For Sins 1.18 and Entrenchment 1.04
This is a post that I will update regularly to give the DEVS a better idea of what people think should be done to stats in the next patch. This is ONLY for patches, no new ships or elaborate concepts for the next expansion. This is for dealing with peoples’ concerns about balance. If there’s a balance idea you have that’s not on here, post it and I’ll put it up for voting if it seems valid. I love the fact that ICO pays attention to the forums and what people suggest, I’d like to make it easier for them. The idea is to have all ideas posted straight forward and ranked so the DEVS don’t have to sift through pages and pages to find popular ideas. SP and MP players are both welcome to comment. Post yay or nay for any idea you like or dislike (be specific please) or say no fix needed. If you’d like I’ll also insert specific values you may come up with. Some votes will be taken from other threads.
* Topics shoud be considered independent of eachother, vote for each topic as if the Devs were to choose only 1. Yay for fixes that you think would work, nay for fixes that you think won't*
** Now there's an easier way to cast your vote, download the easy entry form, fill it out and then copy and paste your results!**
>> Download The Easy Entry Form <<
REFERENCESSeveral members of the community have taken it upon themselves to run tests to prove imbalances and recommend possible fixes. I would Encourage everyone commenting here to read these and become more informed.Raging Amish's Lums vs Enforcers JJs HC Tests JJs Illum Tests
Deceivers Subjugator thread Deceivers Cap Carrier thread
RAGING AMISH's Balance MOD
Game BugsThese need to be addressed before anything else. The following is a compiled list of all known game bugs. Thanks to Pawelo for helping me compile and test these. If you can think of any others that aren't on here leave a comment to let me know.-Embargo Level 2 and 3 do not stop cargo ships.-Phasic Trap Research level 2 does not do anything.-Magnetize does not interrupt channeled abilities-Disruptive Strikes does not work on pulse beams-Allegiance through wormholes is flawed.-Wrong Sound effects on: Anima Tempest, repair cloud, nanite armor, EMP blast-Infocard errors: Dunov shield restore does not increase mitigation, labs do not speed up build time
-Akkan Colonize ability does not always spawn extractors at lvl2 and lvl3.
-Subverters Disrupt Shields can not target structures with shields-Some musics and Orange Skybox are not used.
SOLANUS ADJUDICATORS
The adjudicator, while it can target multiple structures, just doesnt have the punch its TEC cousin the Ogrovs has and has difficulty handling tight clusters of structures supported by repair bays. Also, without a well functioning healing unit, the poor adjudicator simply cant live long enough in the throws of battle to make a huge difference. We've discussed the changes, now its time to get official votes on them.
Buff the Adjudicator- Change armor type?:
Yay- JuleTron Kitkun N3rull eoncommander
Nay- Dargoon999 Warlord Mike
Reduce supply cost?:
Yay- JuleTron Kitkun Dargoon999 Warlord Mike Darvin3 SivCorp eoncommander
Nay-
Reduce number of firing banks to increase damage per target?:
Yay- Warlord Mike eoncommander
Nay- Kitkun N3rull Dargoon999
Increase damage?:
Nay- Kitkun Dargoon999
Increase shields?:
Yay- JuleTron Kitkun eoncommander
No Fix Needed- Ryat Extremor
MINES
These little critters were introduced in Entrenchment and have been seldom used. They are purely defensive, extremely expensive, and a huge gamble to put your money in. There's been much discussion on possible fixes, but now its time for an official vote, so here you go.
Buff Mines Increase damage? Yay- Juletron Whiskey144 SivCorp Extremor Nay- EadTaes Raging Amish Ovi_187 Kitkun eoncommander Increase damage radius? Yay- Top Vasari Whiskey144 EadTaes Warlord Mike Ovi_187 SivCorp Extremor eoncommander Nay- Juletron N3rull Raging Amish Kitkun Increase activation radius? Yay- Warlord Mike eoncommander Nay- EadTaes JuleTron N3rull Raging Amish Ovi_187 Kitkun Extremor Increase mines per deployment? Yay- eoncommander Nay- EadTaes N3rull Raging Amish Warlord Mike Ovi_187 Kitkun Extremor Increase deployment spread? Yay- Warlord Mike Extremor eoncommander Nay- Juletron EadTaes N3rull Raging Amish Ovi_187 Kitkun Decrease cost? Yay- Juletron Mindseye(25%) EadTaes(25%) Dargoon999 Whiskey144 N3rull(20%) Warlord Mike Ovi_187 Kitkun Extremor Nay- Raging Amish eoncommander Reduce build time for Proximity Mines(TEC)? Yay- Juletron Whiskey144 EadTaes Raging Amish Warlord Mike Ovi_187 Kitkun Extremor Nay- Increase duration of Gravity Mines(Vasari)? Yay- Juletron N3rull Mindseye Ovi_187 Kitkun Extremor Nay- EadTaes Raging Amish Fix homming mines AI to return to original deployment location(Advent)? Yay- JuleTron EadTaes N3rull Mindseye Warlord Mike Ovi_187 SivCorp Kitkun Extremor eoncommander Nay- Raging Amish
Make Gravity Mines an upgrade to existing mines?
