One of the challenges we have in setting up maps is the question of how quickly should players be meeting other civilizations in the game? How quickly should things show up? How much should the game direct you?
I decided to take a hard look at GalCiv II and GalCiv III to see how different those first 20 turns worked out.
Turn 1:
Ooh money.
vs.
Ship build list comparison:
Way less screen dirt and simple explanations.
There is a button that says purchase on the screen:
So I press that. I notice this versus the tiny buy button in the queue in GalCiv III which I didn’t notice because ther’es only a few buttons on this screen to notice.
The first turn also gave me a bunch of money which trained me to think that money must matter.
Survey ship has a lot of moves:
We are still on turn 1.
News announcement:
Turn 2:
Loading ship.
I send my ship to Mars.
I am asked to name it.
Text is pretty terrible but it’s pretty.
Mars sucks.
Got my third planet (on turn 2)
Ugly ugly text. But Good, Neutral and Evil are pretty clearly spelled out along with funny text.
I choose evil.
This bit of personality helps with engagement.
Survey ship finds more stuff.
This sort of text is engaging.
Research screen has the tree and the list on the same screen. The benefit of each one is pretty obvious.
Turn 3:
I meet an alien on turn 3.
Survey ship finds more neat little stuff.
Turn 4:
Turn 5:
Turn 6:
I definitely want Universal translators now
Turn 7:
Second alien:
I like that I can see how long it will take the ship to build from this screen.
Turn 8:
Turn 9:
Turn 10:
I choose warfare next.
Minor civ:
Strategic map is clean looking.
Turn 11:
I am feeling collective pressure.
Humans are diplomats so they start with the ability to get good techs.
I’m getting fun trades right out of the gate.
Turn 12:
Nothing
Turn 13:
Look how noticeable the mines on the asteroids are? I also like that there is a ship going around building these.
Turn 14:
Another colony:
Turn 15:
All this money helps me jump start my planets.
Espionage?
Turn 16:
Takes 20 weeks to build a ship unless you rush it. But I get a bunch of money from plentiful anomalies which I’m scooping up fast because so is everyone else.
Turn 17:
Yay us!
Turn 18:
Turn 19:
Turn 20:
Nothing.
There’s a reason this game is considered the best space 4X game of all time by many. Clean UI. Great pacing. Obvious gameplay (especially for the time).
My ratings for GalCiv II:
Now, let’s look at GalCiv III.
I realize I’m pretty critical here, but this is so that we can make sure GalCiv IV is better.
This is nice. But it would be cooler if this was presented as a cut-scene. Meanwhile..blah blah.
And then this came up. This UI is really ugly and hard to read.
I take the free ship.
Nothing. Ships move.
My survey ship is attacked.
Super ugly confirmation screen. I’d rather the game camera panned to the action and showed me the battle.
More pirates attack.
I wish my survey ship leveled up and got goodies.
So ugly. There’s no tooltips to even explain what benevolent and such means. What does +10% influence mean?
I choose the malevolent one because +10% research sounds best.
No direction on what I should do here.
I choose the one that gives me a ship.
No suggestions given. The thing on the right should be a tooltip. I choose the scientist.
I choose weapons.
Colonized another planet.
These bonuses mean nothing to me. I choose the benevolent one since it’s just plain better.
I choose the tech which gives me stuff.
There are 9 players on this map and I still haven’t met any.
Finally!
Colony ship built. I send it to one of the good planets I’ve found. The strategic zoom UI is really good making it easy to manage my empire.
I don’t feel like I’ve earned being able to crank these ships out in 2 turns.
Now I choose universal translator.
I think faster moving scouts (and the AI making them aggressively) would really help. But a scout takes 2 turns just like a colony ship!
Earth is fully built up in 19 turns!
Rex has a shipyard too. Planet is barely developed but can crank out a colony ship in 4 turns!
Pretty.
Got another culture point.
I want to build military ships but they are hidden:
So I wouldn’t notice them.
It’s still a good game despite my complaints. But the pacing and UX needs work.
My ratings:
The most recent GalCiv III update coming out (v4.2) includes some improvements in these areas. But again, how quickly do people want to meet new players? IMO, this is where minor civilizations might be interesting as a middle step.
