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Patch Stat Changes Forum [NEW TOPIC: Adjudicators 8/25/09]!!

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Deceiver_0
N3rull
Join Date 10/2008
+42
Reply #551 August 31, 2009 4:11:16 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

regen bay nanites and skirantra nanites work while the cap is phased out. sure reactive nanites plops a 250 + health down. which gets blasted in seconds. i can heal my cap while you cant touch it. thats a good enough reason for me.
a full ten seconds of both 3/3 skirantra's cloud and regen bay's repair will do (30+15)*10 = 450 hull points. That's less than two overseers can do, instantly, every four seconds, for less antimatter, and requiring two otherwise shitty cap ships leveled to 5 both.
A single overseer repairs 62,5 hit points per second (250 every 4 seconds, ignoring armor bonus). Skirantra does 30HP/sec for 10 seconds. Repair on regen bay does 15. Together they do less than reactive armor.
craaap.

Come on, open your eyes.

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Deceiver_0
Deceiver_0
Join Date 12/2008
+42
Reply #552 August 31, 2009 9:40:45 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Most of the Marauders abilities need an overhaul.

Phase Out Hull should be changed so that sub-light engines aren't disabled. Or it should become an ordinary disabling ability like Ion Bolt.

Distort Gravity is rarely needed, but I can't think of any change except a longer duration or maybe even make it passive.

Subversion should be like Embargo.

The Egg's colonise should give 1/2/3 extra contructors.

I agree with you about POH, removing the disablement of sublight engines could help you get your cap out of harms way, which I feel is intended to be one of the abilities primary functions (as its one of few, or possibly the only ability that can be cast at any unit, regardless of ownership)

Distort Gravity I feel is a fine ability, as I've seen it used to its fullest potential. I witnessed a fellow use it to speed up his undefended carriers as they skirted a well, keeping them well out of reach of their pursuers until reinforcements arrived, and I myself have used it several times to bypass PJI's and get out of the well before an Orkulus came within firing range.

Subversion needs a little tweaking surely, but as its stackable, it can be quite powerful in the right hands. I think this ability is aimed more at TEC, as it weakens their strength in production and can quickly shut down a factory planet pumping out units faster than you can kill them. But like many Cap ship abilities, its highly situational.

The egg's colonize ability im a bit on the fence about. Skilled vasari players use it to take out heavy planetary militia by quickly constructing defensive structures once the egg colonizes the planet. I don't think its effect should be physical like the akkans, but should remain passive like the motherships. Rather, I think the akkan should be brought more inline with the other two, perhaps with (instead of free extractors) an increase to the speed at which planetary upgrades are constructed, giving the TEC a slight boost in early economy (though not as much as the mothership) by reducing the amount of time a planet is suffering from underdevelopement taxes.

 

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Deceiver_0
eoncommander
Join Date 10/2008
+3
Reply #553 August 31, 2009 11:44:43 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

this is great deceiver. now if only the devs would take a peek...

Buff adjucators:
change armor type? YAY
reduce firing banks? YAY
increase damage? YAY
increase shields? YAY

Buff mines:
increase damage? NAY
increase damage radius? YAY
increase activation radius? YAY
increase mines/deployment? YAY
increase deployment spread? YAY
decrease cost? NAY
fixing homing mine's AI? YAY

Buff siege frigates:
increase hp/shields/armor? YAY
change armor type? YAY
decrease supply cost? YAY
increase bombardment damage? NAY

Buff overseers:
increase firing arc? YAY
increase turn rate? YAY
omnidirectional? NAY
increase reduction of jump speed for "Jump Degredation? YAY
allow it to do damage % to incoming ships' hulls? YAY

Buff enforcers:
decrease resource cost? NAY
decrease fleet supply? NAY
increase hp/shields/armor? YAY
increase damage? YAY
cheaper damage upgrades? YAY

Buff subjugators:
increase firing arc on all abilities? YAY
increase turn rate? YAY
make abilities AOE? YAY
remove channeling? NAY
fix targeting AI? YAY

