So on bigger maps at high difficulties (top 2-3) is malevolent the only true viable starting path? To get colony ships out quick enough seems like you need the extra production and shipyard +100% bonus from malevolent. Without it I always seem to feel left behind. Thoughts on this?
BTW, this isn't to say that you can't go into other paths later, but if you want a consistently good start if feels like it's a must.
I use Benevolent for early colonization boosts, then research boosts, then the big influence-flips-everybody perk. I really milk that last one, taking opponent starbases and minor planets while being everybody's favorite peacenik. Or even while being the aggressively Benevolent dictator that I am and forcing new populations to love me at the point a laser blaster. Peace is always an option, but only an option, after all.
I can't imagine playing any other way on my insane maps. I looked at the Malevolent path and I just can't make it fit my play style. Just goes to show that different things work for different people.
Before they nerfed the hell out of the Death Furnace, there was definitely no comparison between the idiologies, but it doesn't give a raw manufacturing level bonus anymore.
You get the super quick constructor-->colony ship conversion from Pragmatic, and double starbase production. Resource harvesting and trade get pretty major boosts, as well as both penalties to others for attacking you, and diplomatic boosts to yourself. The 50 turn war embargo can be a major boost as well, letting you build up far longer before spending down into military production.
Benevolent gets you rapid tech boosts, extra planets, huge morale, and lots and lots of influence.
You can conquer the galaxy with influence as fast as you can take it with ships, and you can get out ahead of either by having a lot of resource utilizing components as Pragmatic.
I think at the highest difficulties the 50 turn war embargo is largely essential. I dont know how you take on a godlike near neighbour without it - their early bonuses are extreme. Those 50 turns are crucial to get yourself to a point where you can at least resist the inevitable invasion
Yay! A proponent for each ideology! A good sign that Stardock has as least made the three paths usable and somewhat balanced. Individual preferences will affect things for a while, but I expect there will be general preference for Malevolent. It fits more obviously with aggressive strategies, which are particularly satisfying to gamers with a taste for pixel on pixel violence.
There may be exploits we find in the ideology paths going forward, and that Stardock has to work out, but so far it seems to depend on individual preference more than any demonstrable objectively obvious advantage to any one of the three paths. If you find one, let us know! In the meantime, I expect the comparison discussions will regularly recycle, sometimes with passionate debate.
I tend to grab Pragmatic for 3 constructors then bene for free colony ship then go down the production line in Malevolent. Once I get 3 or 4 deep in there I go back and work on influence or ideology buildings as I can. On Insane maps even at 'uncommon' you can usually get many many points now that the colonization ~ideology bug has been fixed. I would like to see an expansion of the ideology trees with an 'unlocking' of an ideological tech arm for each as was done in GCII.
Bring back Arnorian Armors and Drengin super weapons which leave pragmatic at a dilemma as the tech back then was 'so so' but others may have different opinions on it.
I play Godlike, mostly huge maps vs all 12 AI, sometimes just large vs 7 random AI.
I know that from everything I read, I play this game quite differently than most. My custom race is geared to my vicious style of play.
Honestly, I'd not dream of taking anything except Malevolent. Once in a while with many planets around I might start with 3 free constructors but I have rarely done that lately.
Malevolent all the way for me!
The funny thing about me choosing Malevolent is that I'm not a war guy, I'm more a builder. I like to start by getting Intimidation buildings then jump into benevolent for the missionary centers. The missionary building gives +2 bonus to approval so combined they give me free points in both benevolent and malevolent and I rarely build any other approval buildings (or influence for that matter). I find that by turn 150-175 I'm almost done with 2 of the 4 paths in both benevolent and malevolent (tech tree in benevolent and manufacturing in malevolent first). This really sets me up well, assuming I can survive a DoW on Godlike or the difficulty below (blanking on name).
I've tried other strategies, including the builders and the colony ship, but the problem with both is they don't give ideology buildings so they end up being a one time bonus that wears off quickly instead of a lasting effect that continues to get stronger as the game goes on. I'd really love to hear someone tell me I'm off on this and explain why because I'm sure there are better strategies out there and I'd like to learn, but I'm having trouble grasping anything else as viable.