Yay- N3rull Juletron Dargoon999 Ue-Carbon Deceiver_0 Mindseye Kitkun Extremor
Nay- EadTaes Raging Amish
No fix needed-
SIEGE FRIGATESCosting more than most Heavy Cruisers, one would expect siege frigates to be able to handle a simple task like bombing a planet to oblivion, but with their super thin and weak hulls they certainly aren't worth the cost, and with Entrenchments bombardment protection on starbases, siege frigates find themselves in the obsolete unit pile. Personally I think they should be tough as nails since all they do is bomb planets and cost loads of resources and precious supply. With a decent buff these units could be the terror they once were and possibly bring back some of the planetary defense tech that fell from use after their nerf. (planetary shielding anyone?) Buff Siege Frigates Increase Hp/shields/armor?: Yay- Deceiver_0(Hp) Volt_Cruelerz Darvin3 Ryat EadTaes Dargoon999(10%) N3rull(+nerf) Kitkun eoncommander Nay- Soasertsus Cykur Mindseye Raging Amish Ascension Howdidudothat Ovi_187 Sobric Warlord Mike Extremor Change armor type (currently light)?: Yay- Deceiver_0(v. heavy) Soasertsus(v. heavy) Volt_Cruelerz(heavy/v.heavy) EadTaes (heavy) Dargoon999(heavy) N3rull(heavy) SivCorp Extremor(heavy) eoncommander Nay- Darvin3 Cykur Ryat Mindseye Raging Amish Ascension Howdidudothat Ovi_187 Sobric Warlord Mike Kitkun Decrease Resource cost?: Yay- Soasertsus Darvin3 EadTaes Howdidudothat Sobric Extremor Nay- Volt_Cruelerz Cykur Ryat Dargoon999 Mindseye Raging Amish Ascension Ovi_187 Warlord Mike Kitkun Decrease Supply Cost?: Yay- Soasertsus(6) Darvin3 Cykur Ryat(10) EadTaes(10) Dargoon999(10) Mindseye Howdidudothat Raging Amish(12) Ascension(12) Ovi_187 mbaron888(8) Sobric Warlord Mike SivCorp Kitkun eoncommander Nay- Volt_Cruelerz Extremor Increase Bombardment damage?: Yay- Volt_Cruelerz Dargoon999(20%) Warlord Mike Extremor Nay- Soasertsus Darvin3 Cykur Ryat EadTaes Mindseye Raging Amish Ascension Howdidudothat Ovi_187 Sobric SivCorp Kitkun eoncommander
Make TEC Heavy Fallout Active (currently passive)?: Yay- Deceiver_0 Soasertsus Volt_Cruelerz Darvin3 Cykur Ryat Dargoon999 N3rull Mindseye Raging Amish Ovi_187 Sobric Warlord Mike Kitkun Nay- EadTaes Ascension Howdidudothat Reduce Heavy Fallout effect time (currently 6 minutes)?: Yay- Darvin3 Sobric Warlord Mike Nay- Soasertsus Volt_Cruelerz Cykur Ryat EadTaes Dargoon999 Mindseye Raging Amish Ascension Howdidudothat Ovi_187 Kitkun Reduce Xp value (currently 65xp)?: Yay- Soasertsus Darvin3(40) Cykur EadTaes(15) Dargoon999(30) Ovi_187 Kitkun Nay- Volt_Cruelerz Ryat Mindseye Raging Amish Ascension Howdidudothat Sobric Warlord Mike Apply fixes to siege militia?: Yay- Deceiver_0 Soasertsus Volt_Cruelerz Darvin3 EadTaes Dargoon999 Raging Amish Ovi_187 Sobric Warlord Mike Kitkun Extremor Nay- Ryat Ascension Howdidudothat Apply fixes to siege pirates?: Yay- Darvin3 EadTaes Dargoon999 Raging Amish Ovi_187 Warlord Mike Kitkun Extremor Nay- Soasertsus Volt_Cruelerz Ryat Ascension Howdidudothat Sobric No Fix Needed-
SEREVUN OVERSEERThe overseer is a powerful, but seldom used ship due to it's current lack of usability. I'd recommend anyone planning on voting on this topic read a few of the replies on page 5, where Ascension and I debated some changes. I've also thrown in a few ideas to make overseers 'Jump Degradation' ability a little more potent for the 100AM and channeling it costs. Buff Serevun Overseers- Increase firing arc of abilities?: Yay- Deceiver_0 JuleTron Volt_Cruelerz Ascension Soasertsus milo896 Howdidudothat lifekatana N3rull Mindseye Cykur EadTaes Raging Amish Ovi_187 Warlord Mike Kitkun Extremor eoncommander Nay- Pbhead Sobric Increase turn rate?: Yay- Deceiver_0 JuleTron Volt_Cruelerz Ascension Soasertsus milo896 Howdidudothat lifekatana N3rull Mindseye Pbhead Raging Amish Ovi_187 Warlord Mike Kitkun Extremor eoncommander Nay- EadTaes Sobric SivCorp Make 'Reactive nanite armor' omnidirectional (360 degrees)?: Yay- Ascension Raging Amish Sobric Warlord Mike SivCorp Extremor
Nay- Deceiver_0 Soasertsus Darvin3 milo896 Howdidudothat lifekatana N3rull Mindseye Pbhead EadTaes Ovi_187 Kitkun eoncommander Increase reduction of jump speed for 'Jump Degradation'?: Yay- milo896 Howdidudothat Mindseye EadTaes Ovi_187 Sobric Kitkun Extremor eoncommander Nay- Soasertsus lifekatana Pbhead Raging Amish Allow 'Jump Degradation' to do a damage % to incoming enemy vessels' hulls?: Yay- Deceiver_0 (5-10%) Soasertsus(20%AM) Darvin3 milo896 N3rull(speed reduction) Kitkun eoncommander Nay- Howdidudothat lifekatana Mindseye Pbhead EadTaes Raging Amish Ovi_187 Sobric Extremor
Allow 'Jump Degradation' to disable passive regeneration?
