says Blair Fraser in his interview for Rock-Paper-Shotgun in regard to Sins of a Dark Age....what does that suppose to mean? Hopefully not the premature end of SoaSE 2...
Wut. You may know all the rules of the boardgame but that's a far cry from knowing exactly what's going on. How many boardgames don't utilize cards of decks with various randomization mechanics?
I think saying the RTS market is dying is a bit of truth mixed with a dash of hyperbole and a sprinkling of oversimplification. The games industry has been seeing the same creeping consolidation most industries have over the past couple decades. For RTS we have SC2 with games like CoH/CoH2 and others distant second tier in terms of popularity/players. For MOBAs, it's basically 2 games with HoN a more distant third. Yet MOBAs are considered thriving and RTS is dying?
A lot of studios that produced past RTS titles are gone or got gobbled up by larger publishers. Are there actually less RTS players these days or just less titles to choose from? It's always been a bit of a niche genre but I suspect a lot of people who played in past titles simply moved to SC2 or one of the MOBAs since there are so few other options. I think the demand is still there (look at out how successful Planetary Annhilation's Kickstarter campaign has been) or has even grown but publishers/studios seem to not view them, rightly or wrongly, as good financial choices. Dawn of War II, C&C IV, and Supreme Commander2 all to greater or lesser degree failed to establish themselves as much as their predecessors did (although I loved DoW2 personally and I think it did alright financially) so those may be some examples and reasons for why pubs/studios are more hesitant.
How well PA, Bioware/EAs f2p C&C, and CoH2 do will be a good indicator of whether right now is just a low point or if there really is less demand/interest from players. Personally I'm also really looking forward to Creative Assembly's Warhammer Fantasy game - their usual mix of TBS/RTS.
I've never played TW, doesn't appeal to me. I have played a lot of SotS, which is similar enough I figure. And while I liked SotS, I hated the combat, because it was slow, difficult to manage without having to really spend a lot of time with micro, and, aside from the nice gfx, unappealing. Really I think it comes down to mirco for me, i don't want to do the micro dance on the level most RTS ask you to do it. I can deal with stuff like EU because it's not exactly RTS, and the strategy is far deeper than the tactics (well that's obvious I suppose).
As to examining the genre closely... why on earth would I? The mechanics of RTS do not appeal to me, so why waste time and money on something I am unlikely to enjoy? I'm even sick of games like Diablo which are not RTS, but require a level click click clickity click that turns me off after a while. I know me, you know you, that's just how it is
I don't look at where people are posting from, these general areas are general for a reason aren't they? For what it's worth I do not own nor plan on owning FE either, I don't care for it.
Master of Economy. Indonesia has very low luck. Container only has luck in the setup. Rolling Stock can be played with a pre-set order of companies coming out. 18xx has no luck.
Again, the point is that RTS will hide things about itself that can be found out later by people who have too much time on their hands. You can't do that in board games, because the rules all have to be known. With the exception of Risk Legacy.
Also, at least you know in the board game where the randomization will happen and what the possible outcomes are, and their probabilities.
This article was timed to the Starcraft2: Heart of the Swarm expansion release. If RTS is dying then we will see it in Blizzard sales. The expensive production values they have pumped is just ridiculous.
That doesn't meant there isn't strategy involved. And again, why the strong word of hate? I'd reserve that for a game that almost offends what your definition of a game should be, like a horse riding game or something. If you like strategy I don't see why you wouldn't at least respect some RTS games, even if their style isn't really your thing.
Again, I think you are likely in the minority if you like TBS but have never played an RTS you liked. They're not all like Starcraft. Heck in theory you can just let the AI handle all your micro in Sins if you play against the easier AIs. Others like Rise of Nations focus just as much on Empire building as on combat.
So why are you posting in the elemental forums, and why did you feel the need to hate on one genre just to say you like another better, when you could have just left this thread for people who actually care about RTS games? Just seems rude if nothing else.
http://www.gamespot.com/street-cleaning-simulator/reviews/street-cleaning-simulator-review-6326398/
First it was the "PC gaming is dying" prophecy and we all know how THAT turned out! Total defeat for the prophets.
