As the title states Deskscapes no longer functions after latest Windows 10 Fall update 1809, hopefully we can get a fix soon, the update has only just been released but I thought it might be important info for those who haven't updated yet.
Generally speaking when new versions come out, there will be a discount for those who own the prior versions and some customers will get a free upgrade. I don't know the date that will be chosen for that (you can't buy DS10 standalone currently), but I would certainly imagine anyone purchasing right now will get the free upgrade and the odds are good that it would run back until perhaps purchases made direct since 1809 was released. Though that is a guess and NOT a statement of company policy!
Where the websites say Windows 10, they mean the version of Windows 10 that existed at the time of the website being updated. Microsoft have made a total mess of things by deciding to call everything Windows 10 but then in reality have a new OS every 6 months (We are now on the 7th version of Windows 10). It is worth noting that you are not required to update to the latest and greatest though and they offer at least 18 months support on any given version, so 1803 is supported until November this year and even 1709 continues to be supported until later this year.
I appreciate you are frustrated and I am sorry that the 8.51 version of DeskScapes was broken in some circumstances by a new version of the Microsoft Operating System, but the blame for this is not with us (the same code works on 7, 8, 8.1, 10 original, 10 November update, 10 Anniversary update, 10 Creators update, 10 Fall Creators update and 10 April 2018 update).
instead of locking the beta to "Subs" could we get the beta for people that already own DS8 .. your missing a huge opportunity in some one like me stress testing this software on there current pcs as well as there skip head and fast ring system.. like I have
" It is worth noting that you are not required to update to the latest and greatest though "
Erm. Forced updates remember? We Are required to update.
Delaying is very possible especially if you run pro.
https://www.windowscentral.com/how-delay-windows-10-redstone-5-update-update-while-still-getting-updates?amp
Neil, you're missing the point.
I've worked in IT and you know as well as I do, that delaying an upgrade has it's limits. And even then, Microsoft eventually forces you to "Upgrade" your OS, even if you are on Pro. If you're on Home, you get even less control over it. So regardless of what version of the OS you're on, you don't have anywhere near as much control over the upgrade process as you are alluding to. On top of that, you as someone selling software, can not reasonably tell your customers to go out and buy an entirely different level of an OS (a considerably more expensive version of the SAME OS. Another version of the SAME OS that you know people CAN'T simply Upgrade to, They have to buy an ENTIRELY new key to get) just so they can "DELAY" something that is ultimately inevitable.
On top of that, most every other software provider IS keeping their software up to date to support the latest OS version. Most are even losing support for their software on older versions of Win10 (such as Internet Security software) and only officially supporting the latest versions of Windows. You can not reasonably expect your customers to take constant steps to prevent updates (updates that CAN put their machines at risk if you don't install them) just so they can keep running the one or two software packages they purchased from you. That would be unreasonable enough if it wasn't for the fact that most people don't know as much about how computers work as you or I do. You can not expect your customers who are not knowledgeable about computers to even know "how" to take those kinds of steps, let alone take the time to take them at all. They should be able to buy software as advertised and expect it work as advertised. Pure and simple. It's called "buying with confidence", which is why it was one of the first questions I asked you in my first post 2 days ago.
Look, I get it. Development costs money. Nobody is denying that. Nobody here is asking you to give us the latest version for free. We understand the latest version is not simply a facelift as you stated after my original post 2 days ago. If you need to charge for the development of an entirely new version, none of us are going to argue against that. But what we do expect, is if we bought software from you. Software you are STILL selling to this day with OFFICIAL support of Windows 10, with OFFICIAL support of the features that we specifically bought your software for, then you can bet that we expect you to keep that software in "FULLY FUNCTIONAL" order until at least 6 months to a year AFTER you release your latest version of the software. Not have it break 6 months before you release your new version, refuse to fix it on your current version and then use it as a weapon to try to "FORCE" your existing customers to upgrade. That's not acceptable and does nothing but piss your existing customers off and make them less likely to upgrade because we've lost the one thing that we should never lose as customers: BUYING WITH CONFIDENCE!
And telling me that if you bought it after 1809, you "might" get a free upgrade doesn't help me. I bought it when you officially started supporting Windows 10. Before that, I was using DeskScapes 3 on Windows 7. I never bought Windows 8, because it was an awful OS. So I bought DS8 specifically for Windows 10. So I've had the software since before 1809.
You are full of nothing but excuses right now. You are not helping to resolve the problem and you're telling us that you're not going to help us, because you're not going to fix the problem with your software. You are literally doing nothing but giving excuses. You've literally got an "excuse" for everything and that's just making us even more angry. We are not looking for an excuse. We are looking for a solution.