Yay- Raging Amish Deceiver_0 Diplominator Juletron Sobric Extremor
Nay- Ovi_187 Howdidudothat Cykur Kitkun No Fix Needed-SKAROVAS ENFORCERThe relative weakness of the Enforcer has recently been brought to the forums attention (thanks JohnJames). With their higher resource cost, higher supply cost and more expensive upgrades, enforcers are unfortunately left in the dust by their counterparts. Many speculate that their extra ability (reintegration) is the cause for such a skewed balance, while others agree that reintegration lacks the power enforcers deserve. The following are some fixes that have been proposed. Personally, I think the Vasari should get a little more for what they pay for. Buff Skarovas Enforcers- Decrease Resource Cost?: Yay- Ascension EadTaes Sobric Nay- Deceiver_0 Soasertsus Volt_Cruelerz lifekatana Howdidudothat Darvin3 Mindseye Raging Amish Ovi_187 Warlord Mike Kitkun Extremor eoncommander Decrease Supply Cost?: Yay- Soasertsus Sobric Extremor Nay- Deceiver_0 Volt_Cruelerz lifekatana Howdidudothat Darvin3 Mindseye EadTaes Raging Amish Ovi_187 Kitkun eoncommander Increase hp/shields/armor?: Yay- Deceiver_0 Darvin3 EadTaes(armor+1) Raging Amish SivCorp Kitkun eoncommander Nay- Volt_Cruelerz Soasertsus lifekatana Howdidudothat Mindseye Ovi_187 Sobric Extremor Increase Damage?: Yay- Deceiver_0 Soasertsus Ascension JuleTron Darvin3 Howdidudothat Mindseye Cykur EadTaes(22) Raging Amish(21.6) Ovi_187 Sobric Warlord Mike SivCorp Kitkun eoncommander Nay- Volt_Cruelerz lifekatana Extremor Cheaper damage upgrades?:
Yay- Deceiver_0 Volt_cruelerz Top Vasari Ascension DesConnor Raging Amish N3rull lifekatana JuleTron Darvin3 Howdidudothat Mindseye EadTaes Sobric Warlord Mike SivCorp Extremor eoncommander Nay- Soasertsus Ovi_187 Kitkun Higher reintegration rate?: Yay- Deceiver_0 Volt_cruelerz Top Vasari Soasertsus N3rull lifekatana JuleTron Darvin3 Howdidudothat Ovi_187 Sobric Kitkun Nay- Mindseye EadTaes Raging Amish Extremor No Fix Needed- PbheadDOMINA SUBJUGATORSThe domina has been an a lot of peoples (f spending money on that) list for sometime. I tested and observed the subjugator while I was examining carrier caps and wrote a report on them as well. Here's some fixes that have been proposed for the Domina as well as the Stilakus Subverter (whose destiny is quite intertwined with the domina). I'll be putting the Subverter question under the REPULSE section as it has to do more as a counter to it. Buff Domina Subjugators- Increase firing arc of abilities?:
Yay- Deceiver_0 Mindseye Darvin3 Gugabalog Cykur(heal only) Raging Amish Ovi_187 Sobric Warlord Mike SivCorp Kitkun eoncommander Nay- EadTaes lifekatana Pbhead Increase turn rate?: Yay- Deceiver_0 Darvin3 Gugabalog Mindseye Pbhead Raging Amish Ovi_187 Sobric Warlord Mike Kitkun eoncommander Nay- EadTaes lifekatana Make abilities AOE?: Yay- Warlord Mike SivCorp eoncommander Nay- Deceiver_0 EadTaes Gugabalog Darvin3 lifekatana Mindseye Pbhead Raging Amish Ovi_187 Sobric Kitkun Remove channeling from abilities?: Yay- EadTaes Gugabalog lifekatana Raging Amish Sobric Warlord Mike Kitkun Nay- Deceiver_0 Darvin3 Mindseye Pbhead Ovi_187 SivCorp eoncommander Fix Targeting AI (on all abilities for all races) to prevent wasteful use?: Yay- Deceiver_0 Darvin3 EadTaes Gugabalog Soasertsus lifekatana Mindseye Pbhead Cykur Raging Amish Ovi_187 Sobric Warlord Mike SivCorp Kitkun eoncommander