As a player, how would you like to see your setup screen improved (specific options) to help cater to your personal pacing preferences?
________________________________________________________
Galactic Civilizations IV Dev Journals
#1 - Welcome to GalCiv IV
#2 - Humanizing AI
#3 - Addressing Micromanagement
#4 - A Guided ALPHA Tour
#5 - The Ideology Compass
#6 - Those First 20 Turns
#7 - The Changing Face of Space Robots
#8 - Rise of the Commanders
#9 - Onboarding
#10 - Do we need a battle viewer?
#11 - Combat AAR
#12 - AAR Drengin Human Wars I Part 1
#13 - The Vault
#14 – Pacing Comparisons
#15 - Internal Factions
#16 - The Battle Viewer
#17 - Screenshot Time
#18 - The Dawn of the 24th Century
#19 - The Roadmap
#20 - Deals of the Xeloxi + v1.04 Preview
#21 - The Arcean War + 1.05 Preview
#22 - Save Me
#23 - Every Turn Counts
But I really like minor civ at different science advancement and with interactions with them (help them, enslave them, destroy them, be god to them and influence them to be benevolent or violent). So I do hope a lot of possibilities for them.
The most recent GalCiv III update coming out (v4.2) includes some improvements in these areas. But again, how quickly do people want to meet new players? IMO, this is where minor civilizations might be interesting as a middle step.As a player, how would you like to see your setup screen improved (specific options) to help cater to your personal pacing preferences?
I'd prefer to not meet other empires in the first 10 turns.
I for sure would like a setup screen that lets me select the number (0-4) of other empires starting in my Sector, because 4 is for sure way too mamy and that's what I keep getting when I set the Sector size to Huge and play with all other empires.
I definitely would prefer that if I'm sharing my home sector with other empires that they be somewhat more of a challenge on Normal difficulty rather than the absolute cakewalk conquering them all would be. I actually have taken to trying to maintain positive relations with all 4 neighbors as that's somewhat more challenging than using my military might to smush them like the annoying gnats they are.
Also, their order in the setup screen shouldn't determine which empires start with me in my Sector. Current build (0.45.188742) without changing the order in 4 different restarts I got the exact same 4 other empires in my home Sector each time.
Yes. GalCiv 2 is a great game. I would really like it if you guys could keep making updates for it. A shame that its now hard to program for. I have a list of bugs of things that I'd like fixed or improved.As for GalCiv 3, it did miss some special magic. I'm not sure how to say this, but it seemed like the various parts didn't work together that well.
I'd prefer to not meet other empires in the first 10 turns.I for sure would like a setup screen that lets me select the number (0-4) of other empires starting in my Sector, because 4 is for sure way too mamy and that's what I keep getting when I set the Sector size to Huge and play with all other empires.
It is worse than you think I have set it to 5 enemies and get 4 in home sector and the patch notes state they have lessened the number that will show up in the latest versions were I never got more than 2. So in every game I have to kill off 80% of my opponents before I can explore the Galaxy. Because if I do not they surely will gang up on me.
In short, I think if players want to play Tall, that would be more acheivable if their Starting Twenty Turns gave them one of:
One decent - ie PQ 10 or better - planet nearby.
One or two Artefacts in the first couple of planets, whatever PQ those planets are.
A bunch of Resources On-Planet and Off-Planet nearby. 3 Resources sounds about right - they don't all have to be Elerium or whatever, but 3 Resources at any rate. Incidentally, in the GalCiv3 forum I suggested changing the resources required for any Tech/Weapon/Shield to change from being, say, 1 Antimatter to make a missile to being 1 Second Most Common Resource In The Galaxy to make a missile. I thought that would get rid of the "well, I can't build that decent Missile Thrower ship I designed because because it needs Antimatter and there is no Antimatter in the Galaxy!" feeling. My post wasn't met with hundreds of Huzzah!s, however, so maybe that's not too popular...
I'm not a huge fan of seeing the Drengin knock-knock-knocking on my door early but I'd be fine if a Minor Civilization spawned in my sector. But that MC needs to have something special that makes me want to be nice to them (they have plenty of money/plenty of resources or an Artefact or a Tech - unique to that MC ie Only Artefact/Tech In The Galaxy rare - they'd like to give me or sell me, but only after I've been oh so nice and polite with the flowers and wine for a while and I mean quite a while), not exploit them from the Turn we meet and then 15-20 Turns later, "Oh, so sorry, Mr/Miss Minor Civilization, but I like your Home Planet. Time to die."