Buff Carrier Caps:
increase initial armor? NAY
increase squadron capacity? YAY
make SC buffs AOE? NAY
increase additional drones? NAY
re-work scramble bombers? YAY

Buff light frigates:
increase damage? NAY
increase damage bonus to heavy armor? YAY
increase hp/shields/armor? YAY
increase ability range? YAY
increase firing arc? NAY
increase turn speed? YAY
tweak targeting AI? YAY
Nerf counters:
decrease lrf damage? NAY
decrease lrf damage bonus to medium armor? YAY
increase resource cost? NAY

Nerf guardians:
increase AM cost? YAY
increase cooldown rate? YAY
decrease AOE? YAY
increase resource cost? NAY
cause damage to shields? NAY
Buff counters:
increase LF ability range? YAY
no affect to cap ships? YAY
increase distortion field range? YAY

Missile barrage:
graphic, audio improvement? YAY
everything else is NAY

Buff carriers:
decrease build penalty? YAY
Nerf counters:
reduce flak rate of fire? YAY

scouts:
no fix needed

Nerf illuminators:
increase resource cost? NAY
adjust damage division between beams? YAY
decrease hp/shields? YAY
increase supply? NAY
decrease damage? NAY

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Deceiver_0
Raging Amish
Join Date 03/2008
+77
Reply #554 September 2, 2009 12:25:13 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

See, Deciever, now here's the wierd thing about the Akkan. Getting mines instantly is actually a pretty signifcant econ boost. I don't think I'd say it's as much as the discounts Advent gets, think about it. Say the ability is adjusted so that it's 1,2, 4  extractors. It takes what, a minute? for an e xtractor to be built? Imagine going straight into a grav well with four mines, but you have a level 5 akkan. You go straight in, and get an instant 2 metal per second boost to your econ.

That's huge. Even just one is a big boost. You don't have to buy the extractor. Your constructor is free to build something else, like say a repair bay. Currently it's an awful ability but if fixed it could be glorious. Who knows, it could bring more to the table than a Marza. Yeah, I said it. If colonize was given 1,2,4 free extractors, the Akkan could bring more impact indirectly with income than the Marza does direclty with Missile Barrage.

Just a thought. I pray the Akkan gets fixed. Currently, with 0,1,2 free extractors, it doesn't even work half the time. I'll leave anyone who reads that to make their own opinion. I could be quite blunt with that one, but I shall not. I'm here to give constructive criticism, however if diplomacy sucks by leaving that out along with the most sensible of the fixes proposed in this thread, I've got no problem tearing the game a new one before I say goodbye.

Oh, for the record, I have this to say about the thread. Some of the proposed changes are absolutely 100% dead-on, but I feel that some are completely unsubstantiated. I feel some of these proposed fixes are purely becuase either people have never used it right themselves or never went up against someone who used them properly. That's just me, but I feel I can back that up. I don't feel like making this post a friggin report, so I'm going to refrain from writin that all out right now, but I'll back it up if you want me to.

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Deceiver_0
Deceiver_0
Join Date 12/2008
+42
Reply #555 September 2, 2009 3:18:00 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Getting mines instantly is actually a pretty signifcant econ boost.
 

I hadnt overlooked that fact, but youre right it is. My problem with it is that, being something physical and not passive, theres too many things that could go wrong to diminish its power. For example, lets say you conquer an enemy gravwell and leave your akkan bombing, while your fleet moves on to the next to wreak some havoc or destroy some production sites before too many reinforcements can be made, but crap, you forgot to destroy all the extractors! Your akkan colonizes, and you dont get some of those free extractors. Bummer. Not saying this would happen all the time, but it could still happen. Also, I get the impression that the ability is a bit dodgy to code (since its never worked quite right, at least since Ive been playing) so changing it to something that better matches the other two could be a possible fix.

Either way, if they fix the ability so that it works, it would be fine. I too am praying for a fix to it.