Nay- Pbhead No Fix Needed-CARRIER CLASS CAPITAL SHIPSI've noticed people use Carrier Caps generally for 1 ability, and not for the strikecraft and SC bonuses they offer. Weaker than most other classes, they are sparse and somewhat unthreatening on the battle field. Personally I think they should offer more benefit in the strike craft department than they do now. I've written a detailed report on them, and taken some of the proposed changes from it for this thread. Buff Carrier Caps- Increase Initial Armor? Yay- Deceiver_0 Soasertsus Ryat Howdidudothat Gugabalog Warlord Mike SivCorp Kitkun Nay- Darvin3 -Ue_Carbon mbaron888 Pirate-Jack EadTaes DesConnor Swordsalmon lifekatana Pbhead Raging Amish Ovi_187 Sobric Extremor eoncommander Increase Squadron Capacity? Yay- Deceiver_0 (see thread) Soasertsus Ryat -Ue_Carbon ReadyMan Howdidudothat mbaron888 Pirate-Jack EadTaes DesConnor Mindseye Swordsalmon Gugabalog N3rull lifekatana -aceca- Derek06 Ovi_187 Sobric Warlord Mike SivCorp Kitkun Extremor eoncommander
Nay- Darvin3 Raging Amish Make SC buffs AOE? Yay- EadTaes DesConnor Swordsalmon Gugabalog Derek06 Raging Amish Sobric SivCorp Extremor Nay- Deceiver_0 Soasertsus Ryat Darvin3 -Ue_Carbon Howdidudothat mbaron888 Pirate-Jack lifekatana Pbhead Ovi_187 Kitkun eoncommander Increase additional drones(Adept Drone Anima)? Yay- Deceiver_0 Darvin3 Howdidudothat Mindseye Swordsalmon Gugabalog Derek06 Raging Amish Sobric SivCorp Kitkun Nay- Soasertsus Ryat -Ue_Carbon mbaron888 Pirate-Jack EadTaes DesConnor lifekatana Pbhead Ovi_187 Extremor eoncommander Re-work Scramble Bombers? Yay- Deceiver_0 Soasertsus Ryat Darvin3 -Ue_Carbon Howdidudothat mbaron888 Pirate-Jack EadTaes DesConnor Mindseye Swordsalmon Gugabalog N3rull lifekatana Pbhead Derek06 Raging Amish Ovi_187 Sobric Warlord Mike SivCorp Kitkun Extremor eoncommander Nay- No Fix Needed-LIGHT FRIGATESMost agree that Light Frigates don't scale well. Being limited in their usefulness early game, and becoming almsot complete obsolete late game with Heavy Cruiser research. Many ideas have been thrown around to get light frigates back on the battle field. Buff Light Frigates- Increase Damage?: Yay- TheRezonator Gugabalog Darvin3 -Ue_carbon Howdidudothat JuleTron Pirate-Jack N3rull Ascension Cykur Dargoon999(20%) Raging Amish(Vasari: 12) Ovi_187 SivCorp(10%) Nay- Volt_cruelerz mbaron888 DesConnor lifekatana Pbhead EadTaes Sobric Kitkun Extremor eoncommander Increase Damage bonus to heavy armor type?: Yay- Deceiver_0 TheRezonator Gugabalog -Ue_carbon JuleTron Pirate-Jack Howdidudothat mbaron888 DesConnor(Light) Ascension lifekatana EadTaes Dargoon999 Raging Amish(175%+) Ovi_187 Sobric SivCorp(25%) Kitkun Extremor eoncommander Nay- Volt_cruelerz Pbhead Increase Hp/Shields/Armor?: Yay- Deceiver_0(armor) TheRezonator Gugabalog Darvin3 JuleTron Ascension lifekatana Dargoon999(10%) Ovi_187 Warlord Mike eoncommander Nay- Volt_cruelerz Pirate-Jack Howdidudothat mbaron888 DesConnor Pbhead EadTaes Raging Amish Sobric SivCorp Kitkun Extremor Increase ability range?: Yay- Deceiver_0 TheRezonator Gugabalog Volt_cruelerz -Ue_carbon JuleTron Ascension Eadtaes Dargoon999 Raging Amish Ovi_187 Sobric Kitkun Extremor eoncommander Nay- Howdidudothat mbaron888 DesConnor lifekatana Pbhead Increase firing arc?: Yay- TheRezonator Gugabalog -Ue_carbon JuleTron Pirate-Jack Howdidudothat DesConnor N3rull Ascension Eadtaes Raging Amish Sobric Warlord Mike SivCorp Extremor Nay- Volt_cruelerz mbaron888 lifekatana Pbhead Dargoon999 Ovi_187 Kitkun eoncommander Increase turn speed?: Yay- Darvin3 EadTaes TheRezonator Pirate-Jack ReadyMan Howdidudothat mbaron888 DesConnor Mindseye N3rull Ascension Pbhead Eadtaes Dargoon999 Raging Amish Ovi_187 Sobric Warlord Mike SivCorp Extremor eoncommander Nay- lifekatana Kitkun Tweak Targeting AI to favor support cruisers?: Yay- Deceiver_0 TheRezonator Gugabalog Darvin3 Volt_cruelerz JuleTron Pirate-Jack mbaron888 DesConnor N3rull Ascension lifekatana Eadtaes Dargoon999 Raging Amish Ovi_187 Sobric Warlord Mike SivCorp Kitkun Extremor eoncommander Nay- Howdidudothat Pbhead Nerf Counters- Decrease LRF Damage?: Yay- Proletari Darvin3 Azrak_Navarion ReadyMan Howdidudothat Mindseye Ascension Eadtaes Dargoon999(10%) Nay- Deceiver_0 Volt_cruelerz Pirate-Jack mbaron888 DesConnor lifekatana Pbhead Raging Amish Ovi_187 Sobric Warlord Mike Kitkun Extremor eoncommander
Decrease LRF damage bonus to medium armor?
