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Patch Stat Changes Forum [NEW TOPIC: Adjudicators 8/25/09]!!

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Deceiver_0
JuleTron
Join Date 06/2008
+17
Reply #376 August 1, 2009 6:09:42 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

You sir did not read my post slightly more above. Go read before answering.

I did now and I think that your solution is good.

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Deceiver_0
EadTaes
Join Date 03/2008
+25
Reply #377 August 1, 2009 1:38:55 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Make Gravity Mines and upgrade to existing mines? NO

 

Make Gravity Mines into a reverced repulse (suck stuff in when detonated)? YES

 

Deciver time to add a line.

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MindsEye
Join Date 05/2008
+7
Reply #378 August 1, 2009 5:40:13 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

To powerful imo.You cant be sucking ships into minefields.

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EadTaes
Join Date 03/2008
+25
Reply #379 August 1, 2009 5:47:46 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Well it will need to be balanced properly by adjusting the sucking power.

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Dargoon999
Join Date 05/2008
+8
Reply #380 August 1, 2009 8:32:40 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting EadTaes,
reply 4
Well it will need to be balanced properly by adjusting the sucking power.

what is this... Spaceballs!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VptOUWC-Itc

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EadTaes
Join Date 03/2008
+25
Reply #381 August 1, 2009 8:48:43 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

I think that's exagerating it.

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Dargoon999
Join Date 05/2008
+8
Reply #382 August 1, 2009 9:27:41 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting EadTaes,
reply 6
I think that's exagerating it.

I'm kidding EadTaes. Just couldn't help myself. But I'm with MindsEye on this one, this could be way OP. Imagine a capship being literally suck in the middle of a minefield. Anyway we are not trying to create something new here, we are trying to come up with easy fixes for the devs to make a more fun/balance game. Thats why I still think making Vasari grav mines an uprade of the explosive ones is an easy fix, the parameters are already there.

One more thing, after all the replies (380+) this thread got I would have liked to know what IC is thinking, are they really reading this or are we just wasting our time here. We didn't get a single reply from anyone at IC, not even 1.

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EadTaes
Join Date 03/2008
+25
Reply #383 August 1, 2009 9:36:19 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

m kidding EadTaes. Just couldn't help myself. But I'm with MindsEye on this one, this could be way OP. Imagine a capship being literally suck in the middle of a minefield. Anyway we are not trying to create something new here, we are trying to come up with easy fixes for the devs to make a more fun/balance game. Thats why I still think making Vasari grav mines an uprade of the explosive ones is an easy fix, the parameters are already there.

That's understandable but wraping an explosive mine with a disabling mine all in one is not very practical, what's the point of dissabling a ship if it's gonna blow up? Still gonna make the grav mine upgrade useless. As for the grav mine pulling in CAP ships to their death they are a few things that can negate that.

1 Gravmine will occupy space were they could ahve been explosive mines, so right of the bat the killing power of the mine feild is lesser. Not to mention it wont push the cap directly on an explosive mine per say but towards a now empty lot in space. Capitals should be sturdy enough to survive a bit of punishement.

2 If it proves to be a combo to powerfull the standard explosive mines can be toned down a bit.

3 If your fooling enought to send a CAP into a nasty mine field then maybe your deserve to lose it? I mean that'S was scouts are for right?

One more thing, after all the replies (380+) this thread got I would have liked to know what IC is thinking, are they really reading this or are we just wasting our time here. We didn't get a single reply from anyone at IC, not even 1.

And yeah were is IC , after their last patch, witch did to few good to fix the game, they haven't said a single word.

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Exterm123
Join Date 03/2008
+1
Reply #384 August 2, 2009 1:08:26 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

I just had a thought on repulse, not sure if it's been brought up yet.  But what if instead of it being an ability that pushes ships around, that it be more of a barrier ability.  You use it once you set up your guardians to project shields and then everything outside the ball is stopped from getting in.  So it'd be more of a proactive ability so you use it right before the battle begins.  Any enemy ships inside the ball can get out if they want, but they wouldn't be allowed back in as long as repulse was active.  Maybe set pretty substantial AM drain or a duration with a long cooldown.

The catch is that once either you use up all your AM on the barrier, you can't project your shields any longer (shields are still up while you use the barrier too though) or you can let the enemy in but keep shields up.  And of course if the shields go down altogether, the barrier goes with it.