Now it seems to be "RTS games are dying".
Well, my answer to that is simply:
Every time when I log on to RelicOnline (to play Company of Heroes) there are always atleast 1000 players online. I can't remember the real numbers but it's something like that. I just play a mod called Modern Combat which has less than 10 active players (that can play anytime they're online on Steam) and I still manage to get a game most of the time.
Dawn of War I & II have lost almost all their players. Understandable since the first one is so old now and kinda got replaced by Company of Heroes and DoW II was a bit of an experiment which didn't turn out well for many people (including me).
StarCraft II dropped 75% of its players after some months (including me). I don't think they will come back to the multiplayer. I won't.
Can't think of any other highprofile RTS games
As for upcoming RTS games....
Company of Heroes II will sell very well. If it doesn't break 2 millions in the first week then I will be disappointed.
As for StarCraft II: Heart of the Swarm, I can't say how it will sell. I think many who bought StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty were disappointed with its old style of RTS gameplay (like I were) and will not buy Heart of The Swarm though many will because of the excellent campaign & custom maps.
I'll throw out a guess of 25% of WoL buyers will get HoTS. Let's see if I'm right or not
Generals II is F2P (damn good move by EA!) and will therefore sell lots of skinpacks, new faction, skirmish mode, campaign etc to those who like it.
And this covers the RTS games I know about. Planetary Annihilation I have no interest in since it's like Supreme Commander and if there were another one then I can't even remember it....
I love RTS's. One of the few genres I will play.
oh what the hell do they know. People said Space Sims are dead, and PC is a dead platform, both are completely untrue.
No genre ever dies, it may go into a hibernation waiting for the next big thing, but never dead.
The reason why they say that is because there have been a flood of sub-par RTSs, just like their are a bunch of sub-par FPSs, but those will fade away while the gems will luster on and on. and the same for RTSs
they say MMOs are dead, again a lot of bad ones, a few good ones.
All of these genres can be revitalized with a well thought out and good entry into their respective arenas. It's just lately the game industry is trying to stay ahead by doing quantity over quality.
and of course, where would a post about the game industry be without "I blame EA", and yes, I do blame them, because they represent all that is wrong and unholy about video games. I think people know what I mean, so I don't need to say more.
-AE
What does there being strategy involved have to do with anything? I said I found the level of micro necessary to play 'well' annoying, and I hate pointless micro, which I feel is the summation of every RTS I've ever played. Letting the AI do it for you doesn't sound that appealing to me either, I'm simply not a fan of mindless clicking, and there is just too much of that in RTSs for me. Also why do you assume I don't respect RTS games? I hate them. That doesn't mean they are actually bad, just that I don't like them. They may be the greatest thing ever accomplished, but you know what? I would still hate them. I hate the Rolling Stones too, can't stand their music. Doesn't mean I think they are a bad band, just that I hate their music.
Why do you have such a problem with someone using the word hate anyway?
You know what? I don't give a crap if I'm in the minority or the majority. I only care about what my preferences are. I'm not running for office, I'm offering my opinion on what kind of games I like and which ones I hate. This seems to trouble you for some reason I cannot understand. Nor do I particularly care to understand it, it doesn't matter to me. I hate RTSs, other than the paradox style I already mentioned. Is that enough for you? Are those not RTSie enough? Well I don't even consider them 'true' RTSs anyway. Hybrids like SotS, which I also played 100s of hours on, pissed me off eventually, but really I just started auto resolving the combats anyway, so the RTS part of the game disappeared.
God...
Who cares where anyone is posting from? If you must know, I registered on the elemental forums because I was interested in that game, and that's the bookmark I kept.