Maybe have an Option where you can pick Sector Size and that determines - at least in part - how many other Civilizations are in your Starting Sector. As caboose_corsair points out, you definitely shouldn't get the same dang Civilizations meeting you in your Sector every time, but how would it work to pick a Large Sector Size and know (RNG etc aside) that you'll most likely have 3-4 Civilizations in your Starting Sector?
As for Tooltips, I think those could be fleshed out more. What do I get for doing Option A rather than Option B, both once the Option's finished/built and what it might lead me to doing or cut me off from doing further on? If there is no Option B for whatever reason, then, yes, highlight the Option I have so I'm not tossing up choices that I actually don't have. My approach being I'm Boss Man, not Expert Man, so give me the info and then stand back and watch me, Your Great Leader screw it up with all the information at his fingertips rather than screw it up with guesswork.
aw man you got me digging out my old Galciv2 Ultimate CD off the shelf and installing it! Trying to find the patches now ... not easy to find?
This is a good write up. With the change on how maps are laid out and the use of Sectors, I can see the need to have an alien interaction in the sector the player starts out with. On Large sectors this has taken me about 15 turns to meet a civ within my sector.
If there were no aliens in my sector I would be lonely and not have any trade or interaction diplomatically until I researched both technologies needed to see streams and cross them. This would go from meeting an alien in the first 20 turns to far longer. Some players reporting that they did not cross into a new sector until after 100 or even 200 turns. This would make a boring game.
So the need to have aliens in your starting sector is needed. Some discussion on Discord has quite a few suggestions.
Myself and a few have advocated for an option to dictate how many aliens start in your players sector.
Other suggestions have been to allow the player to choose which races will start nearby. I personally don't like this option as surprise makes the game more engaging but players play how they want.
I think the tool tip advisor we have now is good but can be improved.
I like the idea of seeing how long ships take to build within the planetary build screen.
I look forward to what comes next in Galactic Civilizations IV!
Agree with Larsenex on selecting # of majors in home sector. An option for there being at least one unoccupied sector if possible, with the Human Player being first would be perfect for me.
I do not wish to trade with you, speak to you or listen to your whiney voice AI go away.
That's another option I would like an AI no contact with me option. Say 3, 6, 9,or 12 months and a when the AI is ready to die it can declare war option.
I know some decisions are based on game balance. So I am ok with not getting credit for some achievements if I chose some of the options mentioned that " unbalance " the game, however it should be my choice. The reason most people play games is for fun, some play in competitions, some play because they do not have a life, or like me who play for fun because I don't have a life.
I love minor civs! I really think Age of Wonders 3 is a great example of pacing for meeting both major and minor civs. Maybe because it's a rectangular map and everyone starts equidistant. If you could have options for where to spawn civs when loading a new map, maybe that would help.
Hello,
I find you're unfair with GalCiv 3 ,even if it's "so that we can make sure GalCiv IV is better", in comparaison with GC 2.
I don't know on wich version of GC3 you played for your example, but it's certainly not the 4.1 because main part of your critics are false.
I've never played GC2 so I can give you my first impression based on your screenshots.
GC2 _ "the UI is pretty clean" with two-thirds of buttons and information' cells hiding map with empty space, with an buttom bar almost empty with several obscur icons with exception for the graph and the tech buttons. All first information are packed on the buttom where it's more unconfortable to maintain your look and where it's the last screen's area where I'll have a look because I grew up in Europe where we learn to read from top left to buttom right. I guess it's the same in US.
GC3 _ "No on-screen direction on what I should do". The first thing I see starting a new game is my planet selected with my hovering cursor instantly opening a pop-up window with "queue empty" as a boundary between two sorts of information' layout. Exploring further the first view, I find a top-left rectangle with "not researching". Maybe there is something to do there. To be sure, there's a reminder "research" on the buttom right preventing you to pass your turn before selecting a tech to research.
GC3 _ "No on-screen explanation on what the ships do". Just maybe their names: colony ship, constructor, survey ship, scout. Do we really need more to understand what's the purpose of these ships?