Let me make this clear:
We as your customers are not telling you that it is unacceptable to make new versions of your software. We as your customers are not telling you that it is unacceptable for you to charge for that upgrade. What we are telling you is there is a right way and a wrong way of going about it. What you should've done was fix the existing issue with the current software you are STILL selling. Release your latest version of the software. Then make a statement that you would continue support of your older software for 6 months to a year after the release of your latest software (just like every other developer does). After which, if any new issues surface in later versions of Windows 10 (issues you can REASONABLY say at that point, you couldn't possibly account for), then we would need to "upgrade" to the latest version of your software with an upgrade discount. THAT would've been reasonable. THAT would've been acceptable. THAT would've given us valuable time to prepare for such an eventuality. And THAT would've made me far more willing to upgrade even before official support ended for DS8 without batting an eyelid. You even could've offered us a beta key with a 90 day time limit for a standalone beta of DS10 to at least get DS working for us again for the meantime, with the understanding that we would need to buy the full version with an upgrade discount once you released the final version. That would've gone a long way to dull the edge and would've done a great job of showing us that the latest version was not simply a facelift and shown us the merits of upgrading to the latest version. Plus that would've given you the time you would need after the release of DS10 to fix any initial teething issues that always inevitably occur after the release of "new" software. You should've known ahead of time that telling us to buy a subscription to OD (a very expensive package with or without a discount) was never going to go down well with us. Especially when many of us, only use DS and have no need of the other packages. That's a really expensive proposition to make to people who may have only bought DS because they only needed DS. You should've known that was never going to go down well. My point is, it's not WHAT you as a company is doing, it's HOW you are going about it that is making the difference and causing us to react the way we are reacting.
So please, let's stop with the excuses and start working towards a solution.
bignick, where you really went wrong [particularly as an IT worker] is in knowing 8 was a dog and not realizing it had pups with 10.
Did it not go unnoticed that you were getting an new OS 'FOR NOTHING', and if it costs 'nothing' you know the rest...
The insidious and invasive dissemination of 10 'should' have set off alarm bells in the General User, but no, the price was right...
If only MS came clean and correctly named the 10 "updates" as what they really are - new OS versions as different as Vista [the dog] is to 7 [the non-dog] there would be no outcry about how a program no longer matched the OS.
If you had a XP proggy that finally failed in 7 you'd say "oh well....mea culpa".
It is the fault of MS that a Win 10 program now fails in Win 10 '7th Edition' with little or no way for Joe Average to remain with Win 10 1st Edition - the one he paid nothing for, and now has 7th he never even asked for...
Are you seriously going to miss the point too? Are you really going to argue semantics? Are you seriously going to go down the route of telling me "Oh well, you got Win10 for free, so pay us for our software"? Did you completely miss the point about you STILL selling DS8 as officially supporting Win10 and officially supporting specific features? This doesn't have anything to do with an old program that finally gave up the goose years after support ended and that version no longer being for sale and everything to do with a CURRENT program breaking and you not supporting the software you are CURRENTLY selling. Seriously man, what the hell does anything you said have anything to do with anything I said or work in any way towards resolving the ISSUE AT HAND?
When did you buy DS8?
what I'm taking from this, the practical upshot is, that if I was to upgrade to the new version I can only expect it to be supported for 6 months.
since that's the official MS updates path now...
or pay for a subscription and it'll be supported then.
hmm. got a lot of thinking to do about spending out for an app that just rotates the wallpaper for me.
and I still see there's no acknowledgement about the way we were left hanging for six months, being told "a fix is on the way" and "there'll be developments soon, please be patient" - as in DS8 being fixed.
that's left a sour taste.
while I'm going to carry on reading this thread, I'm moving on with life. but I will be considering strongly not carrying on with stardock products in the future do to this fiasco (not saying I won't get them. no, I don't predict the future, but definitely thinking twice before purchasing)
This is the point both Neil and myself are trying to relay.
Actual blame for programs breaking is the undocumented/unacknowledged [by Microsoft] thoughtless update process which forces the general public to accept whatever failed beta is the next Windows 'update'.
A better managed consumer protection system would see Microsoft made culpable for a person's data loss through FORCED update procedures, particularly as there are already documented cases of such.
It seems that if you are big enough you get away with murder.