I do see some exploits people could do with this already like blocking lanes of escape so maybe something like if you do enough damage to the shields the barrier breaks early.  It'd be like a strong bubble that can still be popped.  That or it can be a directional barrier in front so that if you move units around behind the Guardian they can go through.

Just some new thoughts.  Take them as mindless blabber if you want.

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Cykur
Join Date 03/2003
+48
Reply #385 August 2, 2009 1:14:40 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

And yeah were is IC , after their last patch, witch did to few good to fix the game, they haven't said a single word.

I'm sure they read this stuff, but if I were them I wouldn't want to address all of these changes either.  There are so many changes in these lists that it is plain silly...just a couple tweaks to ships or game mechanics can have a huge impact to the way the game is played -- if all of these changes were made at once, we would have to relearn the game.

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Deceiver_0
Cykur
Join Date 03/2003
+48
Reply #386 August 2, 2009 1:23:21 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

I just had a thought on repulse, not sure if it's been brought up yet. But what if instead of it being an ability that pushes ships around, that it be more of a barrier ability. You use it once you set up your guardians to project shields and then everything outside the ball is stopped from getting in. So it'd be more of a proactive ability so you use it right before the battle begins. Any enemy ships inside the ball can get out if they want, but they wouldn't be allowed back in as long as repulse was active. Maybe set pretty substantial AM drain or a duration with a long cooldown.

The catch is that once either you use up all your AM on the barrier, you can't project your shields any longer (shields are still up while you use the barrier too though) or you can let the enemy in but keep shields up. And of course if the shields go down altogether, the barrier goes with it.

I do see some exploits people could do with this already like blocking lanes of escape so maybe something like if you do enough damage to the shields the barrier breaks early. It'd be like a strong bubble that can still be popped. That or it can be a directional barrier in front so that if you move units around behind the Guardian they can go through.

This is not a bad idea.  I think Repulse IS supposed to be more like a barrier than it is supposed to be aggressively pushing the enemy fleet all over the place.  It would just run until AM ran out.  There would still be exploits like you mentioned, but certainly nothing worse than what we already have. 

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crashmatusow
Join Date 02/2009
+5
Reply #387 August 2, 2009 1:27:23 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Cykur,
reply 10

And yeah were is IC , after their last patch, witch did to few good to fix the game, they haven't said a single word.


I'm sure they read this stuff, but if I were them I wouldn't want to address all of these changes either.  There are so many changes in these lists that it is plain silly...just a couple tweaks to ships or game mechanics can have a huge impact to the way the game is played -- if all of these changes were made at once, we would have to relearn the game.

yeah, i mean, carriers get a build rate nerf and suddenly half the ships in the game are broken.

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JuleTron
Join Date 06/2008
+17
Reply #388 August 2, 2009 2:05:23 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

wraping an explosive mine with a disabling mine all in one is not very practical, what's the point of dissabling a ship if it's gonna blow up

It isn't necassarily going to blow something up. It would slow down and damage caps, but not kill them, same goes for HCs, flak, carriers etc. Also, the grav effect may be AOE so that a ship thats sets off a mine slows down nearby ships.

Anyway, I don't think suction mines would automatically be OP, but the radius would need to be kept small.Making grav-mines an upgrade for existing mines may be easier to implement though.

 

 

 

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Deceiver_0
EadTaes
Join Date 03/2008
+25
Reply #389 August 2, 2009 3:24:34 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

I'm sure they read this stuff, but if I were them I wouldn't want to address all of these changes either. There are so many changes in these lists that it is plain silly...just a couple tweaks to ships or game mechanics can have a huge impact to the way the game is played -- if all of these changes were made at once, we would have to relearn the game.

Yes indeed. Witch is why the first thing I am fixing in my mod if the flak VS carriers. If the counter chain si reinstorad most problems will go away. The other change I done so far is with the Illumes. But one I get the flak carriers to were i think they should be and get the LFs anti AM abilaties doing decent shit, i'll look into repulse and stop it there. See how things play out. I hope you will be testing I'll be lookign into the feed from the high skilled players.

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Dargoon999
Join Date 05/2008
+8
Reply #390 August 2, 2009 10:04:11 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Cykur,
reply 10

And yeah were is IC , after their last patch, witch did to few good to fix the game, they haven't said a single word.


