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Patch Stat Changes Forum [NEW TOPIC: Adjudicators 8/25/09]!!

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Deceiver_0
N3rull
Join Date 10/2008
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Reply #501 August 23, 2009 9:22:22 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

A simpler solution may be to give the Subverter more hull/shield points.
I'm not sure if this is the right way to go. Even if they had five times the hit points, they would still have minimal chance of surviving once the 30 HCs right in front of them start shooting again. Besides, the support cruisers are meant to be somewhat squishy - they are powerful ships that aid indirectly, not massive combat vessels like HCs. They should be a gamble for the enemy - kill us instead of the heavy hitters or else our abilities will screw you up. We don't fight, but our brethren fight better with us around. Or you fight worse.

I truly believe the only thing wrong about distortion field is that,after using it, the poor subverter is left in a position where a battlecruiser might have trouble surviving.
The distortion field already causes the subverter to "jump" forward as it is used. It might as well cause it to return to the previous position (jump back the same distance) afterwards. Same thing, unless there's some hardcoded script that prevents the game engine from moving the ships backwards. I don't think there is, cause if you order a construction of a SB in the middle of your fleet, the other ships are 'teleported' (pushed immediately) in every direction to make room.

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Deceiver_0
N3rull
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Reply #502 August 23, 2009 10:44:27 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Question - doesn't it piss you off that a colony cap can colonize 10 planets over 15 minutes, each guarded by 10 frigates of all kinds, yet never having to kill anything other than krosovs?? I think it's stupid and makes such retarded colonize rushing the only really efficient and viable tactic if you're not being fed.

It pretty much takes away all thinking out of the first 10 minutes of a Quick Start game.

I believe this too could use addressing while we're at balancing the game.

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Deceiver_0
Deceiver_0
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Reply #503 August 23, 2009 12:15:38 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Im afraid I disagree with you N3rull. The only time subverters get annihilated by enemy fleets when they jump and disable is when theres nothing else for them to shoot at once the distortion field falls. If youve got your fleet right there, then there isnt a problem. Distortion field is really a 1 time use thing any way, and if you really have problems keeping them alive for more than one use, then practice stringing them together, ie use 1, 18 seconds alter use another and move the first to safety, etc etc. There has to be a downside to being able to freeze up an entire fleet with 1 unit, and that downside is putting that unit in harms way. If your smart, its not hard to keep those little suckers alive.

I think the big reason they arent used as much is that disortion field is realy high on the tech tree, so in any game involving people rushing other people, its not likely it will go on long enough for this ability to get a lot of use.

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Deceiver_0
N3rull
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Reply #504 August 23, 2009 4:19:00 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

The radius of the Distortion field is not so imba to knock out a whole fleet. There usually is some of the enemy fleet left unaffected, half of it more often than not. I'm ok with the subverter being there, with its ass right between a rock and a hard place, as it channels the field, even though any thinking player will ff the subverter and it's gone. Only that after it's done channeling, it doesn't deserve to be stuck with its retarded turn rate, retarded acceleration and speed and durability, with its nose facing the enemy guns and no reverse gear available.
Even the AI is hardly ever throwing its ships in a ball tight enough to be fully caught by the subverter.

Well, I guess the Distortion Field change is not anywhere near priority one. If the Overseer gets any buff to the nanite armor, I suppose it won't be too hard to save those poor subverters.

SHIELD DISRUPTION not working on starbases while Cielo's designate DOES is much more important IMO.
Please add it to the bugs list.

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Deceiver_0
Deceiver_0
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Reply #505 August 23, 2009 4:54:20 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

SHIELD DISRUPTION not working on starbases while Cielo's designate DOES is much more important IMO.
Please add it to the bugs list.

That I am aware of and will go on the list.

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Deceiver_0
JuleTron
Join Date 06/2008
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Reply #506 August 25, 2009 2:53:04 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

For Starfish, I say change armour type, increase shields and reduce fleet supply. Not sure about other changes.

As I said earlier, buffing Overseers will increase the survivability of Subverters. They need no change other then the SB targeting thing.

 

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Deceiver_0
Deceiver_0
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Reply #507 August 25, 2009 2:53:06 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Updated

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Kitkun
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Reply #508 August 25, 2009 3:30:49 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Adju:

Yay

Yay

Nay

Nay

Yay

 

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Deceiver_0
N3rull
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Reply #509 August 25, 2009 4:52:52 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

My only vote here:

Reduce number of firing banks to increase damage per target?:       Nay

Doing this will defeat th point of adjudicator and turn it into a weaker ogrov.
I say neither yay or nay for other changes - you decide which is better. Just don't clone the Ogrov.

edit. - of course yay to armor change (medium imo, or heavy).

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Deceiver_0
Ryat
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Reply #510 August 25, 2009 5:02:59 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

I say yay for a slight damage increase

a compentently built TEC defense zone can easily overcome the damge that 10 to 20 starfish can dole out

nay for all the rest

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Deceiver_0
N3rull
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Reply #511 August 25, 2009 5:30:59 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

a compentently built TEC defense zone can easily overcome the damge that 10 to 20 starfish can dole out
You must have been drinking.
2-3 starfish, maybe. 5, hardly. 20 would wipe a fully upgraded starbases in below one minute and any other structure in range in below 10 seconds. The problem is that starfish are too expensive of a gamble to get instead of good ol' bomber spam. Fighters wipe them too easily.

OH and of course - yay to change armor type to medium (preferably, could be heavy). That's a no brainer imo.

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Dargoon999
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Reply #512 August 25, 2009 5:31:10 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Sol. Adju.

No to all,

except YES for a decrease in supply cost from 18 to 12.