Thanks for the responses so far, been a good discussion!
To qualify, I tend to go benevolent early, but pick up the pragmatic "no war" ideology at roughly turn 50. In my experience DoW's from godlike and incredible tend to come around turn 55-60 and picking up this single ideology buys 50 turns to transition to military techs and build up a fleet.
Even if a one or two enemies DoW early, it can stop the chain DoW's that tend to happen when you are weak early and end up in a war with you vs 6+ godlike neighbours.
Usually at this point I transition more towards Dan's strat of ideology buildings - normally the colony race has ended by this point and free ideology points dry up fast
Horemvores Galactic Star Trek mod allows you to have an 'ideology' project right off the bat. You can just set planets to (the) ideology you want. While this invalidates the need for buildings it makes getting Ideologies easier after the colony rush.
With my specific custom faction, I rely on the Benevolent tree, with some elements of Malevolent if I can get them.
It's funny -- my race is set up to be isolationist, with debuffs to trade/tourism and buffs to ship toughness, logistics, production, etc. So they can go pound for pound against warlike races. The way I utilise the tree is to go first with the benevolent influence building (can't remember what it's called) for my first choice, so that I can expand borders and farm ideology points. Then I work through the colonization tree to expand my economic fundamentals (they tend to snowball with my production bonuses) for the extra planets, tiles and pops; I then focus on the science tree, and by late game I'm moving up the influence tree. It's by that point in the game that I find the influence tree to be extremely powerful, and the rest of the Benevolent ideology buffs snowball very nicely.
I want play more with the malevolent tree, so I'll probably create another custom race specifically for this purpose. I personally like the idea of subverting these trees, where my current faction I play with being quite capable of warfare despite being 'benevolent'.
Frankly, I tend to split Ideologies, since I find different combinations of things very useful.
Typically, I'll go either B or M to start, but pick up P for both the 50-turn anti-war buffer (which, yes, it great for going full-bore developer, then swapping over to wartime protection 25 turns before your buffer ends), and the trade bonus techs for the money it gets me. Plus, it makes it easier to keep your local civs happy with you, since you can easily flop back and forth from being a M or a P, or a P or a B.
The end results is that I rarely have a tier 5 ideology even in long games, but I've usually got at least 3 different paths across 2 ideologies up to tier, and another 3 or so to tier 3. Yes, I could get a tier 5 instead, but I find that having a nice mix of bonuses is better than having a lot of just one.
That, and I tend to play "trader"/"growth" races, which focus on money and people rather than war or influence.
Best bet is to go Pragmatic/Benovolent. Get the +per turn buildings. Build loads.
Do not put anything into Malovolent yet, just get as many planets as you can and get points for your Prag/Benov.
When you can, buy the Praxis merc. Group him with a survey ship, and survey the hell out of all those ship graveyard anomolies (don't fight them early game, most AI will ignore them too until late game).
In about 100 turns you will have 2 or 3 trees maxed on Malovolent. (You get 5 points per battle). Then once your Prag/Benovolent are up where you want them, change those buildings to the Malovolent one.
I had one game I had a ton maxed out.
Early game, just go democracy and cower at your neighbors and give them crap. Bribe other races to attack them to keep them busy. Eventually you will get to the tipping point, where you are equal or greater then them, and you can just wreak havok upon them.
You can win Godlike easily with this strategy. I hardly ever even get into a war until hundreds and hundreds of turns in. Just check the diplomacy screen constantly, declare friendships and give them gifts and such.
Oh, and if you ever wonder what to do with all those ships you get from graveyards? Sell/Give/Trade them to a neighbor of yoru enemy and have him declare war. 40 ships usually gets you a nice chunk of change, a few starbases, a war decleration and the bonus of knowing those ships are going straight for their territory. (Works great if you actually move them INTO the enemy territory before you gift them, lol).
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