For anyone interested obviously
1. Sentinel Turret + High ground + bunch of Medics or Repair Bay = gg Subs. Holds a key position all game long and collect your PHC win. "Dude, frigates!". LOL, hi, I'm the god of Olympus, zap zap zap. You want to hear a sarcastic version? Why build a Nemesis when you can build a stationary Nemesis that has 10 times the health with roughly the same cost? At first, I was totally fine with Sentinel Turret. But since I found out it has a cost of cruiser, disguised under the tooltip "expensive", I got really pissed.
2. Fury is the "new old Punisher". If the game allows you to unbind Hades hotkey, you should, since you can just produce Punisher as PHC with less cost and roughly half the build time of Hades lololol. And btw if you're PHC and doesn't open Fury or you're Subs, say goodbye to your 2 precious engineers at around 2-3 minutes mark.
3. Air openers too retardedly favored to other openers (both factions).Things that flies that are accessible early (aka, tier1 resemblance) should do tier1 damage or less (overall damage to the enemy as well as the weapon damage) since (you don't say?!) they can fly.Flight IS a strength, and should be considered into the overall stats of the unit.There's no way an aircraft that can dive and kill engineers 2-3 minutes into the game and get out alive should be tier1-accessible (accessible early and producible early).
4. There's still very little incentive to get Dreadnought. They can't bulldoze cruisers since they come so late into the game that cruisers number already got out of control.Even the Retributor, so called anti-cruisers, can't reliably deal with them, unless heavily supported by cruisers itself (which is pointless, so much for "anti-frigate and anti-cruiser dreadnought").
5. Fury + Probing Force Sentry is now the new Dominator Avatar cheese, which, by the way, comes earlier.It has to be pre-emptively countered or you're dead, or at a huge disadvantage that you might as well should quit the game.
6. Anti air turret in this game was probably designed by a sadist. If it has such low accuracy, it should pack a punch. If it sucks as it does now, it should have a tier2 version to strive for.If it's the only static defense option, it should have high accuracy moderate damage, or retarded accuracy (like right now) but pack a punch.The falcon anti air right now is a disgrace to its model. Its model is a Flak Cannon, which is, in most games, the icon of Air Destruction (moderage-high accuracy, smart aim - usually fire when the aircraft is turning, deadly damage).
7. Some maps in ranked are really really retarded. What did you smoke when you put Fast and Furious into ranked play?What did you smoke when you put the nodes so tight in Bis that the Turinium generator creeps destroy my extractors?People complain about Cygnus. After patch it's even more broken for bottom position then it already is. So is Knife Fight. So is left position of Deneb.Suuuuuuuuuuure, maps will change next season. Oh my sweet summer child. Do you know what that means? That means these stupid issues will be swept under the carpet and we have to endure them until next season. And guess what, next season will have its own issues again. And hey, wake up call, we have, in fact, endured these issues for more than half the season. Can some kind soul with map editors prowess edit these maps and send the devs?
8. Yes, yes, there will be new units, the tips of balance will change, but then everytime it changes, we have to deal with very broken shits.Epic battle, massive scale RTS, game doesn't last past 10 minutes with no dreadnoughts or nukes in sight. Come on.
Sure, my tone of writing is always sarcastic and harsh. But at least I'm being honest.
Am I expecting too much out of this game at this stage? Maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaybe. Maybe I should delete this forum account and shut up and just play.
"1. Sentinel Turret + High ground + bunch of Medics or Repair Bay = gg Subs. Holds a key position all game long and collect your PHC win. "Dude, frigates!". LOL, hi, I'm the god of Olympus, zap zap zap. You want to hear a sarcastic version? Why build a Nemesis when you can build a stationary Nemesis that has 10 times the health with roughly the same cost? At first, I was totally fine with Sentinel Turret. But since I found out it has a cost of cruiser, disguised under the tooltip "expensive", I got really pissed."
Sentinels are the only weapon that keeps PHC in game vs SUB right now. If you play sub smart you should have 8 assemblies at 8 min mark producing full cruisers and still having superior quanta income. PHC will die eventually if you dont allow too much ground.
"2. Fury is the "new old Punisher". If the game allows you to unbind Hades hotkey, you should, since you can just produce Punisher as PHC with less cost and roughly half the build time of Hades lololol. And btw if you're PHC and doesn't open Fury or you're Subs, say goodbye to your 2 precious engineers at around 2-3 minutes mark."
Fury is not enough to counter the sub superior economy, games can still be won by sub even if they lose 6 engineers in the start, that is how much lower metal requirement they have.