GC3 _ "No anomalies (...) for my survey ship (...) so I just move it". Because "automate" is more visible or obvious than "command" button to give order to your ship to act by it self? We could replace them by a "be yourself" button or "live your own life" (a little bit too long).
GC3 _ "No hint on that it affects things in range". So you click on a constructor and discover an hex centred around (what you don't have with any other ship) but you don't understand that there'll be an effects area inside these edges? I'm not Sherlock Holmes, but I directly understood that first time I used a constructor in GC3. For sure I'm not alone.
Here are first points of turn 1. I won't go further because I should pass my day on it and also this topic is not a debate between GC2 and 3.
Then I'll answer to your question about setup screen to improve my personal pacing preferences as player:
1. Don't add unwelcome pop-up advices or flickering edges coming on every 10 sec or followed by 5 others in a row disturbing me from my game. Many games now take players for dummies stopping game or polluting screen to "explain" how to play. Let me play in peace, please, and discover the game by myself. It doesn't mean "do not give any information" but "give me information when I ask for it with a direct access to it" what I already encounter pretty well in GC3 with pop-up when I stay with my cursor over something I want to know more about.
2. Continue to use transparency to let me see what stay in background and don't have a hard break between current map and information windows.
3. Simplify minimap. I can only make out influence areas and star points. Ships, planets, anomalies, rally points (these ones, I can also see other players' ones what is unfair and useless, polluting my minimap) are undistinguishable without having to zoom in a lot. For that, I'd better do to watch directly on main map. I use minimap to have an overwiew and easly pan the camera on great distance. For boths aspects, I need to quickly and easily be able to discern wanted locations.
Edited 30/07: Replace minimap by a large strategic map called/closed by pressing a key as we can find in fps games on which we could easily spot information and plot markers.
4. A suggestion about starbase: when you select a module to construct (before to start construction) maybe it could be interesting to have affected things colorised with an overlay so you could directly see if there is an benefit to choose this one. Same idea with constructor travelling through hexs with potential affected things colorised.
5. About color, colorising text and use pictos to easily identify possibilities with idiologic dilemma could be a nice step back to GC2, but with the new idiology system (what is a feature I really hope lots of improvement in game fun and deep relations between civs) and 14 different idiologies it could be hard in practice to memorise refered color and picto for each idiology.
6. An enhanced mix of GC2 and GC3 building list. In GC2, buildings have a second string explaining what brings this last, reuse it but replacing text by the direct value of given bonus (e.g. +10% (approval picto)). In GC3, there are filters to sort buildings by types but they keep all buildings in the list. Set these filters as real filters removing all non relevant buildings so selecting research filter only show buildings improving research basically sorted by biggest bonus value on top with possibility to sort them by turns cost to complete.
So we'd had on left building's icon | in centre two strings with name above and given bonus beneath | a number followed by a hourglass on right.
I don't know how many icons there're with the new drag and drop system to build but if there're a lot I fear it becomes a mess of multiple icons.
7. Give possibility to minimize "summarize", "planets", "fleets"... windows and minimap and hold them minimized until I request them.
8. Use filters or pop-up icons to avoid to have to scroll through 30 listed things or to have to open 1, 2 or more windows before to get what I want. E.g., in GC3, if I discovered 40 planets colonised by me or available to colonisation, I have to scroll a lot to find information about one specific. Also in GC3, if I want to open United Planets window, I have to open Diplomatic one first then seek the button to open U.P. window. In GC4, I could hover the cursor on diplomatic icon what open above it icons to open U.P. or Treaties. Also we could use flags to determinate role of fleets or planets. In GC3, to more easily find back a specific planet I have to rename them based on their role (Food 1, Money 1, Tech 1, etc.). In place, we could have to just attribute a flag (the best would be to allow player to customise them) used in a filters' system.
9. In GC3, population max cap is determinated by planet's class, it would be nice to see this piece of information directly shown in-game hovering planet class value for example.
