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Patch Stat Changes Forum [NEW TOPIC: Adjudicators 8/25/09]!!

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Deceiver_0
N3rull
Join Date 10/2008
+42
Reply #526 August 26, 2009 4:43:45 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Change armor type? Nah. Though I'm curious what it is currently (as well as the Sivuskras and Ogrov's).
lol. That sounded like "I don't know what the problem is nor what the change would do, but don't do it anyway".

Edit: Interesting how you didn't vote for a drop in fleet supplies...
I did not say 'nay'. I said I agree with changing armor (Bombers, lrfs and adjudicators are all different assault choices and should require different defensive measures; as it stands, fighters counter them all) and said I don't want it to change the number of targets (cause it's changing the basic ship's design and making it more like ogrov). I didn't say anything about the other changes - you decide which is best.
Want a supply drop, alright. Want more damage, suit yourself. Want it to be tougher, fine.
Just drop that stupid light armor so this ship actually requires different strategy to counter than any other dedicated structure killer in the game and don't clone the ogrov.

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Deceiver_0
Dargoon999
Join Date 05/2008
+8
Reply #527 August 26, 2009 12:24:01 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting N3rull,
reply 526

Change armor type? Nah. Though I'm curious what it is currently (as well as the Sivuskras and Ogrov's).lol. That sounded like "I don't know what the problem is nor what the change would do, but don't do it anyway".



Edit: Interesting how you didn't vote for a drop in fleet supplies... I did not say 'nay'. I said I agree with changing armor (Bombers, lrfs and adjudicators are all different assault choices and should require different defensive measures; as it stands, fighters counter them all) and said I don't want it to change the number of targets (cause it's changing the basic ship's design and making it more like ogrov). I didn't say anything about the other changes - you decide which is best.
Want a supply drop, alright. Want more damage, suit yourself. Want it to be tougher, fine.
Just drop that stupid light armor so this ship actually requires different strategy to counter than any other dedicated structure killer in the game and don't clone the ogrov.

I agree that a change from light to heavy would be good, but the ogrov and the siege frigates should also receive this change.

Hard counter to Fighters and LRM Frigates: Fighters.

Hard counter to Siege Frigates and Assault Cruisers: Bombers.

 

Deceiver can you please change my vote on the adjudicator. I say YES for a change in armor type from light to heavy. Sorry for any inconvenience.

Edit: wait a minute... bombers only do 50% damage to heavy armor. Bombers would have a hard time taking them out. Siege frigates are fragile but assault cruisers are tougher. Deceiver, NO CHANGES, I still say NO to an armor change.

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Deceiver_0
Raging Amish
Join Date 03/2008
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Reply #528 August 26, 2009 1:51:11 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Bombers get a 50% multiplier against heavy armor, so that doesn't help. If you wanted bombers to counter seige frigates and assault cruisers you would give them very heavy armor. At the moment, it looks like seige frigates do have the wrong armor type. They have light armor, when the in-game info card on the light frigates says that it's supposed to be good against seige frigates.

At the moment, light frigs do anti-heavy. Seige frigs have light armor. Dunno if the devs did this intentionally or not.

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Deceiver_0
N3rull
Join Date 10/2008
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Reply #529 August 26, 2009 2:33:49 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Blah, my head's been screwed. Of course I wanted both assault cruisers and siege frigs to be heavy armored (so LFs hard counter them), not medium.

I must've been been drinking.

This is because I wanted LFs to counter those. That way siege frigs / assault cruisers won't die too easily if they are protected against LFs correctly and will die like flies if left alone. That's just the way it should be!

heavyheavyheavyHEAVEY!

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Deceiver_0
JuleTron
Join Date 06/2008
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Reply #530 August 27, 2009 2:02:18 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

N3rull, when you used to say that assualt cruisers should have medium armour, I thought that you must have some logic behind it, but I didn't really think about it.