Another point with Furies is that I see alot of PHC players whine about it, even it is a mirror. I have played 3 matches vs K'Lay yesterday and even though it's basically a mirror he was pissed about it; but he had access to the same units as me. There is the issue that if you dont open a game with rads in phc vs phc you autolose vs fury, but that is about it in balancing mirror game.
I have entered his stream after the game for curiosity and he thought Furyes are retarded but did nothing to counter them or to understand the mechanics behind them. Point is you can defend your engineers if you know how their close range weapon works. I have learned it the hard way, because I have been murdered by this combo by other phc players time and time again. I think the game two vs Klay if it is on twitch will show a solid defense vs the furies, he barely killed two engineers all game while having access to the same units.
Furies can be dealt with, but punishers were in another league. And hades is a very poor bomber, it;s animation doesnt allowed sniping as the way punisher can. Also Fury is the only unit phc has to deal with avatar as it is now.
Oh don't interpret it as a Sub whine. It's just a general whine. Top leaderboard is still filled with Subs (despite lots of them being inactive).
I didn't watch your games vs Ki'Lay before I posted this. Since you mentioned it I took a look and there's a part at 25:00 (https://www.twitch.tv/ki_lay/v/69008506) where he had 2 Furies, you had 1 (screen was very blur / slight lag to me, correct me if I'm wrong), and he can't protect his 2 engineers right underneath due to how wonky air to air combat is in the game. But that short moment shows how ridiculous air to ground weapon of Fury is (and how triggered Ki'Lay was lol).
Anyway as said, this post is a sarcastic whine. While there is some truth in it, taking my sarcastic posts dead serious is always a mistake lololol.
Peace.
-If you are not prepaired with sub against air, you now have to suffer as well. I remember if PHC is not able to cap radioactives, the PHC player is actually dead.
-Running into a defense is not a good idea, maybe sub has to use their anti building unit as well? (I dont see a sub player build that unit)
-As a sub you can defend Fury +probing force sentry with your drone hive unit and t1 AA and you only need radioactive for that. Compare it to avatar drop it is very similar. PHC needs nemesis or fury or Sentry against it.
Personally:
I dont like the neutral AA on the maps: sometimes the fight will decided by that units. I liked it to help or disturb capping with bombers which is not more possible.
I would like to see a third air unit which is good against fighters but bad against bombers and are not able to fight against ground.
Since Sentinels can't move, makes sense they'd have more health than Nemesis. The early air dominance as an opening strategy is tedious though. Fighters should not be so powerful against ground targets.
I'd be very wary about gameaplay balance that is about the 1 on 1 small map game versus the much more commonly played medium sized maps played single player (let alone large).
Air units are very fragile to anti-air and require a significant investment. If the opponent takes radioactives first, be prepared for air.
well loveisall is completely right. after this patch i get completely wrecked by just 3 fighters from phc. they dont go down to blossom THAT easily and they kill ANY engineer you have. basically resetting your whole game. EVERY GAME.
how hard is balancing a game with 10 units
counter for air is your own air supported by your aseemblies. how hard can it be? omg
3 fighters won't take out a Blossom.
He doesn't say that they do. He says that a Blossom will not take them out before they kill the engineers. Is 440 dps on the fury intended vs. the 158 on the dominator?
I played against some guys and they can defend the fury harassment with the consequence of a killed engineer and a killed fury.
I must Agree. Especialy ...Air rush killing the game. At least know.dont saying that should deleted ...but serisouly...fighter cant kill enginers so EASILY! at one HIT!! ok when u have 2-3 quads ok i take it....early air should to slow down enemy on eco ..so harrasing mines etc forcing enemy buiol AA so its slow him down etc....but NOT KILL 3 enginer in one row, or imidietly when it see and focus on enginer.For killing ground units are BOMBERSAbout bomber...why fighters take sooo long to take them down? and engi kill one hit figter is specialized to take down air thats itSome Suggestion:1.figter cant attack ENGI or take dmg only about 1/4 HP? for all fighter style air2.Make AIR rush harder. build time, cost, or need some tech.3.FIX AIR DEFENSE. (phc need t1 unit from factory), Towers and units T1 should KILL ONE quads pretty FAST!!! T2 have More effect on GROUPs lees agais one Squad!!!even in alter games massing bombers are pretty sux(subs need mobile aa T2(area))4.or make air more heailty but lower Effecienty on dmg! even low costFOR DasUnding...it can be defend bcs all know that u are doing it and still is pretty hard and ANNOYING!About sentry....Agree Too! But i get all PHC cry thats need early defend agaist MAULERS but later with nemesis and artemis mauler are baad to get them especialy when covered by sentry LOL
The issue isn't that it is uncounterable. It's that this opening is so strong and potentially game ending that it is the only possible opening. So every game is about early air harrassment and AA defense and who will lose more engineers/constructors. It creates a lot of tedious micro right at the start of the game in a game that is supposed to be about macro and large scale battles. I'm hoping we can find a balance where there are multiple viable strategies and none are so strong as to possibly end the game in the first 5 minutes.