Yay- Deceiver_0(125%) Ovi_187 Howdidudothat Sobric eoncommander
Nay- N3rull Cykur Warlord Mike Kitkun Extremor
Increase LRF resource cost?: Yay- Extremor Nay- Deceiver_0 Pirate-Jack Howdidudothat mbaron888 DesConnor lifekatana Pbhead Eadtaes Dargoon999 Raging Amish Ovi_187 Sobric Warlord Mike Kitkun eoncommander No Fix Needed- Soasertsus dresdaREPULSE:Many have said repulse needs a fix. Personally I agree. Nerf Guardians- Increase AM cost?: Yay- Deceiver_0 Raging Amish crashmatusow Ascension Pirate - Jack Volt_cruelerz Tohron Darvin 3 Top vasari mbaron888 Proletari -Ue_carbon Major Stress Mindseye Azrak_Navarion lbgsloan Gugabalog Soasertsus Howdidudothat JuleTron DesConnor lifekatana -aceca- Derek06 Cykur Ovi_187 Sobric Warlord Mike SivCorp Kitkun Extremor eoncommander Nay- dresda
Increase cooldown rate?
Yay- Raging Amish Deceiver_0 Howdidudothat Kitkun Extremor eoncommander
Nay- Ovi_187 Juletron Sobric Cykur
Decrease AOE?: Yay- Gugabalog -Ue_carbon DesConnor eoncommander Nay- Pirate - Jack Major Stress crashmatusow Mindseye Soasertsus Howdidudothat dresda lifekatana Pbhead Derek06 Raging Amish Ovi_187 Sobric Warlord Mike Kitkun Extremor Increase resource cost?: Yay- Ascension Volt_cruelerz Sobric Extremor Nay- Pirate - Jack Major Stress Soasertsus Mindseye Gugabalog Howdidudothat dresda DesConnor lifekatana Pbhead Derek06 Raging Amish Ovi_187 Warlord Mike Kitkun eoncommander Cause damage to shields?: Yay- EadTaes Volt_cruelerz dresda Nay- Major Stress Mindseye Soasertsus Gugabalog Howdidudothat DesConnor lifekatana Pbhead Derek06 Raging Amish Ovi_187 Sobric Warlord Mike Kitkun Extremor eoncommander Buff Counters- Increase LF ability range?: Yay- Gugabalog TheRezonator Volt_cruelerz Derek06 Raging Amish Sobric SivCorp Kitkun Extremor eoncommander Nay- Pirate - Jack Major Stress Soasertsus Mindseye DesConnor lifekatana Pbhead Ovi_187 No affect to Cap Ships?: Yay- Pirate - Jack Major Stress Volt_cruelerz DesConnor Cykur Warlord Mike SivCorp Kitkun Extremor eoncommander Nay- Mindseye Gugabalog Soasertsus lifekatana Pbhead Derek06 Raging Amish Ovi_187 Sobric Increase Distortion Field (targeting) range?: Yay- Deceiver_0 Soasertsus Sobric Kitkun eoncommander Nay- lifekatana crashmatusow Pbhead Raging Amish Ovi_187 Extremor No Fix Needed-MISSILE BARRAGE:This has been a heated issue for several months. In the most recent patch, the devs made the graphic unique (red missile exhaust?) and extended the duration while reducing dps. Was this enough? Nerf Missile Barrage- Decrease total damage?: Yay- Extremor Nay- mbaron888 Gugabalog TheRezonator Volt_cruelerz -Ue_carbon Howdidudothat DesConnor Derek06 Raging Amish Ovi_187 Sobric Warlord Mike Increase AM cost? Yay- Ascension Ovi_187 Nay- mbaron888 Gugabalog TheRezonator Volt_cruelerz -Ue_carbon Howdidudothat DesConnor Derek06 Raging Amish Sobric Warlord Mike Extremor Decrease AOE? Yay- Tohron mbaron888 Howdidudothat JuleTron DesConnor Sobric Nay- Gugabalog TheRezonator Volt_cruelerz -Ue_carbon Derek06 Raging Amish Ovi_187 Warlord Mike Extremor Buff Counters- Increase range on ability interrupts?: Yay- Tohron TheRezonator Raging Amish Ovi_187 Sobric Extremor Nay- Gugabalog Volt_cruelerz -Ue_carbon Howdidudothat DesConnor LF abilities can target caps?: Yay- Gugabalog TheRezonator Sobric Warlord Mike Nay- Volt_cruelerz -Ue_carbon Howdidudothat DesConnor N3rull Derek06 Raging Amish Ovi_187 Extremor Graphic/Audio Improvement?: Yay- Eadtaes Deceiver_0 Volt_cruelerz Gugabalog TheRezonator -Ue_carbon Howdidudothat N3rull lifekatana Derek06 Cykur Raging Amish Ovi_187 Sobric Warlord Mike SivCorp Kitkun Extremor eoncommander Nay- DesConnor No Fix Needed- Deceiver_0 EadTaes Azrak_Navarion Major Stress Top vasari Soasertsus ReadyMan lifekatana SivCorp Kitkun eoncommander CARRIERS:Extensively nerfed in the previous 2 patches, carriers have lost their place as a hard counter to long ranged frigates, as flak frigates can now destroy fighters much faster than they are built, and long ranged frigates can now hunt the carriers themselves down. Buff Carriers- Decrease build penalty?: Yay- Deceiver_0 Ascension crashmatusow Pirate - Jack mbaron888 Volt_cruelerz lbgsloan Gugabalog Top vasari Soasertsus Howdidudothat JuleTron N3rull lifekatana Derek06 