How do you defend against Substrate Artillery frigates when you already have guns and smarties already up? I just got my ass handed to me on a ranked game when all he did was park his frigates outside of my guns and smarties and destroyed everything. It should be a simple 1:1 ratio, you get to shoot me and I should be able to shoot you. Parking yourself outside of range as a substrate is crooked IMHO.
First substrate artillery frigates, noithing is called that? first smarties suck... the art post is great but the smartie suck.... It looks like you are unexperienced and don't get it... first you should play some with ai first... mabye you should simply play the camapagin it's good to use as a turtorial...
since you are phc you can make factories and make a brutes and archer at a 2:1 rati and also get some medices, so you can loop in 6 brutes 3 archers and 1 medic.... use cruiser aswell.... zeus works well aginst tier 1... artemis would I have used with athenas.... since it's fragile
Sub Artillery is nothing compared to the PHC artillery. PHC artillery has an absurd range. Sub armies are killed before they ever get in range.
To Lux, you are most likely a very stupid ignorant man who probably voted for Trump.
The Substrates do have a mobile artillery piece that was hitting me WAY farther then anything my guns or swarmies could hit, and that is a huge imbalance. Doesn't matter what side you are on, the pieces should be always 1:1, PHC has more health, Sub has less but has shields. Okay that's fine, but if I can't hit them with my guns and they literally walk over me that's an issue.
Tonight got my ass handed to me again, wave after wave of enemies and I get the corner covered and he has 3/4 of everything else. I don't have time to play a game that is so imbalanced. The original game I could understand and I actually was doing good on ranked matches. Here on Escalation I've won maybe 2 games in 10. The changes are bad. I won't play anymore I guess, no point in starting a match and lose it in less then 5 mins.
It's most likely due to the fact your radar was down , as destructor has 1400 range and can fire on radar targets, now to get that much range.without being hit by your own.units your radar units must have been non existant and he must have had full range of radar coverage e.g. aided by the searcher or avatar or lastly range quanta upgrades.
That's my guess otherwise ss get hit heavy on approach by phc defense.
Further to the above ss can't include the avatar in an army so that's macro to have him.near , unless the ss builds a listening post nearby he will.be.reliant on the searcher which is terribly weak , build some appollos and soon the as won't have any radar at all.
I play ss a lot and ss radar units are few and the range of.artillery is quite low compared to phc so you should be able to counter easy enough.
So let me get this straight, you are complaining that an anti building (only) artillery unit is actually doing its job and destroys buildings while not being hit (while being supported by radar/scout units)? You are complaining about this while playing PHC which has the most powerfull artillery in game atm? Okaaay....
Stationary defences are not suppose to be an answer to every act of agression from enemy. You actually got countered. You turtled, you got punished. PHC artillery can do the same thing with sub defences AND a lot more. Thats what artillery is supposed to do. Build some units, like air bombers or some other units which can flank them or take the fight to them. Destructors CANT attack units, so it will be an unfair fight with your advantage. So you can actually come out with a strategy to get past this weak attack pattern or you can actually continue to cry about "imbalanced artillery of substrate".
Destructor secondary weapon although weaker can hit ground targets from memory , it's at lesser range and half the dps.
I'm a substrate player we have a lot of stuff frigates we have only direct fire... crusier we have destroyer who is anti bulding, but not from you description of the problem it seems not likly this is the unit, the artillery only work against buldings... drone hive, makes drones... avenger, direct fire... mauler direct fire.... care taker healer, the marchonist also direct fire.... mobile jammer yeah definetly artillery morron... the dreads are not artillery at all....
You should probly listen to a substrate player who is also in the ballance group asisting ggthemachine in ballance... you can't even name the unit... also what we generall people who sin't morrons think of artillery as inderect fire.... if you are smart enough to understand that... also I did not vote for trump, I'm European.....