About game tempo now:
1. As a GC3 player, I find early and mid game have already a good tempo because it's a run to achieve most interesting galactic wonders before AI, a run to find ressources (antimatter for Hyperspace Project, Artocarpus, Arnor, Monsatium, Techapod...), a run to find best planets with high class value. Even if you don't meet other civs, you're form start engaged in this run to set up a more favourable position. In my games, tempo slows down in late game when AI persist to build 7 hexs move speed ships and take 20 turns to build a big ship when I build a full fleet in 4 turns with ships able to cross 165 hexs a turn. Even giving all best techs to my ennemies and waiting tens of turns to let them integrate these techs, it's what make me feel the game is running on dead slow in late game.
Edited 30/07: We could even speak about "non met yet"/ ship range pressure. Personally, I don't mind to meet béni-oui-oui civs in 5, 10, 20 or 100 turns, they're all birds for the cat. The stress comes with agressive civs that will declare war on you as soon as they can reach your planets with their ships
2. Another point is the number of planets to colonise, to conquer, the mountain of little useless fleets to crush and others painful tasks are so many things making me feel spending my turns to complete the same repetitive and boring action. I know that the new core world/ colonies system should solve a part of that, but not for me. I already use a similar system in my games. I colonise few very good planets (15 max) and let AI's colonise all the rest, granting me ressources and wealth via friendly deals, galactic market or peace deal. I fear to be obligated to spend my time in a boring wide colonisation with this core worlds system.
3. I have a request for GC4 and to maintain a longer threat from AI, add an option in new game setups to let computer choose a random number of opponents. This way, until far late game I would never be sure that an ennemy is not suddenly coming in my back.
4. Add rare and mighty galactic disasters that affects alsmost every players and reshuffles a stagnant situation, forcing to adapt and rebuild your bases (I know it could disgust some players to lose a lot without being able to prevent it)
I don't know for you but for me, the most funny phase of a game is the early game when everything waits to be done.
To summarise, as player, I'd like to have needed information easily, shortly (concise form) and quickly available when I request them, in addition with customised management allowing automatisation (learn to delegate) to prevent repetitive actions, all that to help me to stay focus on the developement of my civ through long term events and evolving relations with other civs.
One thing I loved about GalCiv3 was the ability to change game pacing and research rate. I've always felt that while exploring and researching and building is fun I want my game to be full of challenges, domestic or external. I like to meet Alien races early. In GalCiv3 it was usually at that point where I pivoted my strategy to "oh shit, its time to build military ships" and without that its too easy to go crazy with optimizing colonizing tech.
Colony building is fun, but there needs to be sense of purpose. Not letting my colonies starve, missions( a refreshing idea, but they so far feel like an array of side quests that mean nothing), and fighting aliens for survival/supremacy is what always made the game fun for me.
I'm not sure if this will be adopted in GalCiv4 but the idea of the Galactic Bazar was a cool idea. It let you know there was more life out there without threatening you. The problem with the Bazar was that you could buy super OP ships that allowed you to steamroll enemy fleets or massively increase production. If its brought back those would need to be toned down. Perhaps you could roll the bazar into missions.
Also, I haven't made it past turn 20 or 30 in my games so far in 4 but is the Galactic Council still a thing? Always liked that aspect as it reminds me of Politics from Twilight Imperium. In fact, the more like Twilight Imperium in general the better. I love that board game.
Hm...
This journal is really meh.
I fairly agree with Twinping's post. GC3 thing is over exaggerated for no point. The game really tells you what to do, and we have that in GC4 as well, it is in Civs too - the turn button telling you to do all this and that before you can even do next turn. You literally HAVE to do all of the things or you can't even play.
Meeting Aliens too early is just bad. The universe should be BIG, and GalCiv always catered to have huge maps, so there is no real reason to find everyone just in direct neighbourhood so it gives you artificial early challenge. It should take long time before you meet others.BUT it should not clear you from early struggles. There were talks about GC4 having sub-races, that will be automatically generated and such. That should be applied for this. Your initial sector should NOT ever have Drengins or Arceans when you play as Terran. It should have Terran Resistance, it should have Alpha Centauri Human Rebels, or maybe just Russians doing their own colonization and not obeying the American. The diplomatic and military struggle in your own sector should be with factions that have mutual racial base (e.q. also humans). That way you will retain early challenge, but will get rid of artificial "smallness" of the universe, as there will be more sectors to find and each of them will have new and interesting aliens. Maybe that means you have to double the amount of races that will be there on release - so each race has the domestic split, and the other race is forever tied to each other with common roots. But is that bad? I don't think so at all.