Cykur Ovi_187 Sobric Warlord Mike SivCorp Kitkun eoncommander Nay- DesConnor Raging Amish Extremor Increase fighter HP?: Yay- Ascension Mindseye Azrak_Navarion Gugabalog Howdidudothat Derek06 Extremor Nay- Pirate - Jack mbaron888 Volt_cruelerz Soasertsus DesConnor lifekatana Raging Amish Ovi_187 Sobric Warlord Mike SivCorp Kitkun Reduce movement penalty?: Yay- Tohron Soasertsus Raging Amish mbaron888 Gugabalog Howdidudothat JuleTron ReadyMan DesConnor Derek06 Sobric SivCorp Extremor Nay- Pirate - Jack crashmatusow lifekatana Cykur Deceiver_0 Ovi_187 Kitkun Nerf Counters- Reduce Flak rate of fire?: Yay- EadTaes Warlord Mike eoncommander Nay- Mindseye Gugabalog Volt_cruelerz Soasertsus Howdidudothat DesConnor lifekatana Raging Amish Ovi_187 Sobric Kitkun Extremor No Fix Needed- Major Stress -Ue_carbon PbheadSCOUTS:With the recent nerf to carriers, scouts have come to the forefront as a decent anti-lrf ship, and with their new found popularity some changes have been suggested. Nerf Scouts- Reduce damage buff against light armor?: Yay- Volt_cruelerz Ovi_187 Nay- Deceiver_0 Ascension Soasertsus Gugabalog Howdidudothat Derek06 Raging Amish Sobric Warlord Mike Kitkun Extremor Increase scout supply requirement?: Yay- Nay- Ascension Pirate - Jack Volt_cruelerz Gugabalog TheRezonator Soasertsus Howdidudothat Derek06 Raging Amish Ovi_187 Sobric Warlord Mike Kitkun Extremor
Increase resource cost?: Yay- Nay- Ascension Pirate - Jack Volt_cruelerz Gugabalog TheRezonator Soasertsus Howdidudothat Derek06 Raging Amish Ovi_187 Sobric Warlord Mike Kitkun Extremor Buff Vasari Scouts- Increase Hp/Shields?: Yay- Deceiver_0 Raging Amish Volt_cruelerz Ascension Pirate - Jack Soasertsus Mindseye TheRezonator Howdidudothat Derek06 Sobric Warlord Mike SivCorp Kitkun Dargoon999 Extremor Nay- Gugabalog Ovi_187 Increase damage?: Yay- Ascension Raging Amish Volt_cruelerz Gugabalog TheRezonator Soasertsus Howdidudothat Derek06 Cykur(+.5dps) Ovi_187 Sobric Warlord Mike SivCorp Kitkun Dargoon999 Nay- Extremor No Fix Needed- EadTaes mbaron888 JuleTron Major Stress -Ue_carbon ReadyMan DesConnor lifekatana Pbhead eoncommanderILLUMINATORS:The relative strength of illuminators has been under debate for some time, and many fixes have been proposed, here are a few, let me know if you’ve got others. I've done my own research, and have posted my findings. Nerf Illuminators- Increase resource cost?: Yay- Ascension Volt_cruelerz Ovi_187 Pirate - Jack EadTaes Top vasari lbgsloan Gugabalog Azrak_Navarion Soasertsus Howdidudothat Derek06 Extremor Nay- Major Stress -Ue_carbon lifekatana Raging Amish Sobric Warlord Mike Kitkun eoncommander Adjust damage division between beams?: Yay- Deceiver_0(33%) mbaron888 -Ue_carbon Gugabalog DesConnor N3rull Ascension Derek06 Raging Amish(33%) Ovi_187 Sobric Warlord Mike eoncommander Nay- Pirate - Jack Major Stress Soasertsus Howdidudothat lifekatana Kitkun Extremor Decrease/adjust the HP/Shields?: Yay- Pirate - Jack (hp only) EadTaes TheRezonator Ascension Gugabalog -Ue_carbon Soasertsus Howdidudothat DesConnor -aceca- Derek06 Cykur Raging Amish(Hp&Armor) Ovi_187 Sobric Warlord Mike SivCorp Kitkun Extremor(450/500) eoncommander Nay- Major Stress Volt_cruelerz Soasertsus lifekatana Increase supply requirement?: Yay- DesConnor Derek06 Kitkun Nay- Pirate - Jack Major Stress Volt_cruelerz Gugabalog Soasertsus Howdidudothat lifekatana Raging Amish Ovi_187 Sobric Warlord Mike Extremor eoncommander Decrease Damage?: Yay- EadTaes Ascension Soasertsus Major Stress Gugabalog ReadyMan DesConnor(Caps only) N3rull lifekatana Ovi_187 Extremor Nay- Volt_cruelerz -Ue_carbon Howdidudothat Derek06 Raging Amish Sobric Warlord Mike Kitkun eoncommander No Fix Needed- mbaron888 Mindseye dresda Pbhead
More to come-
Hoshikos coudl also use a targetign AI tweak. Anoying to see 5 hoshikos use repair bots on 1 target.
ech, why didnt I put that up there.. I thought i did... Well it should be for sure,
yay to targeting ai
Targetign Ai is yes
Im straight yays for buffing Carrier Caps
Straight yays for Subjugator except for AOE Thats a nay
EDIT:Someone sticky this.
Well, to be honest the targeting AI for everything needs help, but given that they have a channeling ability, the Subjugator is the most noticable.