Also PHC is way stronger the sub atm... the new ballance that has been susgested will ballance it mostly out but i can give you stats to prrove it aswelll for excample the anti bulding units... 66dps 1200m range AOE..... plus artillery as main weapon... that's PHC artemis..... Substrate has destroyer main weapon is ant bulding with a secondary bad weapon that are bad.... 44 dps NO AOE adn 1400 range.... that will be ballanced out but is one of many examples why SUB IS WORSE...
If you realy talk about the destructor you are probly dumber than Trump himself, thinking statics should beet mobile is so dumb... it's worse than the PHC counterpart by a lot... a
PLS START AT SCHOOL YOU COULD NEED A LOT OF EDUCATION, also go back to call of duty... a game made for dumb people
Also you loose since you are trash and others are better.... it's called lack of skills, beeing bad.... Silver.... Noob... you need to adapt.. the escaltion is way better and almost every1 agree
hahaha well that escalated quickly.. usually im the one with the quick temper!
so obviously ur talking about the SS siege unit, the destructor, as u know by now it can engage both buildings (very well) and units (ok vs light stuff) in almost all games u need a siege unit that is effective at destroying buildings, to stop people (maybe like u) from just turtling and making an unbreachable defense which would lead to a stalemate. think of destructors as catapults in medieval days. PHC (as mentioned) gets a superior version of the destructor called an artemis, that fires missiles at units or buildings. it beats the destructor in both departments, for the same price. so if anything SS players should moan that PHC is OP..
as others have mentioned, PHC can build their own static artillery, which has tremendous range (3500) compared to the destructor (1500) u can build arty, but they are slow and expensive to create, but theoretically u could make ur unbreachable defense that u so crave using artillery, drone bays, radar and those anti dread cannons. but then the opponent will either flank u or bomb u. either way, defence is not best thing in the game, the game favours offensive behaviour, and map control, so the sooner u learn to get out of ur base and contest the map, u sooner u will start winning battles. currently the PHC is actually considered by many (most?) players the stronger of the 2 factions.
unfortunately in the ladder u will face a lot of players higher skill than u, but usually they should be of relatively equal skill level.. so once u apply some basic ideas u should see the destructor is far from OP..
from the sounds of it u are being beaten by the enemy rushing for map control, so either way u would lose to their superior economy. that isnt an easy problem to solve, it will take a bit of learning to beat a good player who rushes well. either way, SS is certainly not as OP as u think. it is most likely from a large difference in skill level that u are having these problems.
Well Phc artilery is kind of useless now!
if ur playing the opt-in then yes arty is useless, but if ur playing 2.10 then no the arty is still good, just not as stupidly powerful as it used to be.
try build a batch of 6 arty posts and then come here and honestly say how useless they are..
in 2.10, 6 arties cannot counter one tier 3 turret backed by a generator.
in terms of costs sub destroys phc in any kind of static defense.
That's a good thing... if you realy think you can turtle you way up to a win mabye adobt to another strategy and playstyle that does not include abusing op stuff, we all knew how insanly good the art post was before... defences are not ment to beet armies it ment to support you army beeting the oponent...
also static defnces... they have not been overhauled... the ballance susgestion that you probly have seen from gg is just one of a couple mayor overhauls that will come.. this time unit vs unit... next buldings I think
Re the 6 Artemis vs defense i don't think there were any unit balance changes in 2.10v ? Is that with the opt in ?
Lol - in terms of cost, I would hope 6 Artemis could not counter a Tier3 turret with a shield regenerator. And I mean just their cost alone. Nevermind the tech time and extra cost of the most expensive orbital structure it is gated behind.
nein and me were talking about the artillery post yall.. well i assume HE was since artemis are far from useless and he should know that
@nein, im surprised u didnt say artillery can not shoot down air units.. to try justify ur point. just because the artillery cannot beat a T3 and a regenerator does not mean artillery is useless... have u looked at the air rampager recently? now that is useless. artillery can still wreck armies.