Also, I didn't hate on a genre, I said I hated a genre. Is the difference lost on you? No where did I say anything demeaning of RTSs or people who like them, I just said I hate them (the RTSs not the people), and then told you the aspects of them which I hated after you asked. Others may not hate those aspects. Great. Not everyone is going to like the same things. If you found it rude then sucks for you. I find it bizarre that you care so much about it.
You could have read my post as being tongue in cheek as well, in as much as bad news for new RTS development could mean good news for more new TBS development. Not that I think RTSs are going anywhere, though I wouldn't care at all if there was never another new RTS ever made. The same way I wouldn't care if the Rolling Stones stopped touring. Why? Because I won't buy any RTS nor go to any Rolling Stones concerts. I hate them both.
Would it bother you if you also knew I hate FPSs? Or eggplant? God, I really hate eggplant, disgusting food which makes me want to puke just thinking about it.
Is there anything you hate?
I've always enjoyed TBS over RTS, but excellent RTS games like Starcraft I/II, Dune, Warcraft, etc... are fantastic games and it is foolish to overlook them.
Why is it foolish? What do you mean by 'overlook'?
I've played SC, WC, TA, various other RTS...
and I didn't enjoy them.
If those are 'best' and I didn't care for them, then pray tell, why would I waste my time on any others? I hate the mechanics of RTS games. Is that really that difficult for people to comprehend? It's not a comment on the quality of the games themselves, clearly, they have massive fan bases, and are profitable to make.
But that means nothing to me. I hate RTSs, I don't want to play them, I don't care if they come or go.
You made yourself clear enough already in your initial post.
I think the Goafans issue was not your hate of RTS games, rather how it is completely unrelated to the topic of this thread. At least i fail to see what your gaming preferences mean in a bigger picture of possible demise of the RTS genre.
That said, i dont really care, whether your posts are on topic, or anyone elses for that matter. Your choice. But how can you wonder when people react negatively to your not very polite behavior (yes, posting off-topic is not polite thing to do),...that is well beyond my comprehension.
Anyway, seeing your Rolling Stones comments, we can conclude now you just have terrible taste in general and move on
He'd have to answer that, but reread his posts, I don't think that was really his concern.
In any case, my reply was on topic. I was happy to hear that RTS might be dying because that could mean more TBS games. Not sure how that's exactly off topic, but as you say, off topic hardly even matters.
Feel free to move on. The Rolling Stones are certainly an exceptional band, talented, and still going, amazingly. If you like them, I'm happy for you that you have their dull and uninteresting (my opinion obviously...) music to fill the dull and uninteresting moments in your life.
Thanks
TBF, i like them and hold their music in a high regard, but i dont usually listen to them...sometimes i feel like to hear Lady Jane, Ruby Tuesday or This Place is Empty...other than that though, there is load of bands i would prefer to listen to...
Out of curiosity, what do you consider to be interesting and not dull music? In other words, what music you like? While we may not agree on Rolling Stones, perhaps by chance we will find some common ground here
This thread was overtaken by Frogboys article on the same topic anyway.
Why not go the full off topic mile ehh?
I am 42, and the music of my youth was largely the Rock bands of the 60s and 70s. From those I especially enjoyed The Who and Led Zeppelin, though there are certainly other artists/groups which appealed to me. I am not much of a album collector, so if we judge my preferences off of albums (and later CDs) which I actually own, then the ranking probably goes like this
The Who/Led Zeppelin (near complete collections of each)
AC/DC
Black Sabbath
Iron Maiden
Assorted other stuff along those lines.
There is one other band I must mention, and that is Rush. Truly my all time fav, and the only band I have seen multiple times in concert. During the 80s and 90s (when I was of an age to attend the majority of concerts) I would go see Metallica or Tool or Sound Garden, though I wouldn't say I was a huge fan of any of those bands, but going to the concerts was enjoyable.