Right now its just easier/smarter to go for a carrier (20 supply cost) with 3 bomber squadrons. Dropping the supplies from 18 to 12 would certainly make this ship a LOT more desirable.

Deceiver, I'd like to take this time to add my vote for the Vasari scout. This thing is weak. Buff Damage/Hull/Shields by 25%.

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Ryat
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Reply #513 August 25, 2009 5:56:19 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting N3rull,
reply 511

a compentently built TEC defense zone can easily overcome the damge that 10 to 20 starfish can dole outYou must have been drinking.
2-3 starfish, maybe. 5, hardly. 20 would wipe a fully upgraded starbases in below one minute and any other structure in range in below 10 seconds. The problem is that starfish are too expensive of a gamble to get instead of good ol' bomber spam. Fighters wipe them too easily.


OH and of course - yay to change armor type to medium (preferably, could be heavy). That's a no brainer imo.

true now that I think about it, I normally now play with mods and this seriously increases the survivalblity of SBs and other defenses

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Deceiver_0
N3rull
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Reply #514 August 25, 2009 6:19:48 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

 yeah, nothing like commenting the balance of one game based on your experience with another.

Interesting how neither of you wanted to change the armor type.
I suggest you read some of the earlier duscussion on that topic and change your vote there, as this change is simply needed - light armor makes there guys as squishy as lrfs against fighters, and with their price and supply cost it just sux. Moreover, bombers too have light armor, which makes fighters the number one omnipotent anti-assault weapon (they kill bombers, lrfs, assault cruisers... nonsense, where's the strategy here?).

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Ryat
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Reply #515 August 25, 2009 6:30:00 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

I usually can keep them apart

oh well no one is perfect

and I did pay attention to the earlier discussion

decision is now

change nothing

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Deceiver_0
Deceiver_0
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Reply #516 August 25, 2009 8:36:08 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

change nothing

Im not quite clear on what youve voted for ryat, care to clarify?

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Deceiver_0
N3rull
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Reply #517 August 25, 2009 8:41:28 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Im not quite clear on what youve voted for ryat, care to clarify?

I say yay for a slight damage increase

a compentently built TEC defense zone can easily overcome the damge that 10 to 20 starfish can dole out

nay for all the rest

edit.

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Deceiver_0
Ryat
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Reply #518 August 25, 2009 8:42:40 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Deceiver_0,
reply 516

change nothing


Im not quite clear on what youve voted for ryat, care to clarify?

after some reconsideration of my mixup I say change nothing

sorry about the misunderstanding

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Dargoon999
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Reply #519 August 25, 2009 8:49:04 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting N3rull,
reply 514
 yeah, nothing like commenting the balance of one game based on your experience with another.

Interesting how neither of you wanted to change the armor type.
I suggest you read some of the earlier duscussion on that topic and change your vote there, as this change is simply needed - light armor makes there guys as squishy as lrfs against fighters, and with their price and supply cost it just sux. Moreover, bombers too have light armor, which makes fighters the number one omnipotent anti-assault weapon (they kill bombers, lrfs, assault cruisers... nonsense, where's the strategy here?).

Nerull, I understand completely why the change from light to heavy armor would be good, but I would prefer to see a major drop in fleet supplies before a change in armor type. If no changes or only a small drop is made to the fleet supplies its still gonna be better to just go for a carrier. Thats why I recommend a drop from 18 to 12.

12 supplies for adju.

20 supplies for carrier.

Now you have an interesting strategic choice to make, dont you think?

Edit: Interesting how you didn't vote for a drop in fleet supplies...

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Deceiver_0
Ryat
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Reply #520 August 25, 2009 9:02:43 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

personally considering how easy it is to counter fighters as well as how many fighters you can put in a gw without a fleet I dont think that the adju need an armor change

and if you do have a fleet there that increases the fighter count and as ship types beyond carrier then the adju are toast anyway because any intelligent commander would target them first and let the rest die upon the starbase and other defenses

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Warlord Mike
Join Date 05/2009
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Reply #521 August 25, 2009 9:25:20 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Ah, the Adjudicator is up at last.

Input:

Increase damage? VERY slightly, if at all (5% max).

Reduce Supply Cost?  Yes - down to, say, 12

Reduce number of firing banks to increase damage per target?  I actually made an interesting post about it earlier - it goes something like this:

  • 5 structures in range: all cannons target one structure each
  • 4 structures: 3 have their own targets, 2 focus on the fourth
  • 3 structures: 2 focus on one target, 2 on another, one on the third target.
  • 2 structures: 3 focus on one target, 2 focus on another
  • 1 structure: All 5 target the enemy structure

So, in short, yes, sort of.   I'd request you made a note of my suggestion, if it's not too much to ask.

Change armor type?  Nah.  Though I'm curious what it is currently (as well as the Sivuskras and Ogrov's).

Increase Shields?  Leave 'em as is, I feel.

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Dargoon999
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Reply #522 August 25, 2009 9:39:26 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Assault cruisers (ogrov/adju) have light armor. If I'm not mistaken, Ruiners are support cruisers (heavy armor), please correct me if I'm wrong.

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Warlord Mike
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Reply #523 August 25, 2009 10:42:16 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Ah, thanks muchly, Dargoon.  Now I have to update ze wiki.

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JuleTron
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Reply #524 August 26, 2009 2:57:13 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Change armor type? Nah. Though I'm curious what it is currently (as well as the Sivuskras and Ogrov's).

Ogrovs and Starfish have light armour. This is bad because fighters counter them. They have the same role and the same counter as bombers which makes assualt cruisers obsolete. They are destroyed too easily. Flak may counter SC very well, but with a change to carriers this will also change.

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Darvin3
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Reply #525 August 26, 2009 3:03:56 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
Yay to reduce supply cost of Adjudicator.
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