The culmination of such split in starting sector can be done in multiple ways. You already have event system that is great for this. You can make events that give you multiples of choices, and splitting outcomes. Do you want to unite with the other race and make permanent alliance? Do you want to conquer them? Or maybe just not talk to each other? Those should be there, and if you don't wipe them off, they should be the most active faction cooperating with you. Make it feel as if you played coop with some other human if you choose to ally with them. Don't make them the typical whiny aliens that contact you every third turn asking for money, because their economy is trash.
The tooltips are though indeed missing. We were talking on this with Derek already, and I hope that all ideology choices will indeed have current information on what you are actually choosing. Though, this is an issue in long term - in all GC games, you can't just press "let me consult my advisors" button to check stats. AI contacts you with a deal? Can't postpone. Event happening? Can't look anywhere, not even on the affected planet. Literally everything is "choose now lol", with only current text on screen to help you make a choice. Informed choice? Only if you really remember whole state of the game. I personally have fairly good memory on this, but it still sucks and makes the game's choices just feel bad. Can't even imagine someone who has bad memory. Do they take notes on paper to even be able to play the game????? For this it would be great upgrade to actually get the 2 monitors support, so you can have 2 active windows, where you could peek into all the infoscreens on one of them, while locked to event in the other.
I still consider GC3 as upgrade to GC2 in practically all areas. Don't ruin GC4 by going backwards where it is not warranted.
Yeah I like meeting aliens a little later also ... adds to the "mystery" and "awe" of meeting a new race for the first time.
Feedback: some of the survey relics in GC4 introduce new species i.e. Yor colinists even before you have met the first race ... there probably should either be certain timings for relics like this, or perhaps there could be a bigger story wrapped around who these Yor colonists are and how your race responds to them.
I'd love to see some form of a client state system implemented in GC4. This could allow for some meaningful early interactions that help the starting sector to not need so many major powers in order to keep early gameplay compelling. The system can also be more flushed out to eventually earn enough loyalty that the minor power becomes a sort of protectorate, exchanging a small but meaningful bonus in return for protection/completion of quests. The event quest system might work well for this, though perhaps having a quest screen or minors diplomacy tab accessed through the icon row at the bottom rather than clumping them in the notification area would be a better way to manage this.
Ultimately, this system could add features like "colonization rights" whereby permanently ceding control of a Colony world would give a slight increase to the static bonus given by that minor race, or gift a one-time boost in resources, a ship, research points, food production, etc. This would not only make minor powers a more compelling addition to the gameplay, but could also add some interesting choices to expansion gameplay, rather than simply defaulting to a race to gain the capacity to feed the most colony worlds.
It would also provide a lever by which devs can better balance some gameplay/resource generation issues (like 9 of 10 starts not getting any nearby techapods despite them being mandatory for Economic starbases). If certain techs are favored as early gifts/quest rewards, this system would also provide a way to soften the risk that the RNG behind tech card picks seal a player in their sector for too long by denying them Subspace Streaming.
I also like meeting aliens a little later... or even much later in the game
I think there's a fantastic opportunity for GalCiv4 to make the first 20 to 100 turns really fun, rewarding and engaging without needing to interact with a major civilization. Considering the new mechanics like core systems, sectors and AI characters; alongside exploring, expanding and exploiting whatever they happen to discover in their sector, the player really can have a lot of fun spending the early part of the game implementing and shaping their vision of their civilization without needing to interact with another major civilization.
Also, I think there are a lot of players that find it odd/counter intuitive that they encounter other major civilizations early in the game. This is probably because in reality people know just how vast space is and that even our own solar system is vast. Apparently there's a massive 9th planet that we haven't even directly detected yet! People also know that we've been searching for extraterrestrial life for over a century and still haven't found anything conclusive. There was the SETI 'WOW signal', but that is considered an anomaly. So after all this time we haven't even discovered alien microbial life let alone entire alien civilizations. As a side note, one of the reasons there's a lot of excitement around the Mars Perseverance rover is because it is designed specifically to look for alien microbial life.
Anyway, I think a lot of people go into a game like GalCiv with reality in their subconscious extrapolating what they expect to happen in game i.e. they don't expect an alien civilization to start right in their face; especially if they're playing as humans.