Oh, for the record, I have this to say about the thread. Some of the proposed changes are absolutely 100% dead-on, but I feel that some are completely unsubstantiated. I feel some of these proposed fixes are purely becuase either people have never used it right themselves or never went up against someone who used them properly. That's just me, but I feel I can back that up. I don't feel like making this post a friggin report, so I'm going to refrain from writin that all out right now, but I'll back it up if you want me to.

I absolutely agree. The idea was that the better fixes would be more popular, and thus stick out by having much, much more green than red, and more green than the others. Im hoping that if the devs look over this, they'll exercise their common sense about it and completely ignore the "completely unsubstantiated" ones, and take a good hard look at the ones that many have voted a big ol' yay for. But as this poll is mostly opinion based, I cant ignore proposals I think are foolish (though I have ignored some that are way, way out there), because it simply wouldnt be fair, but rather I'll debate those topics to hopefully change peoples minds about them. As you can see above there are some proposals with 0 yays, which I plan on removing on the next update.

Feel free to debate anything thats gotten some positive attention that you feel is unsubstantiated, I welcome and encourage it.

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Deceiver_0
Whiskey144
Join Date 06/2009
+58
Reply #556 September 2, 2009 4:35:17 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

it's technically possible to just have an Akkan bombing a planet, and then colonize it AND get the free extractors, as the Akkan's SC can take care of them. They just need a little micro and the Akkan's Colonize NOT SET TO AUTOCAST!

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Deceiver_0
Warlord Mike
Join Date 05/2009
+3
Reply #557 September 2, 2009 9:22:44 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

I have an idea about a solution to fix the Akkan...

When it colonizes planets, it gives 1/2/2 extractors at levels 1/2/3, respectively.

However, at each progressing level, the cost of building civics structures is reduced by, say 20%/30%/40% for the next 4/8/12 minutes (240/480/720 seconds) at those levels, as well.

Alternatively, one could just have the civics reduction cost and call it good, but this is just me thinking out loud, here.

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Deceiver_0
eoncommander
Join Date 10/2008
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Reply #558 September 2, 2009 10:08:39 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Warlord Mike,
reply 557
I have an idea about a solution to fix the Akkan...

When it colonizes planets, it gives 1/2/2 extractors at levels 1/2/3, respectively.

However, at each progressing level, the cost of building civics structures is reduced by, say 20%/30%/40% for the next 4/8/12 minutes (240/480/720 seconds) at those levels, as well.

Alternatively, one could just have the civics reduction cost and call it good, but this is just me thinking out loud, here.

sounds too complicated. remember occam's razor. easier just to do 1/2/4. and the scenario posted by deceiver could be construed as a drawback. this sounds more balanaced

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Deceiver_0
Warlord Mike
Join Date 05/2009
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Reply #559 September 2, 2009 11:03:16 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting eoncommander,
reply 558

Quoting Warlord Mike, reply 557I have an idea about a solution to fix the Akkan...

When it colonizes planets, it gives 1/2/2 extractors at levels 1/2/3, respectively.

However, at each progressing level, the cost of building civics structures is reduced by, say 20%/30%/40% for the next 4/8/12 minutes (240/480/720 seconds) at those levels, as well.

Alternatively, one could just have the civics reduction cost and call it good, but this is just me thinking out loud, here.

sounds too complicated. remember occam's razor. easier just to do 1/2/4. and the scenario posted by deceiver could be construed as a drawback. this sounds more balanaced

The part about the civics reduced sounds more balanced, you mean?

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Deceiver_0
eoncommander
Join Date 10/2008
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Reply #560 September 3, 2009 10:25:21 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

The part about the civics reduced sounds more balanced, you mean?

no, the part with just the free extractors sounds more balanced, and much easier to balance if it is not

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Deceiver_0
Extremor
Join Date 05/2006
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Reply #561 September 3, 2009 10:42:40 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

he part about the civics reduced sounds more balanced, you mean?