I'm sure they read this stuff, but if I were them I wouldn't want to address all of these changes either.  There are so many changes in these lists that it is plain silly...just a couple tweaks to ships or game mechanics can have a huge impact to the way the game is played -- if all of these changes were made at once, we would have to relearn the game.

Well the list is not THAT long, here is a shorter version of the op;

 

All Races:

- Targeting AI: Fix all abilities to prevent wasteful use.

- Mines: Decrease cost by 25%.

- Siege Frigates: Decrease the supply cost from 14 to 10.

- Capital Carriers: Increase starting squadrons from 2 to 3.

- Capital Carriers: Increase the maximum number of squadrons from 6 to 10.

- Light Frigates: Increase damage by 20%.

- Light Frigates: Increase damage bonus to heavy armor from 150% to 200%.

- Light Frigates: Increase the range of special abilities by 20%.

- Light Frigates: Increase firing arc.

- Light Frigates: Increase turning speed.

- Light Frigates: Tweak targeting AI to favor support cruisers.

- Carrier Cruisers: Reduce the squadron’s build penalty from -25% to -10%.

 

TEC:

- Heavy Fallout: Make the upgrade active (currently passive).

- Marza Dreadnought: Graphic and audio improvement for missile barrage.

 

Advent:

- Domina Subjugator: Increase firing arc of special abilities.

- Domina Subjugator: Increase turning speed.

- Iconus Guardian: Increase the antimatter cost of repulse.

- Illuminator Vessel: Decrease hull and shields by 15%.

 

Vasari:

- Serevun Overseer: Increase firing arc of special abilities.

- Serevun Overseer: Increase turning speed.

- Skarovas Enforcer: Increase damage from 20 to 22.

- Reintegration: Increase repair rate by 25%.

- Basic Wave Cannons: Decrease from 4 labs to 3 labs.

- Wave Amplification: Decrease from 5 labs to 4 labs.

- Superior Wave Cannons: Decrease from 7 labs to 6 labs.

- Skirantra Carrier: Increase Scramble Bombers from 1/2/3 to 2/4/6.

 

Please note that the numbers are just basic guidelines for the devs, nothing more.

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Deceiver_0
Cykur
Join Date 03/2003
+48
Reply #391 August 2, 2009 12:32:25 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Yes indeed. Witch is why the first thing I am fixing in my mod if the flak VS carriers. If the counter chain si reinstorad most problems will go away. The other change I done so far is with the Illumes. But one I get the flak carriers to were i think they should be and get the LFs anti AM abilaties doing decent shit, i'll look into repulse and stop it there. See how things play out. I hope you will be testing I'll be lookign into the feed from the high skilled players.

Sorry, I'm back in semi-retirement.    Don't even have it installed right now, nor could I play if I did, don't have much access to reliable hi-speed internet.  Maybe I'll be back some day...after the next expansion or something...who knows.

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EadTaes
Join Date 03/2008
+25
Reply #392 August 2, 2009 1:32:01 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Sorry, I'm back in semi-retirement. Don't even have it installed right now, nor could I play if I did, don't have much access to reliable hi-speed internet. Maybe I'll be back some day...after the next expansion or something...who knows.

Dude that is very sad and depresing to hear. Hope you make it back soon.

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Deceiver_0
Deceiver_0
Join Date 12/2008
+42
Reply #393 August 2, 2009 1:46:06 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

I'm sure they read this stuff, but if I were them I wouldn't want to address all of these changes either. There are so many changes in these lists that it is plain silly...just a couple tweaks to ships or game mechanics can have a huge impact to the way the game is played -- if all of these changes were made at once, we would have to relearn the game.

They do read this thread and others, and yes there are alot of proposed changes, but the most popular ones are the only ones they should be looking at. I am hoping though that they are spending a good amount of time finally fixing the balances in the game, and pray that they next patch puts the game closer to level than ever before, and Im hoping this thread helps.

On vacation right now,  but will update the op when i get home.

PS for MP players, I'd recommend playing race specific games, theyre quite fun and don't have the headache of the balance issues. If everyone in the game is the same race, no one has a specific race advantage over anyone else. Im not saying do this all the time, but its quite fun and challenging to play a game with everyone being vasari, or everyone being TEC. Leaves the match more up to the map and the players skill than to what race he picks.

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Raging Amish
Join Date 03/2008
+77
Reply #394 August 3, 2009 10:08:11 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting EadTaes,
reply 4
Well it will need to be balanced properly by adjusting the sucking power.