Repulse: no votes
MB:- LF abilities on caps - No- Graphic improvement - Yea
Carriers:- decrease build penalty - Yea
Scouts: no vote
Illums:- Damage division - yea- decrease damage - yea
LRF:- Increase LF damage - yes.- increase firing arc - yes.- increase turn speed - yes.- AI targetting - yes.- Decrease LRF damage - yes, NOT against LFs but against everything else (so LRFs don't kill EVERYTHING efficiently, like they do now; when LRFs stop being an all-killer unit, there will be more sense in getting other stuff)
Carrier caps:- increase squadron capacity - yea.- rework scramble bombers - f... yea.
Subjugators - no vote.
ok for the enforcer i would like cheaper dmg upgrades and increased regeneration rate, and i have no votes for the other enforcer catagories.
right now a hoshinkoe can repair pretty much as fast as the regeneration does for TEC but it does not disable weapons.
Enforcer:
nay
yay
Decrease Resource Cost?:Nay Decrease Supply Cost?:Nay Increase hp/shields/armor?:Nay Increase Damage?:Nay Cheaper damage upgrades?:Yay Higher reintegration rate?:
Yay
Enforcers: Dec resource the resource cost, increase damage to 22. based on fleet supply. cheaper dmg upgs.
Light Frig: yay for all.
LRFS: decrease their dmg bonus VS EVERYTHING
Ilums i vote yay for dmg adjustment as well.
also a side note. the serevun overseer suffers from the same turn rate as the domina. i think if we make its abilities omnidirectional it would help the serevun cause as well because as good a repair unit as it is why should TEC be the only one who get omnidirectional repair abilites? same for the domina as well.
This is a good point Ascension, and I some what agree, but I also fear this may take away the TECs edge late game. I ran some quick tests on overseers and found they heal 250 HP instantly, adds 2 armor for 60 seconds and has a range double that of hoshikos all for 75AM. Contrary to what the abilities infocard says, the 250HP healed is permanent (unless of course the ship take 250 damage), and can be stacked (since its instant) if the target has taken damage to its hull.If the target has an undamaged hull the ability will not stack, but will boost the maximum hp up 250 points and the ship will self heal up to that new maximum (the new maximum will however deplete after 60 seconds, but the extra health points it gained by healing will remain, leaving the actual Hp higher than the ships maximum).
I would like the overseers nanite armor to be onmidirectional so its easier to use, but if that were to happen it would need a nerf somewhere else, or it would easily become the best healing ability in the game, by A LOT. What do you think?
Not sure if you read this, but mbaron888 did a couple of modded tests playing around with the division of damage between beams in the illum with some interesting results. I recommend everyone take a look, he posted his findings
HERE
Reply #10
I'd like to vote for cheaper wave cannons as well, I agree that they seem inexplicably high on the tech tree given that not many units use them. As Amish pointed this out, you might include him as well?
So far, it looks like everyone really wants that wave cannon upgrade moved down. This will help the enforcer significantly and this weapon is on every cap, thus creating a blanket heavy-ship damage upgrade. I don't think it will make them too powerful, but I think it will definitely help.
- cheaper weapon upgrades - yes - ORALTERNATIVELY - spread damage by half to waves and another weapon type, for example pulse cannon (beam would be pointless while phase missiles would be OP.. or would they?). That way you could partially upgrade the enforcers "by the way" of upgrading a weapon so many other ships use.
- higher reintegration rate - yes - OR make it give ~200ish hit points at the moment of activation. Keep cooldown.
Moving waves down the tree will not impact the game too heavily. Caps use the weapon type, true, but seriously no ship does any serious wave damage except Enforcers (oh, the siege frig shoot waves; ouch ouch). Even the caps do only partially wave damage.
SBs don't shoot waves, strike craft don't, LRFs don't, LFs don't, Flaks don't.Only the enforcer uses waves really.
that can't work though... Frigates can only have one type of weapon...
I know they don't, but every heavy ship in the Vasari fleet does, thus upping it ups the fleet. Wave cannons make up the forward guns of every capital ship. Everyone has caps in their fleets which is why I said blanket
my friend. if TEC has an omnidirectional ability that is CONSTANT and continues to heal even if the unit dies why is it such a big deal that i get 2 armor + 250 health points? im paying more am for it. im paying more for the cruiser as well. it seems only fair to me. not to mention i start off with LESS antimatter i do believe. the hoshis get 300 am to start with. not to mention with culture its nearly IMPOSSIBLE to stop the repair spam. omnidirectional ability seems fair.
A group of Hoshis can still only repair 20 hp a second for 15 seconds for a maximum 300hp on a single unit, where as in 15 seconds a group of overseers (if given omnidirectional ability) could potentially heal about 3750hp on a single unit, from farther away than an illuminator can fire.
I fear that is too powerful. Something in the ability would have to be nerfed to keep the balance, be it cooldown time or AM cost or amount healed. Not by a whole lot, but something.
As for Enforcers, reducing the cost of its weapon upgrades will only serve to shorten the HUGE gap between the power of the enforcer and other HCs. The ship itself needs more than just that to get on the same level.
What everyone is forgetting is that by making all units more or less equal, you take the fun out of the game. I completely agree that Illums should be nerfed, but they must stay stronger than the other LRF. The omnidirection repair is a TEC thing only, and so is the Vasari ability Distortion field. There is nothing like it, and it should stay that way. If don't want to play a communist game. It's okay if the advent LRF is the strongest, and the Vasari HC is the weakest, as long as one race isn't best at everything.
So if this all gets changed, it should only be changed slightly to keep the races unique.