Suggestion
I think during the game setup, players should be able to set the parameters of their starting sector as much as possible. There should be a maximum number of civilizations per sector depending on size. So for example a small sector would have a maximum of 2 or 3 civilizations and a large sector would have a maximum of 5 or 6 civilizations. RNG would determine the actual number of starting civilizations in any given sector. So for example, in a large sector there's a chance that no other civ spawns, or only 1 civ spawns or the maximum number of civs spawn or any number inbetween.
I also think that if the player doesn't want to be at the mercy of the RNG they should be able to choose how many civs start in their sector. If they want to be the only civ that starts in their sector then they should be able to select 0. If they want the maximum number of civs for their chosen sector size then they should be able to select whatever that number is.
This would probably be helpful for modding as well e.g. if u wanted to make a Star Trek mod you'd want to be able to select how many civs start in any given sector. I'm sure Star Trek modders would love to be able to create the actual Star Trek map in galciv4 with all the factions in their correct starting positions.
Could we get a map with all the stock GalCiv 4 civs in starting positions according to GalCiv lore please?
Another suggestion would be to allow the player to choose the minimum spawning distance of other civs to the player's capital.
A galaxy that 'feels' alive
In dev journal 2 you talked about AI characters and how important they will be to making the galaxy feel alive. I think in the first 20 to 100 turns, interactions with these AI characters as well as the following:
Will mean that even if a player chooses to be the only civilization in their starting sector, the first 20 to 100 turns will still be really fun, rewarding and engaging as there will be plenty of exploring, expanding and exploiting to do before even meeting a major civilization.
Personnally, I don't play GalCiv 3, or 4 later, expecting to get the real feeling of a Universe explorer. I can easily switch off my subconscious awareness (free little double oxymoron) just like while I watch Star Wars, Gravity or Battlestar Galactica. It doesn't prevent me enjoying it.
For me, space and time in GC are not about physical reality but about gameplay.
Space between planets, nebulae, black holes means that:
_ travel range has a deep impact on gameplay (diplomatic, military and economic) because some ressources/civs are out of reach;
_ fleet speed has a deep impact on gameplay because you can't send your fleet to "west" and come back in two turns to defend against a ennemy attacking in your "eastern" back;
_ hypergates have a real interest to be built when you know all it costs (turns and admin - in GC3) to set a hyperlane;
_ you don't find every needed different rare ressources in 20 turns. Often, a more lucky civ found and colonised planet(s) with desired ressources before you because you explored in the wrong direction - space is wide (thank you Captain Obvious!) and you don't have that much ships - or because these planets are closer to this lucky civ;
_ colony ship's speed has an impact on gameplay because turns needed to construct the ship and reach a good planet involve to make a choice between planets to serve my strategy. I don't care, and don't want, to spend my (real life) time to colonise hundreds of useless or barely usefull planets when I find much funnier to determinate a strategy, plan strategic colonisations and feed my rancour against an innocent civilisation which has just colonised a planet I wanted 2 turns before I reach it.
What about time in GC? Don't look for realistic time cost while you accept there is a universal simultaneous week counter that rules uniformly the whole galaxy (turn-based game). That means:
_ it doesn't matter if construct a colony ship takes 2 turns when a scoot needs 1; in late game, everything costs 1 turn. What matters, it's what these time costs involve on the gameplay.
A little example to illustrate my words: I played a lot to Rome 2: Total War and I tried a mod called "4 turns a year" (vanilla game version is one turn a year) to hold my generals alive a few more but acting also on research rate and building speed because I initially found that made sense. So now my generals live four times longer and what happened? My family tree became quickly overpopulated, I used a third of what the game offers because it took so much time to unlock techs and achieve buildings, I won the game with basics troops and ships.
What I mean this way, is that I don't want to feel stuck in my game because I'm artificially slowed down (e.g. having to colonise dozens/hundreds of planets with colony ships requiring too much turns to be constructed) just to make sense.