Must....not....make....crude....joke.....must....contain.....self....

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Deceiver_0
N3rull
Join Date 10/2008
+42
Reply #395 August 3, 2009 11:05:10 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

If everyone in the game is the same race, no one has a specific race advantage over anyone else.

2v2v2v2v2 100% Vasari Neutral Extractor Capturefest!!!!
Mwahahah.

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Raging Amish
Join Date 03/2008
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Reply #396 August 3, 2009 11:10:29 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

You used to be able to scrap neutrals. That was fun. Scorch the earth! Leave nothing behind! I was a bastard and always did it. If I couldn't have it, neither could you.

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Whiskey144
Join Date 06/2009
+58
Reply #397 August 3, 2009 11:13:31 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

OH YEAH!! SCORCHED EARTH POLICY!!

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Deceiver_0
Join Date 12/2008
+42
Reply #398 August 3, 2009 6:38:35 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

A lot of people are commenting, but not voting . I see Raging hasn't, Cykur (eventhough you're in semiretirement, your opinion still matters), Crashmatusow, Ue-Carbon, where's those votes?

 

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Raging Amish
Join Date 03/2008
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Reply #399 August 3, 2009 9:44:38 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

No change needed for mines is my answer except for TEC. Instant build I say yay

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Warlord Mike
Join Date 05/2009
+3
Reply #400 August 4, 2009 9:12:21 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums 
Hey guys.  Just my personal input over here...

Mines
      Buff Mines
                        Increase damage? Maybe, maybe not - I'd be fine either way.
                        Increase damage radius? Abso-frickin'-lutely!
                        Increase activation radius? Yes - It's too small to begin with.
                        Increase mines per deployment? Nah.
                        Increase deployment spread? Yeah, I guess
                        Decrease cost? Sure, why not?

                        Reduce build time for Proximity Mines(TEC)? YES (better yet, have
                        'em built ALL at once (one constructor can do 10 mines))

                        Increase duration of Gravity Mines(Vasari)? They have a duration?
                        Screw that, make 'em permanent!

                        Fix homing mines AI to return to original deployment location(Advent)?
                        Yes

      No fix needed-  N/A

Siege Frigates
      Buff Siege Frigates
                        Increase Hp/shields/armor?: Don't think so.
                        Change armor type (currently light)?: Not really necessary -
                        they're kinda meant to be sitting ducks if they're the only ships present.
                        Decrease Resource cost?: Nah.
                        Decrease Supply Cost?: By at LEAST half.  They're too big of supply
                        hogs as they stand.
                        Increase Bombardment damage?: You'd kinda have to, if you REALLY
                        want to ensure they're used.
                        Make TEC Heavy Fallout Active (currently passive)?: It's partly why I DON'T
                        get Krosovs - so yes.
                        Reduce Heavy Fallout effect time (currently 6 minutes)?: By 2 mins, at LEAST.
                        Reduce Xp value (currently 65xp)?: Nah.
                        Apply fixes to siege militia?: Yes.
                        Apply fixes to siege pirates?: Yes.

      No Fix Needed- N/A

SEREVUN OVERSEER
      Buff Serevun Overseers-
                         Increase firing arc of abilities?: Yes.
                         Increase turn rate?: I suppose.
                         Make 'Reactive nanite armor' omnidirectional (360 degrees)?:
                         Sure, why not?
                         Increase reduction of jump speed for 'Jump Degradation'?:
                         No opinion.
                         Allow 'Jump Degradation' to do a damage % to incoming enemy vessels' hulls?:
                         See my comment on Stilakus @ the bottom.
                         Allow 'Jump Degradation' to disable passive regeneration?:
                         Maybe.

          No Fix Needed- N/A

SKAROVAS ENFORCER
           Buff Skarovas Enforcers-
                         Decrease Resource Cost?: No.
                         Decrease Supply Cost?: Maybe - and even then,
                         they should still cost at LEAST 10.
                         Increase hp/shields/armor?: No, yes, and maybe.
                         In that order.
                         Increase Damage?: HELL yes.
                         Cheaper damage upgrades?: Oh yeah.
                         Higher reintegration rate?: Maybe.