 

no, the part with just the free extractors sounds more balanced, and much easier to balance if it is not

Since it can't be the goal to balance the colonize features of Akkan, Mothership and Egg in itselves (**), the desired balance for the Akkan should be giving it a useful colonize ability with an additional feature from the first level. Therefore 1 free extractor at level one would work I guess.

(**) If you would go down to math level and try to balance the Progen colonize ability against the Egg colonize and against the Akkan colonize that would probably be the beginning of a never ending story since neither Akkan nor Egg can compete with the Mothership in terms of colonization. But they don't have to as long as they have some benefit compared to a colonizer frig.

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Deceiver_0
Raging Amish
Join Date 03/2008
+77
Reply #562 September 3, 2009 1:56:50 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

So just to randomly put an off topic subject out there. I just completed a BIG overhaul to my balance mod. Enjoy folks!

https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/360810

There it is folks! Figured I'd mention this here since anyone who reads this post is looking for balance in the game.

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Deceiver_0
Warlord Mike
Join Date 05/2009
+3
Reply #563 September 3, 2009 3:00:31 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Something I just realized about the Akkan's Colonize - the free extractors it gives do NOTHING for Dead Asteroids, while both Progenitor (reduced cost) and Egg (faster build) do.

Since TEC are the only ones who could build civics structures at DAs, the lowered cost of civics structures would make sense, now that I think about it.

If one combined this with the Modular Architecture upgrade, then if a 60% reduction at level 3 is enabled, then they ARE getting extractors gratis.

Advent and Vasari get similar upgrades in their trees (Divination makes it that a Progenitor's Lvl 3 colonize gives free artifact upgrades), and the Vasari can improve their build time by 80% (throw in the extra 20 from the Egg, and speed is therby doubled).

Again, just me thinking out loud, here, but I'd thought I'd mention these observations.

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Deceiver_0
eoncommander
Join Date 10/2008
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Reply #564 September 3, 2009 3:29:44 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Warlord Mike,
reply 563
Something I just realized about the Akkan's Colonize - the free extractors it gives do NOTHING for Dead Asteroids, while both Progenitor (reduced cost) and Egg (faster build) do.

Since TEC are the only ones who could build civics structures at DAs, the lowered cost of civics structures would make sense, now that I think about it.

If one combined this with the Modular Architecture upgrade, then if a 60% reduction at level 3 is enabled, then they ARE getting extractors gratis.

Advent and Vasari get similar upgrades in their trees (Divination makes it that a Progenitor's Lvl 3 colonize gives free artifact upgrades), and the Vasari can improve their build time by 80% (throw in the extra 20 from the Egg, and speed is therby doubled).

Again, just me thinking out loud, here, but I'd thought I'd mention these observations.

those are good points. although, your point about the free extractors is incorrect. i believe the in-game formula for all percentages works like this: 1/(1+x). thus, the 100%discount you see really only makes the new price half of the original. i still prefer the 1/2/4 free extractors, assuming the bugs can be ironed out

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Deceiver_0
Deceiver_0
Join Date 12/2008
+42
Reply #565 September 24, 2009 7:45:06 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

With the Change log posted for the new Patch, this thread has served its purpose. I'd like to take a quick second to thank everyone who posted here for making the thread succesfull in illuminating problems and possible solutions to SOASE's balance issues. Many were taken into account and integrated into the new patch.

That being said lets hold our judgement of the new patch and its features until after its released and we give it a good going over before we dole out additional recommendations. I'll be monitoring the forums closely post patch release and develope a new thread based on our findings (if necessary). However, the scope of this new patch leads me to believe there will be a significantly lower number of balance complaints (as so many here were addressed). Fingers crossed that this is the case.

Again, thanks to everyone.

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Deceiver_0
eoncommander
Join Date 10/2008
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Reply #566 September 24, 2009 9:07:51 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

deceiver, i believe you are the one to be thanked, for putting together this thread and getting the entire community behind it. so thank you

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