GC4 has come a long way since its Early Access days, and with upcoming expansions around the corner will continue to get even better. So its a good time to drill in on some things that aren't working so great in the game. This post won't deal with individual balance concerns but look more holistically at systems in the game that could use some love.
Here is our top 5 (in no particular order) systems that could use a look.
Volley System
The volley system was GC4's attempt to add some tactical combat into the overlay, and it succeeded at this, though the implementation could still use some love. Some people really hate that volleys ignore defenses, as its an easy way to snipe starbases in the later game. I think Missiles and Beams are too similar in how they volley (though not everyone agrees in this point).
Probably though the biggest issue is that the overkill problem. Volleys can only kill a single ship at a time (and normally its the smallest ship). This means that the optimum way to volley is to break up your ships into small pieces, have each of them volley, and then recombine your fleet. This is a horribly inefficient way to play, but 4x games are notorious for attracting OCD players who love to optimize, and there will always be those people willing to commit 50 clicks to get the best possible result.
When your game optimizes tedium....your game become tedious. And so that alone means the volley system needs a look.
Invasion System
GC4 made the move to remove complex ground invasions....a decision I praise. I think its weird to make ground invasions a big thing when you have giant space lasers. But that doesn't mean the system couldn't use some love.
Right now planetary defenses don't do much, there really isn't much in the way you can do with a planet to gird up its anti-invasion strength short of killing the invasion force before it arrives. Further, soldiers (and resolve) seems to have painfully little to do with the strength of invasion or invasion defenses.
Lastly, there is no attrition in invasion combat, you can use a group of transports and just take world after world. This tends to give the aggressor a bit too much power, its too easy to get an advantage and just take a whole mess of planets with impunity. There likely needs to be some attrition here so an attacker has to feed in fresh troops to get the invasion going.
Farming System
Food right now is a pretty minor part of the game. With just a diamond of 4 basic farms you can often feed an entire empire. You never need advanced farming techs or farming buildings. Its practically a non-factor.
Now you could just lower the power of farms....but that also weakens the power of population, and then it becomes a seesaw of making food more important makes population less strong. There are also ideas of selling your food for money or having alternate uses for it.
But this is the time where I pose a serious question.... is food really needed in GCIV? Anytime you are trying to search for a niche for an existing game mechanic, the real question you should always ask is.... does this mechanic actually deserve to live? We humans have a very strong positive bias, we love to add and hate to subtract. Once a mechanic exists, we often fight to justify it and keep it in. And yet....sometimes the best design decisions are removals....less is more after all.
If you removed food today, left housing and hospitals to handle pop, removed the food line, removed the farming orbitals, would you actually care? And I think the honest answer is.... no, not really, the game would play out pretty much as it does today but with less clutter. Fewer but tighter and better balanced resources is not a bad thing.
Galactic Challenge System
When GC4 first came out, this was a cool innovative idea.... allow a player to push the game at their own pace. However, since it came out, this system has received very little love and has floundered over time.
First, the majority of challenges are wonder buildings. The issue is....its very exploitable for the human. You can buy all the resources you know you will need, get your supply ships ready, and then activate the challenge, immediately build the wonder without the AI having a chance to build it (and even then the AI is not very aggressive with trying to build them anyway, I think I've seen an AI sneak out a wonder one time from me in 20 games). What these wonders need is something that starts when you hit go. Perhaps there's a new resource that appears on the map that the player has to go and mine. Perhaps the wonder comes with special prereqs (such as a world has to produce 5000 manu before the wonder will unlock or something, and that clock starts when you hit the button) that the player has to work towards and cannot pre-game. In other words, wonders need to be sought after and earned, rather than just a shopping checklist where I buy X resources, build the wonder, and just move on (yawn).
The war challenges can be fun, but there are two of them that are practically identical, and they last quite a long time (88 months is practically 80% of the time of my entire gameplay).
The Orb of Draginol is probably one of the better challenges, forcing you to survey, fight, and then hunt down the orb (which normally starts a war with a race you might not have otherwise wanted to). Its a decent template for other challenges.
Overall, this system could desperately use some newer and redesigned challenges. Its a fun concept, but its being held back but the lack of attention.
Starbase Stacking
Influence has seen a number of tweaks in recent versions, and military SBs have gotten several nerfs. Economic starbases are pretty garbage at the moment, as their bonuses are incredibly expensive.
All of this can be traced down to a simple fact.... stacking starbase bonuses are really really hard to balance. Create a military SB that gives a reasonable buff to a fleet....and its horrifically overpowered when you have 3 of them stacking. If 1 economic SB gives a nice shot in the arm to your homeworld.... 6 of them gives you an unreal economy.
The game decided early on that mining starbases wouldn't stack, and it was a good decision. I now push the question to the others. Maybe its time to remove SB stacking entirely, and then you can design your SB modules to be fun and balanced without worrying about abuse.
Honorable Mention: Colony RushThe colony rush is a stable of many 4x games, but GC tends to take it to the extreme. Every game starts with a frantic dash to get every single world possible. Now we can argue how fast or slow this should be....but that's not the point of this discussion. My issue is not how fast the colony rush happens "per say", but its that there is no secondary waves of expansion. The game handles 95% of expansion in the opening 40 turns, and then its over.