In any case, its pointless having two different structure killers if you can counter them the same way (fighters). Its stupid. I've been trying to raise awareness of this issue ever since Entrenchment came out. Only now are people noticing.

Giving seige frigates heavy armour makes sense.

Back when carriers were slightly OP, I made a thread about the underpoweredness of the Akkan's colonise, disintegration and the Subjugator. No one cared about my thread. Now that these issues are raised people actually notice. It seems that when a certain strat works for every race, no-one cares about the other issues.

 

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Deceiver_0
Extremor
Join Date 05/2006
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Reply #531 August 27, 2009 2:04:38 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

 

First of all: All my respects for maintaining that stat changes forum post!

Before I throw in my two cents I suggest another nerf for the guardian to be added to the list:

Repulse could be nerfed by reducing the range (e.g. down to 4000). As I learned its currently 7500 thus outranging ALL possible counter abilities (from LFs, cruisers and Cap ships) and even with more range than most weapons (except LRMs and Assailants). By reducing the range of repulse it increases the chance to

a) counter it

b ) kill the guardians (or at least some of them) before they get in range

 

Here my yays and nays: 

 

Solanus Adjudicators

      Buff Adjudicators

                        Change Armor type?

 

                        Reduce supply cost?

 

                        Reduce # of firing banks to increase damage per target?

 

                        Increase damage?

 

                        Increase shields?

 

      No Fix Needed     Yay

 

 

Mines

 

      Buff Mines

                        Increase damage? yay

 

                        Increase damage radius? yay

 

                        Increase activation radius? nay

 

                        Increase mines per deployment? nay

 

                        Increase deployment spread? yay

 

                        Decrease cost? yay

 

                        Reduce build time for Proximity Mines(TEC)? yay

 

                        Increase duration of Gravity Mines(Vasari)? yay

 

                        Fix homming mines AI to return to original deployment location(Advent)? yay

 

      No fix needed-                       

 

 

Siege Frigates

 

      Buff Siege Frigates

 

                        Increase Hp/shields/armor?: nay

 

                        Change armor type (currently light)?: yay (heavy)

 

                        Decrease Resource cost?: yay

 

                        Decrease Supply Cost?: nay

 

                        Increase Bombardment damage?: yay

 

                        Make TEC Heavy Fallout Active (currently passive)?:

 

                        Reduce Heavy Fallout effect time (currently 6 minutes)?:

 

                        Reduce Xp value (currently 65xp)?:

 

                        Apply fixes to siege militia?: yay

 

                        Apply fixes to siege pirates?: yay

 

 

      No Fix Needed-

 

 

 

 

 

SEREVUN OVERSEER

 

      Buff Serevun Overseers-

 

                         Increase firing arc of abilities?: yay

 

                         Increase turn rate?: yay

 

                         Make 'Reactive nanite armor' omnidirectional (360 degrees)?: yay

 

                         Increase reduction of jump speed for 'Jump Degradation'?: yay

 

                         Allow 'Jump Degradation' to do a damage % to incoming enemy vessels' hulls?: nay

 

                         Allow 'Jump DEgradation' to disable passive regeneration?: yay

 

          No Fix Needed-

 

SKAROVAS ENFORCER

 

           Buff Skarovas Enforcers-

 

                         Decrease Resource Cost?: nay

 

                         Decrease Supply Cost?: yay

 

                         Increase hp/shields/armor?: nay, nay, nay

 

                         Increase Damage?: nay

 

                         Cheaper damage upgrades?: yay

 

                         Higher reintegration rate?: nay

 

           No Fix Needed-

 

DOMINA SUBJUGATORS

 

           Buff Domina Subjugators-

 

                         Increase firing arc of abilities?:

 

                         Increase turn rate?:

 

                         Make abilities AOE?:

 

                         Remove channeling from abilities?:

 

                         Fix Targeting AI (on all abilities for all races) to prevent wasteful use?:

 

           No Fix Needed-

 

