Listen, I get it's used by people as a word that's interchangeable with "crusade." I'm a long time fan who's been around here since Galciv 2. Forgive me but I'm a little surprised that such a hotbutton word can be used to describe the tech of a malevolent, aggressive civilization. Jihad actually means "struggle" not "holy war" as in people have personal "jihads" against bad habits for example, which means even the Torians could have it as a "struggle" for survival pop tech. There's bad press and hysteria over Muslims everywhere these days (Muslim ban etc) and adding such a tech just perpetuates the negative image regardless of the innocent reasons behind the name of the tech. I apologize if I've offended anyone and don't want to come across as over-sensitive. Had this tech been on the Arceans, I wouldn't have minded since they're neutral. But this just leaves a bad taste in my mouth for such a great game.
If you believe that jihad means only "struggle" to most Muslims, then you are sadly ignorant of the Koran and the Hadiths, and the entire history of Islam.
In any case this post is political and, IMHO, should either be locked by a moderator or moved to one of the Stardock forums where political debate is welcomed.
I am infact one myself (Boo!) and I assure you that I've done my research and am well acquainted with scholars in person and of my history. I don't care for any negative stereotypes in my games be they about any people. Believe what you want in private, not in Galciv.This thread is about the naming of a tech which is absolutely an acceptable topic. It's a bit backwards to barge into a thread where someone has taken exception with a tech name, turn around and say that you believe the negative stereotype is accurate, then call for this thread to be locked because of "politics." I would like to keep this thread about Galciv and not about your rational for prejudice.
Jihad is a perfectly acceptable name for the technology just as Crusade is perfectly acceptable name for the expansion.
Yeah and forgive me for laughing - it could easily be argued as self inflicted. After all, anything that is not mohammedist is often considered anti mohammedist by easily excited elements
Luceo Non Uro
Keeping this on the topic of GalCiv 3, what makes you think that the Krynn are a "malevolent, aggressive civilization"? Surely they are just misunderstood.
I knew someone would complain about this, as someone above said, easily excitable elements.
I'd say grow a thicker skin. After all, no-one (that I've seen so far) seems offended by the term "crusade" for the expansion, right?
Snowflake alert
Absolutely. Shocking, the Krynnophobia these days
You have taken some time to make your case and I totally respect that. However, I'm not entirely convinced that it is one that supports changing any in game flavor text. Rather, I would ask you whether or not it is reasonable that the writer involved is representing ideas through various para-historical and political lens in order to realise a sci fi race, and I doubt that the writer intended it as an indictment of Muslims. The Krynn are (if my lore readings are correct) envisioned to be highly theocratic society, that has merged with a criminal element. It seems that writers have made past references to Christian beliefs for the Krynn as well. That too has been brought up in forums.
I also don't doubt that you have an insight on Islam that I don't have (I have a Catholic background), yet it is fairly evident that there are contested ideas around the teachings and usage of theological terms/ideas. This is hardly surprising given that Islam is a widely practised faith, that crosses many, many cultural and political contexts. It is much the same with Christianity as well. Islam is practised by almost 2 billion people in some form or another -- seriously impressive number!
Where I come from, we have an amazing Muslim community that crosses many ethnic lines, and is actively engaged with the broader community. I most certainly don't buy into the hysteria even as a person who strongly believes in secular government and public services. I know as an observer and student of international relations, issues of violence in places like Afghanistan and Iraq are a result of a much more complicated set of factors than 'Muslims = bad'. I think most reasonably minded people here will understand this as well.
The point I'm getting at is, I believe that a writer/artist should generally have licence to explore an idea or some fantasy realisation using the language on hand. We can certainly talk about whether it is done well or poorly -- absolutely a valid discussion. In this case, I think the link to Islam honestly seems pretty tenuous and I hadn't even thought of the connection until this post was brought up. The Kryn seemed to have been inspired by other things as well. It's a tricky topic, I understand.
Anyhow, I wanted to give you a decent reply out of respect. I also hope that you stick around and continue to enjoy the game, even if we disagree I'm disappointed with the ad hominem attacks here. I think this community is better than that.
Edited for spelling and clarity*
I appreciate the respectful reply. I believe the problem then lay with representation for us being so sparse in media that when it finally does happen, we tend to overanalyze it. Nevertheless, I do hope for more nuanced representations in the future, rather than the "hur dur evil m0szlem" fiction that feeds the right wing mob above you. I'll keep your views in mind to make it more palatable for me.
By the way, I use spies and never got the option to blow enemy buildings or kill an enemy citizens from promotions? Do you have to have a malevolent alignment? Cause I usually go pragmatic and the only thing I have as a promotion is to steal a tech through infiltration option.
Late comment, but I think this is worth mentioning.
Not angry, not upset, not even offended; just some additional perspective that I've found very useful in navigating this landscape.