In theory there are tools that should help this. The subspace strings, exotic and precursor worlds. In practice though all of these come early in the game and really don't actually provide a true "2nd era of expansion". Subspace strings just lead to other places that are also madly filling up by the civs that are present there. Even on the most extreme settings, precursor and exotic worlds remain a tiny fraction of the worlds present....and often by the time you get them those worlds are swallowed in teh influence of other civs...so its questionable whether colonizing them is a good deal.
GC4 needs a "new world" type scenario where later in the game new fertile lands open that can spur new expansion....and new conflict.
Here's one such idea as an example: Imagine that a map came with some stars and planets completely invisible at the beginning of game (aka they exist in an alternate or secondary reality or perhaps its dark matter). And then at some point in the game, a tech let you see those stars/planets, and then a later tech let you colonize them. That is one way to open up a new exploration and expansion phase with some sci-fi lore behind it.
So there's my top 5 (with bonus honorable mention thrown in). Do you agree with my list, do you have own? Add a comment!
Nice list. Much I don't agree with but good feedback.
Volley=================================I don't agree with most of this. Volley ignoring defenses is ok based on current mechanics. I do agree with the tedium of splitting fleets. That being said, looking at it further think it might be better to handle it like so.Instead of range being -20% per tile it instead lowers hit rate by 10% per tile. The range stays the same. Volley will then trigger a number of rounds of combat against where attacker and defender attack with volley weapons. Both fleets get about say rounds of volley attacks or 50 phasesRange, Hit, Weapons Involved1, -10%, Beams & Missiles2, -20%, Beams & Missiles3, -30%, Missiles only4, -40%, Missiles onlyInvasion===============================Not sure why planetary defense improvements have been removed. Think ground based gun batteries, and fortifications not only have artwork already, but they can enhance it. The other part resolve on soldiers is bugged, I think. It doesn't appear to affect transports. I think planetary defense is boosted by resolved.
That being said it's mostly doing its job.Farming System
================================Hard pass on this. There is a bit of a bug that not all citizens are accounted for. Maybe a slight reduction the power of farming districts but this system is fine and I dont see it being a problem to have bread basket worlds. Galactic Challenge System=================================================================
It seems easy and trivial because by the time you unlock galactic challenges you likely have a great economy. Think maybe removing the ability or increase the cost of rush buying galactic achievements. For instance, instead of 7.5X. Galactic Achievements would add a 12.5X multiplier making the rush by cost 20 X production cost. Starbase Stacking
================================================================= Pretty obvious how I feel. So first time in 2024 I agree with Stalker. Honorable Mention: Colony Rush
==================================- So first, the second colony rush depends on your game settings for extreme worlds and AI vs Galaxy size. This is something in the game right now.
- The problem with the new world idea is...why wouldn't you just kill your neightbors. I did try to make a case for this but it woudl be hard to get to make this worth doing.- The colony rush isn't really a problem. The AI is actually decent at handling this. The colony rush in this game is very different than other 4x games since you're colonizing to get raw resources for your core worlds. So the complete fog idea I like...but you do have to take in consideration that on Earth right now we know the temp and color of the stars in most of the milkyway galaxy. So you'll get all the complaints about realism.- Many players already complain that clicking on a star for the system data was removed so that drama will start again. That being said a true fog of war system might be nice...but this might be a hard sell for others. But it might be an idea to telescope takeover to 0 control but retain the cooldown.
--Even if you did this (which I am not opposed to) you still have the problem of just building up a fleet of supply ships and then immediately funneling them into the planet. You can't have a wonder race when you get to set off the gun and your already near the finish line. A true wonder challenge needs to start when the gun goes off, and so wonders need something that you can only start getting when you activate the challenge.
--Unfortunately even with the most recent changes extreme worlds remain way too rare. I've been playing with max extreme settings for a while now....and they still are only a small fraction of the habitable planets. The recent changes helped a little but it needs to go further. Your right that this setting could be a big help all on its own without other major changes.
I do agree that food is too easy to get but I hard disagree on removing it. The game already lacks things to build on planets. I think it is very important that at least part of each world or one dedicated world be for food. Too much of the focus is already on manufacturing and research, I don't want to diminish other planetary resources.
I agree. Every planet would consist almost entirely of factory workers & scientists, which feels lame from an immersion point also. It's a simple abstraction of survival needs but it feels necessary, if simple & shallow.
If anything had to be reworked, I'd suggest a way to convert food into other resources or buffs. More money thru trade buffs, approval buffs from citizens having cheap plentiful food OR increasing food quality that adds buffs via some mechanic (tech or otherwise). Would give a reason to be excited to see a +3 food tile knowing it can be more than just food, similar to basically every other resource.
This is already happening, because again you need just a few farms across your entire empire to feed them. Lets not forget finance buildings (that could use a rebalance but will be competitive again at some point), and there is of course housing itself.