For more recent stuff... well, can't really say. My kids inflict various current day pop artists on me, and some of those songs are good in a kind of pop-corn fun way. Can't say I could name the artists. Well my younger two are big into Taylor Swift, and I guess her stuff is listenable, but not really my cup of tea. Yet compared to the Stones, I won't turn off her songs
Now I have an appreciation for a wide variety of music, the only two genres which I really struggle listen to are Country (not Western, Western is okish) and Rap/R&B. I'm also not much for the blues, which is why I quickly grew tired of the Stones, while Zep was heavier, though the influences were similar.
Also, for whatever reason this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66pE67m_Hf4
may be my favorite song of all time, but I'm quite sure there's some serious 'nostalgia' related to why that may be
Well, while your musical taste is not complete match to mine, i can definitely say, we are not that far apart here. I am not really expert to either LedZep or the Who, i mean i am not familiar with the complete work of either of these bands, but i listen to their music from time to time...although in case of Who, i actually own album called Substitute with covers of some of their best songs - especially i like Pictures of Lily (on that cd performed by David Bowie, i like his version even better than original ). but then again songs like Seeker, Behind Blue Eyes or 5:15 are absolutely brilliant as well.
Regarding Rush, again i only have Retrospective I album, which is i suppose some kind of best of...so i assume i miss quite a lot here, as i am actually sucker for progressive rock. My fav band here is Yes, but i love Pink Floyd, Crimson King, Buggles, Asia, Mystery, Renaissance, Styx, Druid, Camel, perhaps Genesis, Dream Theater as well...
The metal/hard rock stuff, i dont know - i like "I feel safe in New York city" for example by ACDC and few Iron Maiden songs, but not really familiar with them...
Regarding country, not really a fan probably, although i love Simon and Garfunkel, Don McLean and i am not sure whether thats qualifies as country or not...and recently i was introduced to music of Glenn .....(cant recall the surname now, he has Wichita Linesman and Galveston songs) and it was quite ok... when i think about it, its probably folkrock, what i like
And yeah, i am definitely not a fan of RnB/rap either, although there are indeed exceptions.
Will listen to that Thin Lizzy song later at home, dont have a sound on this computer
I enjoy Prog Rock, but not enough to seriously get into it I guess. I did go through a phase where I was listening to a lot of Yes and Styx, but burned out on them eventually, while Zep and The Who remained on the play list. I can't say I was ever really a fan of Genesis (or the Police for that matter) though. Not sure why, but I never really enjoyed Peter Gabriel.
I think you're right with the folkrock bit, what you mentioned probably isn't classified as country, but more on the folk side of things. There are many great folk songs and performers, but again, for some reason they never had any staying power with me.
I guess I did overlook Floyd a bit, an amazing group to be sure. Yet, my interest in them comes and goes, they are too moody for me I guess. Sometimes I really dig it, sometimes I don't. Wish you were here is one of my all time favorite songs as well, but again, nostalgia plays a role in the reason for that one as well (you know, 1st real love, losing her, ...).
On the flip side I had a girlfriend for a while who turned out to be... well, not really a very nice person. She was a huge Steve Miller fan, so I was subjected to a lot of Steve Miller. I really had nothing against the SMB, until after I realized just how ugly that girl could be, and since then, I've never been able to enjoy SMB again.
Indeed, the developers don't know what to do to innovate RTS anymore, and speed being everything in things like StarCraft doesn't help matters either.
EA has so far screwed up CnC in the aftermath of Generals/Zero Hour, and I am not expecting the latest one to change that. Homeworld was never really able to follow up on the original. StarCraft is all about speed, though I do like the game and universe, its just too fast-paced for my taste. SupCom was never properly followed up on, though Planetary Annihilation seems like it might change that. Planetary Annihilation really does seem to be the only bright spot for RTS on the horizon.
they did!!! i hate sometimes when the unit models look toy like > red alert 3... EA should have updated Generals for 2013 not change the whole thing!! why did they change the usa and china thing and most of all why go more sifi then it already was.... keep it with present day weapons not futuristic weapons its unbelievable and then free to pay and only online play??? why? id rather pay 40$ and have the freedom to play offline in sp not just mp
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