Brushing against real-life concepts; someone can claim to be "Christian" but if they lie and cheat and steal, then their claim is empty words. Much like how I could claim to be a mechanic, but if all I do is smash in windshields and slash tires, then am I really a mechanic?
In a drunk-driving accident, do we blame the car? No, we blame the person who made bad choices and decided to start driving.
Blaming religion for something bad is the equivalent of blaming the car, instead of blaming the person who made the choice. Yes, that's a bit simplistic, but it's a far better starting point than assuming that the bad choices of a few must mean that the entire idea is evil.
(The irony I've seen on both "sides" which do this is funny, albeit in a dark way.)
Now that we've cleared that up, regarding the game itself I see that the term "jihad" fits the Krynn. While the definition of the word (IRL) is moderately flexible, the USAGE of the word (IRL) is rather rigid, often militant in nature or outright violent.
Of course that's not a 100% use, I have no doubt that there are those who apply "jihad" for peaceful endeavors, such as "I'm going to watch my temper" or "I'm not going to smoke anymore" and such.
The Krynn are not nice (mechanically, they're Malevolent) and Espionage by nature is not something done out of kindness or diplomacy, but it's just as possible to create a custom race that is Spiritual with the Devout trait that follows Benevolent ideologies.
Or perhaps the Altarians, that works too.
I'll have to side with the "grow some skin" aspect of this topic, with a generous helping of understanding of what religion is and what it is not. But in all uprightness, I'm care more about my starbases showing up in the ship designer!
"Blaming religion for something bad is the equivalent of blaming the car, instead of blaming the person who made the choice. Yes, that's a bit simplistic, but it's a far better starting point than assuming that the bad choices of a few must mean that the entire idea is evil."
Fair... but its also fair to point out that there is regulation of cars, because cars can be quite dangerous, as there is (some) regulation of firearms, standards (some) for being allowed to care for children, and regulations, laws, and accords to control nuclear, biological, and chemical weapons. It is not unreasonable to question whether religion as an idea unto itself has a dangerous quality to it... in practice and in the hands of people (any people, good or bad).
I for one consider religion to be something human beings handle rather poorly. Much as we are with firearms. So whilst I don't "blame" religion, I also don't think any combination of religion should get a "pass" and that regulating them is a possible solution worth investigating. For example in a secular society, any religion that openly calls upon its participants to revolt against secularism is a threat, societies are duty-bound to address threats... through a variety of means ranging from very peaceful to very forceful. Its the same idea/issue as whether a democracy tolerates political parties who are anti-democratic...
And befoooorrrreeee anyone thinks I'm talking about Islam right now... Check that. Because as I see it and live it in the United States, its the various christian varieties that are the most anti-secular in a practical manner.
OHHHH and I personally modded GC3 to remove the whole "good vs evil"... so to be clear I'm a Survivalist Ideologue and as such any and all constraints on the ability of the state to progress technologically and expand the population's chances to survive is anathema... freedom, religion, etc. are mere baubles to be doled out to my citizens to keep them happy until our "Morale-Control-Chips" get installed in their heads.
Its unfortunate that we need to feel heat and agitation merely using words like "crusade" "jihad" or the like, as ultimately this game is meant to help us achieve some healthy escapism. So I won't say "get thicker skin", I will say... try to focus on the game's goal and their intent... to help you forget the realities for a little while.
Jihad must be one of the most famous Islamic concepts. It takes up a large portion of the Islamic Trilogy (Koran, Hadith, & Sira). Material for jihad is 24% of the Medinan Koran and 9% of the total of the entire Koran. Jihad takes up 21% of the Bukhari material and the Sira devotes 67% of its text to jihad. Statistics gives us a measure of the claim that the real jihad is inner struggle, the so-called “greater jihad”, whereas the jihad of the sword is the “lesser jihad”.
The term “greater jihad” is not found in any of the canonical texts. However, we do find in the Hadith that some hadiths refer to some religious acts that are equal to jihad of the sword. These quasi-greater jihad hadiths total 2% of the Bukhari hadiths that relate to jihad. Of course, the other 98% of the hadiths devoted to jihad claim that jihad of the sword is the supreme act. The statistical answer to the true nature of jihad is that the “greater jihad” of inner struggle is 2% and the “lesser jihad” of the sword is 98%.
In other words, jihad is overwhelmingly violent and a little inner struggle. Statistics also give us a measure of the importance of the jihad of pen and mouth. The Sira devotes 23% of its text to war poetry that is propaganda. This poetry, which is not the only example of how Mohammed used propaganda for his jihad, furnishes us with an insight into its importance. The Sira devotes roughly a quarter of its jihad text to the jihad of the pen and mouth, and three quarters of the text to jihad of the sword. The Sira makes no mention of the “greater jihad”, the inner struggle. https://www.politicalislam.com/statistical-islam-pdf/
The Paul atreides leader unlocks it.
hahahaha Priceless.
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