Ok, with so many people moaning and complaining about carriers (and even Agent of Karma's lame-o test https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/340117), I need to point out that there are great ways to counter carriers. Here they are:
1) USE CAPITAL SHIPS AND THEIR AWESOME ABILITIES. Capital ships are cheap, take very little fleet supply, can be retreated before dieing, and can counter 100's of fleet supply while only costing 50 fleet supply.
2) FLAK
3) BUILD PHASE JUMP INHIBITORS (PJI). Come on people, think up. If your opponent jumps in and out, do the research, spend a few hundred on a PJI and you're ok. When coupled with ION bolt or grav bomb, this combo is deadly: I call it the meat grinder. In all seriousness people, man up, grow some balls, and think strategy here.
4) YOU NEED TO BUILD FIGHTERS. If the opponent has 20 fighters and you have zero, you are going to lose. Build a few fighters just so the opponent can't just fly around without a challenge. Countering LRFs sometimes requires LRFs, and countering carriers sometimes requires carriers. Use your brain.
Ok, so now that the SC are dead, the carrier can start rebuilding it's SC. BUT WAIT! Carriers need antimatter (AM) to build SC and it takes time. Every jump the player makes costs 100 AM and if you are smart, your light frigates (LFs) will have the AM counter abilites teched. If you see a player continually jumping his carriers around, just laugh at him and follow him with the LFs. LFs counter carriers like no-ones business. Also, if you are going against a pure carrier spammer, DO NOT build long range frigates (LRFs). LRFs suck against carriers; DO NOT have them unless your opponent has LFs.
So there you go. Stop complaining everyone, and learn to use cap ships and/or counters.
BTW, I was the original guy that said carriers would be spammed in v1.1, so you can see how time can change things. https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/317041
Seconded. Carriers are not all powerful. The ones bemoaning carriers should spend less time griping and more time using the counters. I know this is a shocker and it goes against some of your pre-programmed RTS brains but beating carrier spam doesnt mean you should spam something else in return to the exclusion of everything else, be it light frigate or carrier. It means putting some actual brain cells devoted to how to defeat your enemy. There are a multitude of suggestions here already some of which I have posted in other threads on how to deal with carriers/strike craft. I suggest you read them or I will school you online if you try to spam it against me.
[_]-Greyfox
Thanks for the stratagy guide. I just want to throw my hat in the ring to ask the devs...
please do not nerf the carriers. Thank you.
Yeah. The reason I never put all these down before (I have posted snip-its here and there) is because I hate for some people to learn most of my secrets. I particularly like PJIs with grav bomb. That combo is so OP I can't believe no one has screamed bloody murder on it yet and the devs nerf the living day lights out of it.
Oh for sure. PJIs by them selves work wonders against Advent hosts. Stick them like fly paper and hose them down.
Ehh...by themselves, they are ok; they might only lose 1 or 2 ships. With grav bomb, the hole fleet is lost. Most pros avoid the meat grinder by killing all of the PJIs or finding a phase lane that the PJI doesn't cover. This usually results in far fewer loses than just trying to jump out with the PJI still up and running.
and if i remember correctly the Advent have a way to counter the gav bomb. one of there support ships counters all ability/ disabling attacks. so if you have (like i usually do) 10-20 of those your still fine.
(by no means am i saying this is right nor that im a pro. but i was playing just last night and the same thing was happening to against the AI. this is how i figured out he was getting around it. I was advent and had the one Capital ship that disables pretty much everything on a ship and i did this twice and almost instantly it was able to move shoot and use its abilities again. and it had that support ship. i will get the name of the ships and post them later unless someone beats me to it.)
Yes, there are ways to counter it. Completely agree. However, 99% of sins players don't know about it and they don't bring the counter until they realize the pickle they are in.
Well my usual vas too stick a fleet in was subv and the egg grav bomb, the PJI i usualy use it so ppl can target it
i luv to see fleets RUN into the PJI and ... die because they have 3 PJI to kill and repairs all the way
Yeah, those are pretty good tricks. Advent can do similar with repulsion.
You guys don't get it.
You can't expect players to jump thru 5 flaming hoops, juggle 3 bowling pins while singing a ballard to counter carriers.
Can Carriers be countered - not really, at least not cost-effectively and like you mentioned you need your OWN CARRIERs to counter. Phase Jump inhibitors are expensive to make and research (he can get 3 Light Carriers for the research + the inhibitor). Also you have to micro 100% more than the carrier dude who just jumps in and chills out leading many palyers to just spam thei own carriers so they don't have to deal with it.
You still mentioned: you cannot counter his strike craft without your own Strike Craft, this is wrong and is a balance issue. Unless the developers come in here and SAY: they meant to do this, I don't believe this was suppose to be the game design at all.