REPULSE:
Increase AM yay. Everything else nay.
MISSILE BARRAGE
Improve graphics yay. Everything else nay.
CARRIERS
Decrease build rate yay. Everything else nay.
SCOUTS:
The perfect example of what i said above. The Vasari scout should not be as strong as everyone else's, because they can take neutrals AND the vasari have extremely tough fighters. The vasari have better counters. If carriers get nerfed, Vasari scouts should stay the way they are.
No fix needed.
ILLUMINATORS:
Another good example. If carriers get stronger, Illums don't need to be nerfed that much. Sure they are too strong, but they have to stay stronger than the other LRF because they cost more and they are a tier 3 research.
Decrease damage yay. Everything else nay.
LIGHT FRIGATES:
I use LF as a hit-the-enemy-at-the-other-side-while-i'm-fighting-with-him-here-ship aside from the anti-support-ship. The HC is the attack ship.
Increase targeting AI, Increase damage against armor type (the HC is good against everything, the LF should be strong against some things --- strong, not pathetic like they are now) and increase shields/hull. Everything else nay.
CARRIER CLASS CAPITAL SHIPS:
Not much to say. They pretty much suck.
Improve Squadron Capacity and rework Scramble Bombers yay. Everything else nay.
DOMINA SUBJUGATORS:
The Advent already have an awesome support cruiser, but if the guardian gets nerfed, the Subjugator should get a buff.
Tweak targeting AI and remove channeling only. (OR you could just buff the ability but keep the channeling. If you add it to the list, I'll say Yay! to that and nay to remove channeling). Everything else nay.
SKAROVAS ENFORCER:
Once again, people don't appreciate the uniqueness (I just invented a new word) of ships. The cool thing about the enforcer is that it can heal itself, but that healing ability is too weak ATM.
Higher Reintegration rate and cheaper damage upgrades yay. Everything else nay.
my friend you seem to forget TEC demobots can completely nerf my repair ability.. powerful or not its tier 4 tech while tecs is 3. not to mention with hoshikos and repair bays you can hit 60 repair a second. our repair cooldown is FAR longer than that of a hoshiko which can pretty much CONSTANTLY REPAIR EVERY SHIP IN THEIR FLEET AND THEMSELVES. vasari have the WEAKEST REPAIR BAYS not to mention at the moment the WORST REPAIRS which come from the skirantra. vasari needs this buff more than you know.
I'm afraid I simply disagree with you Ascension,
but here's what I will do, if 1 other person agrees with you, I'll put the the idea up for a vote. Sound good? Anyone agree with his idea?
I vote nay for reasons stated above (vasari have other abilities. I don't see anyone whining about distortion field, even tough the TEC nor the Advent have an ability like that --- the TEC have great repairs and the advent have the guardian.).
And OMG, the TEC have an ability that interrupts your abilities. Well, that's just clearly OP, because you do not have anything like that.
If the Vasari can get two Enforcers, then for the same cost the TEC can get two kodiaks AND a hoshiko. Reintegrion is inferior to Hoshi repair AND the enforcer cant shoot or move when using it.
However, reintegration is still useful as it stacks with repair bays, repair cloud and reactive nanite armour. Some or all of these abilities combined make a powerful combo.
Reintegration is not bad, bit it still needs a little love. The Enforcer also needs cheaper wave upgrades and higher DPS. Buffing reintegration alone won't solve the issue.
My friend. lets do this logically.
As of now based upon repair bays ALONE we are the weakest from 15 to 30 to potentially 40.
Advent gets their shield restore TEC get their hoshikos. We get our nano blanket on our WEAKEST CAPITAL SHIP.
the current cooldown for hoshikos is less than 10 seconds. if i pay 75 am for a cooldown of 15-20 seconds im thinking thats fair. its tier 4 research man. im always paying more for the use of it.
the hoshiko has a slightly larger sphere of influence over their fleet than serevun overseers. not to mention they are significantly weaker than a hoshiko.... hoshikos get more hull and 1 more inch of armor plating than overseers.
i pay 3 more supply points so when you have.. 20 fleet supply. he can have 5 hoshikos while i only have 2? these numbers dont lie man. go check the chart.
omnidirectional ability would atleast give the overseer a use man. the armor doesnt stack and just because i get 250 dmg per heal doesnt mean i cant lose to FF. if late game im losing 250 hull points in mere seconds. by the time my overseer is able to reheal ive prob lost 500 hull points.
Could you please respond to my arguments instead of repeating yourself?
And the Advent shield restore is pretty useless on fighters adn bombers, while the Vasari's repair cloud also works on Fighters and Bombers. The Advent hull repair SUCKS, they are extremely vulnerable to phase missiles because the Subjugator also sucks, even with the proposed buffs.
The Vasari don't have strong repairs, they have a mass disable ability. Use it, and all those repair ships become useless. No repairs VS no repairs is actually pretty well balanced.
And i lol'd when I read "As of now based upon repair bays ALONE we are the weakest from 15 to 30 to potentially 40."quote button doesn't work on google chrome)
1. NEVER base your opinion on one thing. that's silly. Look at all the abilities, and you see that it's more or less balanced. More or less, because some races can just have more firepower instead of more abilities.
2. Don't use the word "We" if you're not one of them. It makes you very hard to take seriously, as you're most likely very biased if you do that. As someone once said: "Listen to fanboys, but don't take them too serious - they just want their team to be best."
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