I have posted before about the overkill problem. I have 2 suggestions for the problem:
The game already prevents you from building a starbase within 3 hexes of an existing starbase. Perhaps the logic could be modified to prevent you from building a specific type of starbase in a hex that would result in overlapping areas of influence with another starbase of the same type.
True. I guess id rather see food fleshed out instead of dropped for shallow alternatives. Events that effect food production, add a food quality mechanic of some sort, or anything that closely resembles real world civ management would be better in my opinion. But I would agree that food, as it stands, is very weak and feels almost pointless.
I agree with you on adding a later stage of land grab tho. Had never considered that and now I want to see it tried.
Also, I'm very new to GCIV so I could be very wrong. Thanks for your list of suggestions!
Starbase stacking: Theoretically I like the idea but I think it should go. As the OP pointed out, economic starbase modules are pretty underwhelming and it's hard to balance.
Considering that we get some more DLCs which add other factors to the equations it's probably better to fixate that variable in the equation.
When I played GC 3 I had teh feeling that the addition of new bonuses made the game more tedious. If you had this trait, that skill, these citizens, buildings, etc. etc. then it was humming along nicely but it takes an eternity otherwise.
I wasn't that proficient and it felt like the game was balanced around an optimized playstyle only asmall minority of pleyers knew.
Never been a fan of stacking or spamming bases.It just benefits micro,min max and is not very strategic.I would favour less bases but more important.
Not sure why the military base exists for instance as you could just add those buffs to a normal station.
I hadn't thought about it before, but Ashbery76 has a good point - there should only be a single, generic, starbase that you construct and then you can add whatever modules you want to it. What is the benefit of having different types of starbases other than limiting what modules you can add to it?
Continuing on that line of thinking, you might limit the number of modules that could be added to a basic starbase. Then you could require a constructor to add a "starbase extension" to the basic starbase to allow additional modules to be added.
You answer your own question as you ask it.
A single starbase type is a silly idea and limiting my ability to choose is worse.
For those who are a "fan of stacking or spamming" starbases.
The military base exists because they are needed, to defend areas and buff nearby fleets.
I do not believe that having a single basic starbase limits your ability to choose. What it does is move your choices to the modules you add to the basic starbase from the type of starbase you choose to build.
In fact, the game seems to already be moving in this direction by allowing Mining starbases to add components that were previously only available on Military starbases. The screen snapshot below shows the modules that are available for me to add to one of my mining starbases. I may be wrong, but I believe the Slipstream Generator used to only be available on Military starbases.
The bottom line is whether you should have different types of starbases that limit what you can put on them or a generic starbase that lets you choose the modules you want to add to it. Personally, I can live with the current system of specialized starbases, but I like the idea of a generic starbase that can hold a specific number of modules and a starbase extender that allows you to add an additional number of modules. This would be similar to the concept of a maximum "mass" for ships that can be increased by researching the appropriate technologies. The game does not restrict how you use the available mass, it just enforces the maximum limit.
I don't think you need to limit the number of modules on a generic star base.
You want to build a super complex fine, but remember the bigger it gets the more of a target it becomes, and the bigger the negative impact on the builder if it is destroyed.
Re: a second colony rush... One method I can think of is to have various techs after exotic worlds which would allow you to colonize the dead worlds. You could make these worlds usable by utilizing say "colonize level 3 worlds", etc. These would still be inhospitable frontier type worlds and besides the tech needed they would also require a fair bit of credits and resources, making it not too easy to expand.
You could take the MOO approach and replace most "dead" worlds with various types of inhospitable world, each with their own colonisation tech. So instead of exotic and extreme, it's ocean, barren, radioactive, toxic, magma, etc. Probably the most extreme types should be quite biased to non-core candidates (to avoid multiplying micro) but possibly with big innate resources.
To me, a "new world" scenario would be more like many new star systems become available at once and there is a scramble to claim them. I think that would most naturally be done by having additional sectors at map creation that have no player civs in them. These new sectors would require a higher-level tech to access (or maybe some event gives access at some randomish point in the game).
that’s a solid idea, have a tier 2 sub space portal tech later in the game, which would likely be a fairly simple change to encode
I would like to see engines and range components be great again.Seem little point to them at present imo.
I think this is mostly a side-effect of the game's model of ship design. You have components that take a fixed amount of space and give a fixed boost to some ship stat. That works well enough for weapons but doesn't scale well for other types of stats, like range, speed or evasion. You either make it too hard for small ships to get good stats or too easy for big ships to get good stats. So the pressure builds to get most of the relevant stat from a basic "tech" bonus and otherwise disallow stacking or set the cost at values that are prohibitive for most ship types.
I guess even revealing new connections between starting sectors could change the stellar geography and "who is worried about who" quite a bit.
I'd really like volleys to follow more of the regular combat rules - normal targeting and normal use of defences. I guess that would probably have to go hand-in-hand with defences not getting fully reset between battles. You could imagine shields rebuilding to 100% and armour recovering 50% per turn, rather than at the start of every combat. While we are at it, hitpoint recovery could be percentage-based. Actually I'd probably make shield and armour recovery scale with hitpoint percentage, so it would be hard for a deeply damaged ship to fully recover shields and armour.
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