Essentially to counter Light Carriers you guys are limited the player to 1 type of cap: The Kol. What if I don't want Kols? Also Flak Burst costs anti-matter, and as everyone has mentioned before all the Falk in the world doesn't matter because the carriers can replace their strike craft as they lose them and no it does not "TAKE TIME" it takes 15 secs, which is nothing in SINs time.
I'm gonna put my hat in the ring too...
Developers, don't let a bunch of demagogues influence your judgement when clearly the overwhelming part of the community believe there really is a balance issue. Even people who were against the carrier nerfs did some objective tests and are now saying they believe there really is a balance issue.
Unless you really wanr people to: jump thru 3 flaming hoops, balance 3 bottles of beer on your head, while juggling 3 bowling pins while balancing on a uni-cycle to counter carriers which still doesn't cost-effectively counter carriers.
Ugh...wrong. Just wrong. Dunov? Magnetize?
Caps are choosen for their abilities. Use them. And I'm not saying you need to match fighters 1 to 1, but you need SOME. I sware...
I play another game and when people complain like this we call it 'BAWW!' There are ways to counter carriers but you don't want to use them.
Whoever wants to prove/disprove your point, signup at this thread (https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/340366) to show off your skills. Bring a box of tissues.
Can we have light frigates 150% dmg vs Carriers to 175%
I think thats really all thats needed.
I'm going to side with How on this one, there are plenty of ways to beat carrier spam, you've jsut got to learn them and the biggest thing is KNOW WHAT YOUR OPPONENT IS DOING!. The whole point of strategy is learning to adapt to whats being thrown at you. Yes options are limited, but isn't that the same with any spam counter? "Gee I realy don't want to build carriers to counter my opponents LRF spam, id much rather build LF's". I mean it's not like you have to go Kol or Space egg or Adv Carrier in the beginning and nothing else, just means if you see your opponent going Carriers it may benefit you to build one.
Just because the counters for said carrier spam aren't along the average path of research and construction, doesn't mean carriers are OP, just means you have to ADAPT, THINK OUTSIDE YOUR LITTLE BOX.
I have had my own Carrier spam ANNIHILATED by someone who used PJI's. It can be done. Give it a try. 3 carriers worth of resources is DEFINETLY worth paying to have all your opponents ships take FOREVER to phase jump away.
I guess if you are TEC. The cost for vasari is rediculously small.
p5yy: I think that moving it to 160% would be more reasonable.
I found the AI with 36 Drone hosts, UNSTOPPABLE just able. I mean I had 5 level 7 cap ships couple with fully upped flak abilities and the drone hosts just spammed me to death, no effect on their drones as they just rebuild fast and the DRONE HOST ships had too much shield and armor to really take them down quickly.
This has been my MAJOR problem with sins, yet to find a way to take down drone hosts in swarms, effectively all my empires drop under this strategy. Utterly sucks.
I'm considering adjusting the carrier cap ship to having upto 15 upgradable fighter slots. I'm not keen on building 50 light carriers every time I wanna remove these drone hosts from the galaxy.
Dude, I want to see that replay, because you epic failed. With level 3 flak on 2 caps, you can take out that whole swarm of drones in 10 seconds. It's so easy to beat the AI with capital counters it isn't even funny. Additionally, capital flak abilites counter UNLIMITED SC. It doesn't matter how many, the same damage will be applied to all squadrons.
-carrier speed, antimatter, hp and shield should be reduced.
- also they shouldnt spam SC wings so fast...
Hey Howdidudothat,
How about you spam Capital Carrier Ships instead of the easily spammable Light Carrier we all know is too cost-effective. I'd have no problems with Capital Carrier Ship and in fact I think they need to be buffed.
Regardless of anything strike craft should be able to be soft countered or at least prevent you from getting annihilated by not wielding any of your own strike craft. AND YOU CAN'T.
That is a balance problem right there. You force people to get carriers to counter carriers. Bottom-line. I'm sorry you cant see how that is not a balance issue.
In a balanced fleet you should have carriers anyway. Why, exactly, would you not field your on carriers.
A balanced fleet wouldn't have 40 light carriers + maybe 10 other ships. They seem to kinda... um rape a new one.
If we're advocating balanced fleets here, its obviously the carrier spammer's fleet that is not balanced is too cost-effective.
Dude, stop smoking crack already. You are making no sense. Just go away, and stop flaming/trolling my threads.
...come on how your grasping, carriers are overpowered. not to the extent many claim and not in the same way illums used to be and missle barrage is now. carriers are potentialy strong vs everything, only weak vs the most worthless units in the game that shred like paper vs anything, can absorb tons of dmg, fast enough to out run most units.
sure carriers are easily managed but the cost to counter a couple carriers is far higher than the cost of a few carriers, i make 4 carriers and you build a capitol and flak your fucked eco stand point. carriers are broken because its absolutely impossible to win without them now.
i challange anyone to beat me without carriers
There are many great features available to you once you register, including:
Sign in or Create Account