CARRIER CLASS CAPITAL SHIPS

 

           Buff Carrier Caps-

 

                        Increase Initial Armor? nay

 

                        Increase Squadron Capacity? yay

 

                        Make SC buffs AOE? yay

 

                        Increase additional drones(Adept Drone Anima)? nay

 

                        Re-work Scramble Bombers? yay

 

 

           No Fix Needed-

 

LIGHT FRIGATES

 

           Buff Light Frigates-

 

                        Increase Damage?: nay

 

                        Increase Damage bonus to armor type?: yay at least 75% vs heavy and very heavy

 

                        Increase Hp/Shields/Armor?: nay

 

                        Increase ability range?: yay

 

                        Increase firing arc?: yay

 

                        Increase turn speed?: yay

 

            Tweak Targeting AI to favor support cruisers?: yay

 

            Nerf Counters-

 

                          Decrease LRF Damage?: nay

 

                          Decrease LRF damage bouns to medium armor?: nay

 

                          Increase resource cost?: yay

 

            No Fix Needed-   

 

REPULSE:

 

            Nerf Guardians-

 

                        Increase AM cost?: yay

 

                        Increase cooldown rate?: yay

 

                        Decrease AOE?: nay

 

                        Increase resource cost?: yay

 

                        Cause damage to shields?: nay

 

             Buff Counters-

 

                        Increase LF ability range?: yay

 

                        No affect to Cap Ships?: yay

 

                        Increase Distortion Field activation range?: nay

 

            No Fix Needed-

 

MISSILE BARRAGE:

 

            Nerf Missile Barrage-

 

                        Decrease total damage?: yay

 

                        Increase AM cost? nay

 

                        Decrease AOE? nay

 

            Buff Counters-

 

                        Increase range on ability interrupts?: yay

 

                        LF abilities can target caps?: nay

 

            Graphic Improvement?: yay

 

 

            No Fix Needed-           

 

CARRIERS:

 

            Buff Carriers-

 

                        Decrease build penalty?: nay

 

                        Increase fighter HP?: yay

 

                        Reduce movement penalty?: yay

 

            Nerf Counters-

 

                        Reduce Flak rate of fire?: nay

 

            No Fix Needed-          

SCOUTS:

 

 

            Nerf Scouts-

 

                        Reduce damage buff against light armor?: nay

 

                        Increase scout supply requirement?: nay

 

                        Increase resource cost?: nay

 

            Buff Vasari Scouts-

 

                        Increase Hp/Shields?: yay

 

                        Increase damage?: nay

 

            No Fix Needed-      

 

ILLUMINATORS:

 

            Nerf Illuminators-

 

                        Increase resource cost?: yay

 

                        Adjust damage division between beams?: nay

 

                        Decrease/adjust the HP/Shields?: yay Hull: 450, SHields 500

 

                        Increase supply requirement?: nay

 

                        Decrease Damage?: yay (15 DPS)

 

            No Fix Needed-       

 

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Deceiver_0
N3rull
Join Date 10/2008
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Reply #532 August 27, 2009 5:02:49 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

N3rull, when you used to say that assualt cruisers should have medium armour, I thought that you must have some logic behind it, but I didn't really think about it.
My logic was behind heavy all the time, but some unknown evil made me type medium.

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Deceiver_0
Ryat
Join Date 06/2006
+429
Reply #533 August 27, 2009 9:58:36 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting N3rull,
reply 532

N3rull, when you used to say that assualt cruisers should have medium armour, I thought that you must have some logic behind it, but I didn't really think about it.

My logic was behind heavy all the time, but some unknown evil made me type medium.

Like me with a damage upgrade for adju

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Deceiver_0
SivCorp
Join Date 02/2009
+42
Reply #534 August 27, 2009 10:55:44 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

I vote slight decrease in supply cost for abjunctors, all else is fine.

