jump scanning ability do anything if you have the third tier of phase jump detection (the eight-lab one that lets you see everything that jumps anywhere)? If not...that might be worth looking at. I'm not a fan of abilities that become totally worthless later on, particularly since the phase scanning thing is pretty expensive to begin with.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
23 PagesFirst 3 4 5 6 7  Last
View all recent posts
Mark all posts as read Delete cookies created by the forum Return to Top
Stardock Forums v        Server Load Time:   Page Render Time:
© 2025 Stardock. All rights reserved.
Home News Case Studies Forums