           No Fix Needed- N/A

DOMINA SUBJUGATORS
           Buff Domina Subjugators-
                         Increase firing arc of abilities?: I guess...
                         Increase turn rate?: I don't see any problem with that.
                         Make abilities AOE?: Eh, why not?
                         Remove channeling from abilities?: It'd be best - I'd rather not
                         to have to watchdog them.
                         Fix Targeting AI (on all abilities for all races) to prevent wasteful use?:
                         Yes.

           No Fix Needed- N/A

CARRIER CLASS CAPITAL SHIPS
           Buff Carrier Caps-
                        Increase Initial Armor? It'd help, but it's not necessary.
                        Increase Squadron Capacity? Damn straight it should -
                        they OUGHT to be in double-digits if you reach level 10.
                        Make SC buffs AOE?
                        Depends, really - both sides present their own can of worms.

                        Increase additional drones(Adept Drone Anima)? Maybe. 

                        Re-work Scramble Bombers? Either re-work it, or replace it with
                        something else. I never use it.

           No Fix Needed- N/A

LIGHT FRIGATES
           Buff Light Frigates-
                        Increase Damage?: Maybe.
                        Increase Damage bonus to armor type?: Maybe.
                        Increase Hp/Shields/Armor?: Probably the first two more than Armor.
                        Increase ability range?: Yeah.  They're so short as to be worthless.
                        Increase firing arc?: If you want - no more than 90 degrees left or
                        right, though.
                        Increase turn speed?: Sure, why not?

            Tweak Targeting AI to favor support cruisers?: That's what they're designed to attack,
                        aren't they? Yes.

            Nerf Counters-
                        Decrease LRF Damage?: Nah.
                        Decrease LRF damage bouns to medium armor?: No.
                        Increase resource cost?: Fine as-is.  Nay.

            No Fix Needed-  N/A

REPULSE:
            Nerf Guardians-
                        Increase AM cost?: Seems better than most other options...
                        Increase cooldown rate?: Maybe.
                        Decrease AOE?: No.
                        Increase resource cost?: Fine as-is.
                        Cause damage to shields?: Innovative, but no.

             Buff Counters-

                        Increase LF ability range?: I think they actually work alright,
                        but if not, go for it.
                        No affect to Cap Ships?: Yeah, I think something 3 times a Guardian's
                        size would NOT be repulsed.  Do it.
                        Increase Distortion Field activation range?:  ...What?  This needs to
                        be explained a little.

            No Fix Needed- N/A

MISSILE BARRAGE:
            Nerf Missile Barrage-
                        Decrease total damage?: It's MEANT to be a mass-murder ability.
                        Keep the 3000 damage as-is.
                        Increase AM cost? No.
                        Decrease AOE? If anything, it should be INCREASED. Otherwise,
                        leave it.
                         
            Buff Counters-
                        Increase range on ability interrupts?: Maybe - I think they're fine as-is.
                        LF abilities can target caps?: For reasons BESIDES MB, personally.
                              
            Graphic Improvement?: It IS kinda bland, admittedly; go right ahead.

            No Fix Needed- N/A

CARRIERS:
            Buff Carriers-
                        Decrease build penalty?: Only the murderous 50% penalties;
                        15% is fine.
                        Increase fighter HP?: No - another can of worms here.
                        Reduce movement penalty?: Maybe...Carriers aren't really meant
                        to move, though...

            Nerf Counters-
                        Reduce Flak rate of fire?: If so, not by too much - I'm thinking a 15%
                        reduction should be as slow as it goes, and even THAT'S pushing it.

            No Fix Needed- N/A

SCOUTS:
            Nerf Scouts-
                        Reduce damage buff against light armor?: No.
                        Increase scout supply requirement?: Nay.
                        Increase resource cost?: Nope.
                         
            Buff Vasari Scouts-
                        Increase Hp/Shields?: No more than 5% if you do, on both counts.
                        Increase damage?: I guess.

            No Fix Needed- N/A

ILLUMINATORS:
            Nerf Illuminators-
                        Increase resource cost?: Nah.
                        Adjust damage division between beams?:  I guess so.
                        Decrease/adjust the HP/Shields?:  The HP more than the shields
                        (think "Glass Cannon"), really.
                        Increase supply requirement?: Not necessary.
                        Decrease Damage?: Nope.
                              
            No Fix Needed- N/A

I'd like to table the Stilakus Subverters for scrutiny.

The Ability that decreases armor needs a review (it can't attack starbases,
while most other things CAN), and I'm not sure how the in-system phase-jumping
works, but it doesn't seem that effective, either way.
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