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Deceiver_0
EadTaes
Join Date 03/2008
+25
Reply #535 August 28, 2009 7:44:04 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Okay guys lest talk about repulsion again. as some or most of you are probably aware from other threads repulsion currently has a range of 7500 witch means it outranges everything that is supposed to counter, witch is a big problem in the games balance. I found 3 possible solutions.

P.S. : Keep in mind that repulsion in the balance mod has currentl has it AM cost increased from 20 to 40 and it's cooldown increased from 8 to 16 seconds.

1: Boost LF abilities to 8000 but then the abilities can be used ta greater range then their weapons. Doesm't seem very realistic. But capship abilaties will still get outranged by repulse.

2: Nerfs repulsion's to 5000 but then that seems quite small for an AoE abilities and I don't play enought advent to know if the ability would still be usefull to them. Caps will also be in range barely.

3: Do a bit of booth, Bost Lf abilities to 6250 nerf repulse to 5750. Think this might be the best way to do it but it's still sketchy. So caps will be in range others will not.

I don't realy prefer any of those choises since I got beef to pick with all of them. so making a choise is prety difficult so if you cna helpme out I would apreciate it. What I woudl also be very interested in is what other ideas you might have that might help resolve this problem/conflict. As for the problems about cap abilities range I can always increase them but that will mean the balancing of the caps will be a bit mroe complicated then previously thought. So anythign else you have is welcomed.

Just case here is how repulse works and why I don't liekt he flat range decrease. The power of repulsion is stronger the closer you are to the gardian when it is activated. Say if you have a ship at 7000 fromt he gardians and it uses repulse it wont be affected much it will move a bit but not by much maybe 2000 or so. But if you are right next tot he gardians your ship will be hurled quite far away further then the ships at 7000. You migth be hurled 15000 away. So reducing the range to 5000 would mean gardians would have to get realy close to their targets to hurls them any great distance. Also diminishing the range of the abilite seems like it will also diminish it's hurling power.

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Deceiver_0
Whiskey144
Join Date 06/2009
+58
Reply #536 August 28, 2009 8:53:34 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Repulsion- kick it down to 6000. Still a nice round (somewhat) number. Increase Distort Gravity to 8000. Bam. Repulsion counter.

LF Abilities to 6250 is good; the still outrange Repulse (slightly), so they can be useful. DG coule alternately be 7000 instead.

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Deceiver_0
Cykur
Join Date 03/2003
+48
Reply #537 August 28, 2009 9:22:53 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
You have to be careful lowering the range of Repulsion....it actually is of a pretty good benefit to the Illuminators hiding behind the Repulse shield. At least in some fights the Advent player is accidentally pushing you out of range of his own Illuminators....
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Deceiver_0
N3rull
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Reply #538 August 28, 2009 12:25:27 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Repulse should push HCs and LFs so that the illums are out of their range whilst being able to reach them. That's it. It shouldn't outrange other support cruiser or cap abilities.

In fact, this ability would be awesome even if it was restricted to frigates only.

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Deceiver_0
Whiskey144
Join Date 06/2009
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Reply #539 August 28, 2009 2:38:53 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

that's very true. It would be more useful like that.

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Deceiver_0
EadTaes
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Reply #540 August 28, 2009 3:11:59 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Indeed if repulse did nto effect caps , caps could use their abilities in their current existign form you would gain some counters that way.

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Deceiver_0
JuleTron
Join Date 06/2008
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Reply #541 August 29, 2009 11:55:00 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

On a different topic, using Phase Out Hull on a friendly cap ship that is being FFed is a waste of time. This is because the friendly ship is disabled. Why bother when you can use Overseers to save your cap ship from FFing and not disable it?

Using the Maruader in this way is pointless.

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Deceiver_0
Ascension
Join Date 04/2008
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Reply #542 August 30, 2009 1:12:20 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

you are a fool if you really think that. you phase it out. they stop firing at it. even when it comes out. you still repair it. and your enemy just lost an entire salvo of fire.