Sorry for the delay Neil, I had to look through my order history. Took a few minutes because I'm a long time Stardock customer dating back to 2008. Which is a big part the reason I'm angry about the way this whole situation is being handled by Stardock. I'm happy with upgrading. I don't have a problem with that at all and I never expected nor even wanted to get DS10 for free. But being strong armed into it gets under my skin very quickly. Especially when I've already be left hanging for 6 months after reporting the issue with no word from you guys. Like I said, there's a right way and a wrong way of going about this. I would've bought the upgrade anyway, but I do expect the software I've already purchased to be kept in working condition until you release a new version at the very least. Especially if you're still actively selling that version. Not tell me, it's broke, we're not going to fix, but we're going to keep selling it. Especially after I just got my mom to buy the Deskscapes 2 months ago and convincing her you were a trustworthy company (she only has one monitor, so she wouldn't be affected by the issue).
It looks like I bought the DS8 upgrade in 2014. So it looks like I got it while I was still on Win7. My mistake, it was a long time ago. I've slept since then. Again, I'm not looking for a free copy of DS10. But I am looking for a solution to this issue, so I can get DS working on my PC again. I'm looking for a fix. I don't want to fight with DS every time I turn my computer on before I get to work. That's too much of a hassle. I want to set and forget and focus on my important work.
In all honesty, I'm more angry with the way the situation has been handled than anything else. It was always my intention to buy an upgrade, but I stand by the points I made regarding about the way this should've been handled and about the principle of customers needing to be able to buy with confidence. If we as customers are going to have to sit here paranoid about a random Windows update breaking your software and you not being willing to fix it in order to strong arm us into buying a new version, then it's just not worth the cost for me. I'm not saying you need to support your software into perpetuity. But I don't think it's unreasonable to expect you to support your existing software until at least 6 months to a year after you release the next major new iteration of the software. Not let it break and refuse to support it 6 months prior to a new version even being announced, let alone released. That's unacceptable.
OK, so DS8 lasted and worked from 7 to a few 'Editions' of 10. That's not a bad outing.
Later new OS versions, yes, still idiotically called '10' by Microsoft finally killed DS8 compatibility to the point it had to be rewritten and released as DS10.
This happens all the time to all Programs, but PARTICULARLY is more likely to occur with SHELL ENHANCEMENTS which are not 'simple' programs running on top of an OS but are actually integrated as processes WITHIN an OS.
When an OS version changes one of the things that inevitably does is the OS Shell, and when that happens obviously shell enhancements are affected.
Now, timing is everything, and people may unfortunately strike the failure point sooner than liked and feel they were diddled or mistreated. I know I had 8 months left on a Norton annual sub when THAT was broken by the OS [actually NIS broke the OS instead] and I was forced to lose $50 or whatever and move to another AV co.
Lo and behold....I went to Bitdefender .... only to AGAIN lose out when I moved to Win 7 and they were too slow to catch up with compatibility....[me] forcing me to lose about 6 months...and go to Kaspersky [who already were compatible].
These things happen....and again, it's actually not the fault of Stardock [if only the user had a choice to properly defer OS changes] but a fault forced upon the user by Microsoft.
Stardock always has had a reduced-price 'upgrade' process to enable eligible customers to be at less of a financial hit when MS destroys compatibility, so I'd suggest you contact sales@stardock.com to see if the possibility is there for you and/or your mother...
While this seems to be the common understanding, it's just not accurate. DS8 does work on the current version of Win10 (1809)- it's just that with dual monitors, a settings concession / adjustment needs to be made - having the same resolution for both of them (at least initially - to get past the 'black screen').
That DS8 is 'broken' on 1809 needs to be dispelled.
----------------Sean DrohanStardock Customer Service Manager
For sake of confusion I was doing the 'KISS' thing...
I too virtually never have 2 screens running....so have never had an issue...
I get it and thank you - I just wanted to set the record.
That all said, bignick277's concerns are not lost on us and highlight a problem facing every 3rd party software developer today. The confusing and nebulus nature of Microsoft's release practices for Windows 10 necessitates being more granular and explicite with what is supported, when, and for how long (if knowable). While it will be a challenge to have the laymen understand what this means: 'Windows 10 (up to and through version 1803)', and how to resource that information on their PC, some effort needs to be made going forward.
I think it's easy enough just to leave honest reviews anywhere that takes them. Then future potential customers can make their decision based on support expectations.
In my case I got the package in October 2017 (when Win 10 was already out and live) and it was working fine with an Ultrawide + 2 Widescreen until it wasn't (despite the Features page listing "Support for multiple monitors" and "Supported OSes: Windows 10/8/7") without any clarification(I note that you've now updated the feature page to note 1803 and lower, luckily I printed the old one on 3/14).