and i would tend to say that arty can still wreck what u mentioned. the arty AI is dumb so u might not have the arty shooting the correct turret simultaneously since we dont have direct control, but the weapons itself surely has the potential to destroy the turret if all 6 arty fired at it when they were supposed to. but if u have the 6 arty firing on an army u will do a heck load of damage.. so certainly not useless... just not as stupidly OP as it used to be
I was talking about actual arties, the buildable ones. If you dont have at least 4 they are not effective and they will be nerfed. But a single t3 sub tower can basically kill everything phc can throw at him in the first 25 minutes of the game. that is insanely retarded if you compare it with sentinel/drone bay.
o really.... so a regen bay can regen the lost health on the turret as well? oh it cant.. meaning in one way the regen bay is significantly weaker than the repair bay. and please check how expensive, how much time it takes to upgrade (twice) the T3 turret and the produciton time/cost on the tech wall on the regen bay before u start saying things are "insanely OP"
the time/money it took to get to T3 turret + regen bay, u can get 6 arty builidings, and yes they might not have the same close range power as the T3, but they have a HUGE area of influence..
also the PHC player can drop down the repair/drone bay combo, much faster than the SS can get T3 + regen... meaning technically PHC has a much better base creep + longer range fire power compared to SS. therefore meaning in most cases PHC actually has the better defense.. since u are only breaking through defences using siege cruisers anyway (artemis, hera etc) which the PHC player is the only one with any means to fire back at with arty.. or how else can we kill buildings? athenas with their reduced damage to buildings? mass unit spam? then of course almost everything should fail..
so please cry more PHC fan boy i say buff the arty so it can shoot air, and give it self regen.. then PHC and SS will be balanced hey?
lol 1+
technically you don't understand anything out of substrate gameplay and most of the sub players in ladder too. You really don't get it but if you play long enough you will get it.
any combat in open ground without orbitals being used should end in sub's favor, if it doesn't is basically substrate fault regardless of phc player skill.
if you haven't reached that point that means you haven't played enough and you can't understand basic substrate gameplay in early/mid/late.
at the moment phc is back in time with one year, by being forced to turtle like mad while giving up map to substrate.
You are dated... Medic makes it a living hell from every sub player... if no orbitals used it's an easy win for substrate... queue up the right units and you have a chace.....I was gold played a lot last season of ashes... atm I don't have that much time for ashes ranked, but still both me and Quesocitio have both played enough to know what we talk about...... Also did you know the medic is consider OP, and our caregiver can't be built dou to terrible value.... before new ballance is out it will still be better to be PHC... Substrate units has a higher cost and is less efficent atm... just look at mauler vs athena... or destructor vs artemis (it's 50% more dmg for anti building and AOE for artemis, 200 more range for destructor, seems ballanced?)
But you can't realy argue with fanboys....
I can argue that you have no idea what you are talking about. There is a counter to medics but I guess you have to play more to learn the game.
hahaha so it boils down to attacking us since u can not contest what i said? "FORCING" PHC to turtle? the only reason PHC CAN turtle is since SS arty (destructor) is inferior to "his highness the artemis". why dont u just kill the "overpowered" SS defenses with ur hordes of "under powered" artemis?
PHC is back in time with one year? please which SS unit is better than the PHC equivalent? even if SS is better than PHC in the short term, how can u say the exponential growth of the PHC economy is weaker than SS in mid-long term?
of course we need to play more since u can not name the so called counter to medics..
Today I learned that Sub mobile artillery can actually shoot at units! I didn't know they had a second weapon. I knew they could kill units accidentally when shooting buildings, but not deliberately!
The PHC mobile artillery has a anti-unit grenade launcher that should do the trick OP against any pesky enemy's, otherwise your static artillery post will bombard enemy's quite nicely as of my last game in the opt-in patch! Otherwise before the opt-in patch they are REALLY good at killing stuff.
Put 4 behind a repair drone station and you should be able to force the enemy to retreat or assault your defences! Build sentinel anti-cruiser turrets, as when repaired by the drones are basically unkillable in the early game and with dispatch enemies with ease!
A pro-active approach is also a good strat against enemy artillery, so a few sniper cruisers guarded by some brutes can easily root out some would be artillery!
Good luck!
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