 

besides..repair nanites still work on the ship if its phased out. useless? i think not.

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Deceiver_0
JuleTron
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Reply #543 August 30, 2009 1:55:24 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

you phase it out. they stop firing at it. even when it comes out. you still repair it. and your enemy just lost an entire salvo of fire.

Exactly. You still need to repair it afterwards. Overseers do it while saving your cap ship. Overseers allow your cap ship to continue to fight and/or flee. With Overseers, the enemy may waste MANY salvos of fire, not just one.

With Phase Out hull, your cap ship is still stuck in that bad position. You save your cap ship for a few seconds, but its trapped. Of what worth is that?

repair nanites still work on the ship if its phased out. useless? i think not.

No they don't. Even if they did, you would need TWO different abilities to get the same effect as a single ability (reactive nanite armour).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Deceiver_0
N3rull
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Reply #544 August 30, 2009 3:26:13 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Ascension,
reply 542
you are a fool if you really think that. you phase it out. they stop firing at it. even when it comes out. you still repair it. and your enemy just lost an entire salvo of fire.

 

besides..repair nanites still work on the ship if its phased out. useless? i think not.
I thought just like you do about 10 months ago. I tested the marauder thoroughly and my conclusions are:
It all looks cool on paper, but in battle, it's just a waste of time.

So you pop your cap out the battle for 8 seconds, the enemy wipes a few ships of yours in that time, the cap returns. The enemy focuses it again, you phase it out....

... what is the f..kin point of having a cap ship around if you just intentionally keep it out of battle ALL the time? It won't even regenerate antimatter in that time.

It truly is meh.

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Deceiver_0
Deceiver_0
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Reply #545 August 30, 2009 3:38:29 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

I agree with n3rull and Juletron here. Phasing out your own cap ship only serves to delay the inevitable. If your ship could move while phased out, then it would certainly be worth while. BUt as it can't, then its like N3rull said, you may as well just not have a cap ship there. POH is definitely a weak and mostly useless ability (with exception of disabling channeled abilites), compared to anything else that has similar effects, it just blows.

 

Also, Repulse should certainly not affect caps, so long as there is no other support cruiser that can disable Cap ships and for good reason. There are no frigate/cruiser abilities that can hold a Cap ship in place, except repulse. That in its self should tell you something about its balance.

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Deceiver_0
Ascension
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Reply #546 August 30, 2009 6:36:37 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

regen bay nanites and skirantra nanites work while the cap is phased out. sure reactive nanites plops a 250 + health down. which gets blasted in seconds. i can heal my cap while you cant touch it. thats a good enough reason for me.

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Deceiver_0
Whiskey144
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Reply #547 August 30, 2009 8:29:54 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

no; Vas Repair platform and the Skirantra's Repair Cloud do not work on a phased-out vessel. The target filters specifies what it can target, and what 'space' it the target can be in for the ability to be applied to the target. On both of the above mentioned, the target filter for space just has 'Normal', no 'Phase'.

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Deceiver_0
Deceiver_0
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Reply #548 August 31, 2009 3:18:16 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Thinking about starting a thread like this one about overhauling a few cap ship abilities, such as scramble bombers, akkan colonize, etc. Any suggestions on others that definitely need some love?

 

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Deceiver_0
JuleTron
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Reply #549 August 31, 2009 4:02:37 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Most of the Marauders abilities need an overhaul.

Phase Out Hull should be changed so that sub-light engines aren't disabled. Or it should become an ordinary disabling ability like Ion Bolt.

Distort Gravity is rarely needed, but I can't think of any change except a longer duration or maybe even make it passive.

Subversion should be like Embargo.

The Egg's colonise should give 1/2/3 extra contructors.

 

 

 

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Deceiver_0
N3rull
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Reply #550 August 31, 2009 4:07:04 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

scramble bombers
as kitkun wrote - KILL THIS ABILITY.

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