It's also worth noting that 1803 is not supported past November 12th of this year. 1809 will likely be a forced upgrade, soon, 1803 is not going to have long term support (1809 will).
I'm uncertain why a fix can't be backported to DS8 - it's been my experience when software bumps its major version number it's not for the sake of fixing bugs but rather delivering major feature changes.
But, I've uninstalled DS8 ages ago, so in my case this is deciding whether I'll ever trust Stardock software again or whether they end up on my vulture list. From a quick look there appears to be better, cheaper alternatives that are actively supported.
tylerszabo ... I can understand you 'not trusting Stardock software again' when issues are encountered with its applying to new OS versions....
...but perhaps your trust [lack of] should be pointed at the true culprit. Please take the time to read just one of numerous sites/threads....
https://www.maketecheasier.com/latest-windows-10-update-problems/
Microsoft breaks things. Think 'bull in a china shop'.
DeskScapes 10 had major changes to how it worked. These changes had a side effect of fixing whatever Microsoft broke with their update. This cannot be back ported as it is integrated with all the other changes DS 10 had.
As you have said, you purchased in October 2017, so over a year before Microsoft finally were able to release their highly buggy 1809 update. Unfortunately we cannot predict what Microsoft might break in any given new OS (and those feature updates are new OSes) and at the time of purchase the website was 100% correct. We have since clarified it, though I doubt most customers have any understanding of what OS version they are using.
As we have said before, we are sorry that some people have had issues, but the blame solely rests with Microsoft for 1) breaking part of an app which worked just fine on Windows 7/8/8.1/10 (all 6 prior versions!) and 2) creating this market confusion with OS naming in the first place.
The issues Microsoft had with getting their 1809 release out rather shows just how poor their QA has become lately. It is of course possible that the next Windows version will fix what they broke in the last one. This has happened before, no doubt to be swapped with other bugs
If you want examples of our support for our apps, DeskScapes 8 is a good example. Came out in 2013 supporting Windows 7 and 8, got free updates supporting 8.1 and 10 complete with a major update to 8.5. Or Start10, came out in 2015 with support for original Win10 and continues to this day to get free updates taking advantage of new OS capabilities (like Acrylic Blur), whilst also resolving any issues encountered. We actually have one in the pipeline for the next Windows version to integrate support for the new light theme.
ok in the end I have not yet understood after all these discussions, make it clear. Then I bought the license for desckapes 8, I would like to understand and know: I have the right to have the free upgrade to desckapes 10 yes or no? or should I repurchase the license for version 10? Please reply without saying anything and in a clear way. Thanks
ok in the end I have not yet understood after all these discussions, make it clear.Then I bought the license for desckapes 8, I would like to understand and know:I have the right to have the free upgrade to desckapes 10 yes or no?or should I repurchase the license for version 10?Please reply without saying anything and in a clear way. Thank
okay so it's right that the development should be paid, but you have to be clearer next time with your trade and development policies, because in all these months, like many other users, we have not been able to use your software, and we have been damaged, because having 2 or 3 monitors, we know what the problem is. I have dozens of licensed software and the new versions are rightly paid for, but if you sell me a licensed software forever, I expect you to release me the free upgrade for any kind of operating system, you can't say these things: "guys the operating system has changed and my program does not work because of microsoft" absurd from a company that develops software. However for there are no problems, but your policy is completely wrong or at least that's what you make users understand, when you explain things. Carlo Cannavale
hi guys
When is the official release of desckapes 10 scheduled?Carlo
When it is ready - meaning, when we feel we have received enough feedback form OD subscribers (something we value greatly) and the product is in a state we feel is ready for the masses.
I ran into this issue as well. Been waiting months for a release. Being in the IT industry - I blame MS for this debacle. However, Stardock could perform the following in the future to clarify the situation and to prevent getting caught off guard by MS, avoiding us to wait months for a fix.
- On the DeskScapes (and obj-dt) store object/download areas, specifically call out which Windows 10 builds are supported
- Don't require people buy a full obj-dt license just to get the DS 10 Beta. Add DS 10 to store now, let people buy and purchase/upgrade to it, but add a disclaimer it's still beta.
- StarDock dev start using preview builds in the Lab for DeskScapes and other obj-dt utils. Set up a few lab computers with multiple monitors. If using the preview builds, StarDock dev should be able to detect issues like this before it hits the general public.
Just my two cents - looking forward to trying the beta.
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