I don't want to see my work and patience be rewarded by a too short expiry date (like Rome 2's generals who die of old age with half of their potential unlocked or GC ships became useless because new hulls and weapons techs are unlocked). I red GC4 ships use a system of modules. Great news! Let me be able to keep my little favourites with earned unique modules, lots of kills, great battle survivor... (everything showing them singular to my eyes) alive by updating them replacing old modules by more high-tech new ones. Give me the power to become attached to my ships and grant them my love through care and modules' update like Bill Adama (and all his crew) did with the Battlestar Galactica.
_ having to face too many agressive close opponents is really tiring and annoying because you feel obligated to focus on military aspect of the game when you know that other civs can develop their wealth quietly. Ask to the Russians how it's hard to maintain an army when your economy declines in comparaison with other nations. Implicitly and de facto, there's always a race between nations/civs even if you hadn't already met them. Do you think Native Americans felt ready when they met conquering Europeans? In Galactic Civilizations, we have an advantage: we know there're unkown ennemies out there.
Once again, it's not because you don't see something that it means it doesn't exist and it's not able to act on you.
Or to quote a poet in Small Soldiers: "Just because you can't see something doesn't mean it's not there".
Could we get a map with all the stock GalCiv 4 civs in starting positions according to GalCiv lore please
I love this suggestion! Fantasy games all have lore based maps with homelands clearly delineated. Why can't we have this in a space game?
We do already have some established lore-based positioning of systems. For example, we know that the Xendar are (were?) roughly Haven-ward from the Sol system. And so on based on the other Campaign scenarios.
If there are new campaigns with GC4, they'll be additional data points. It probably won't be too difficult for a modder to create a map at some point, assuming the devs don't themselves do it.
Hello, I've to confess of mistake of mine. There's already an option allowing to upgrade your ships with new modules to keep them up to date when they're moored in station or on planet. Sorry for that mistake, but I still would like to see more visual and/or foreground effects to recognise quickly how a ship or a fleet is singular due to its battles experience or unique modules composition.
The one thing that broke GC3 for me above all others was that new colonies basically paid for themselves from the start.
In GC2, you had to balance your expansion with your ability to economically support your new worlds until they developed enough to be net positive.
In GC3, it was a blind rush to as many worlds as possible before everybody else grabbed them up.
The GC2 way made so much more sense, and it involved much better choices for a longer time (strategic position vs. PQ etc.).
Hope its not too late for more comments...
First, I'd like to make a point regarding 4X games in general; Explore, Expand, Exploit, Exterminate. Additionally, the context here is a space empire.
The point is that most 4X space games, aren't. I didn't play GalCiv III much, compared to GalCiv II, because I was thrust into Exterminate almost immediately. Usually, I would run into AI while still looking (exploring) for colonies within my initial ship range limits. While I wasn't exactly forced into a war, AI colonizing on several sides of my starting position EVERY game (I tested it with galaxy size/type and number of opponents) prevented both Exploration and Expansion of my fledgling empire.
Sure, I could Exploit technology and Ideology, build custom player civilizations, or only select particular opponents from the get-go to try and generate a small group of highly specialized colonies to grab a toe-hold in the galaxy, but that's, essentially, just a fast-track start to Exterminate. In the process, I'd often re-build colonies (destroy-rebuild colony tiles) to meet urgent needs, not experience the intended (I presume) gameplay to which the original colony tiles might have contributed given a less directed game start.
GalCiv IV is a game of Galactic Proportions, of empires expanding into the unknown. Of utilizing what you discover to pursue your in-game goals in a variety of different ways. Each term of the 4X moniker is a valuable step in the game, with its own appeal to players.
If nothing else, I would love to see a way (galaxy size or type or even game mode) to allow some type of empire formation (via Explore and Expand) PRIOR to the Exterminate portion kicking in. If I didn't see an opponent AI for a hundred turns (or more), but had to work at exploration and expansion to actually build a minimal empire (functioning set of colonies with a minimal resource set) in GalCiv IV, it would be great. I could actually follow an Ideology in-game, instead of exploiting them for short-term gain as needed.
IMHO,
Searcher
The GC4 Alpha .65 release currently has a starting option where you can start alone in your sector. You (and the AI) will have to research two techs to be able to travel to other sectors to meet the other races.
Thank you.
Obviously, I don't have the Alpha GC IV; I'm in some other Alpha/Beta testing and don't have the time to commit. At least, that's my excuse until I actually get it.
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