The Furie's 440dps weapon is air to air. Its ground gun is relatively wimpy. I will double check of course.
When I play, I always have some Sky cleansers out pretty early.
You're going to have this sort of thing in any RTS. Without it, the game would be predictable and boring.
In StarCraft, there are players who can wreck another player with a single Reaper. The Protoss can wipe you out with a single Oracle. People complain in Ashes about Avatars. I can only presume they've never dealt with a cannon rush or a Nidlus Worm.
If you see a player taking radioactives first, you know they're probably doing something with tech.
If you are PHC you have to go Fury as early as possible. If they go Fury early and you don't then say goodbye to your engineers and you have essentially lost the game.
You have to commit to going metal or radioactives first before you know what the opposition have gone for so you cannot react so fast.
I don't mind fighters being able to take out extractors quite easily but I think they take out engineers a bit too easily. One run out of the blue and your engineer is dead.
Ok I just looked. We didn't intend for the Fury Cannon to be able to target ground. It must have gotten updated to that during the recent AI targeting improvement pass.
for you Frogboy that u interested about it. Keep doing! Good work
I think Furies have been able to target ground a long time? But I guess it must have got a buff at some point recently. I was under the impression it was there to increase options for early game harass, like taking out unguarded resource extractors. It is just a bit too much against engineers. If it took more passes to kill an engineer, or two units of Furies to be effective then I think it could stay in the game as a viable option which wasn't so frustrating or obligatory.
I haven't had the chance to play much after the most recent patch. Had a funny case vs PHC where I was like "Fury... kk will get some sky cleansers, keep the constructors together to heal each other" and he just plowed my initial two constructors... than a few more Anyways I won but still it was very stressful to lose 4 constructors.More seriously on the topic:Frogboy,About Starcraft analogies - both oracle & reaper cases require micro skills. You are not making a micro but macro heavy game, as far as I can tell, so please stay away from giving 1 unit 1 squad the potential to end game by simply appearing on the battlefield. Certainly, having air vs unprepared opponent should yield advantage but it should not be too drastic. Unfortunately Starcraft 2 got to the point where reaper taking 1 drone early game or oracle claiming more than 3-4 drones was big game changer.
BTW, there's a new opt-in called CPU Benchmark that has a bunch of performance improvements and a new CPU benchmark.
A huge problem in my oppinion is that sometimes the aircraft disappear and appear on a total different location that makes the handling very strange vor phc and sub.
I tried it twice but it crashed to desktop instantly. I filled in the little report box.
Yes, this. I guess it is something inherent in the game engine and not just how my card/driver are rendering. They glitch out and vanish, then reappear a fraction of a second later in a slightly different location.
Not a buff, just their AA weaponry being able to target ground in addition to the their normal ground weaponry. (the AA damage itself may have been buffed not long ago as well, don't recall, but it's the target application that's the problem)
Ah, I get ya, thanks for clearing that up.
sub is ok, they can lose 3 engineers no problem early game. they still kill phc in open ground so I dont get why sub players are having problems. They have everything they need from assemblies and they cry injustice if they lose their precious engineers while they build the apocalypse from the assembly. avatar is a very big problem if fury cannot take him out so some thinking is required. avatar did the same what fury does now, only better and cheaper and no sub players complained.Please for the love of this game just watch danail play or try to remember when you play against him and you will figure it out very fast that fury is really a non issue, it's just players having problems fighting it because of low micro skills, they want all on autopilot.Fury requires the manual targeting for the autocannon to trigger so it is micro intensive and good lock trying to snipe engineers when there are sky cleansers on the field.
Sub players want all the advantages of sub without bothering to build AA and again their metal cost is so low they can recover fast. they can even siege phc with drone mrv for the fun of it, that dirt cheap their defense really is and yet they complain about the sentry.
another bothering point is that dominators with standard ground weapon can pretty much kill engineers with ease, they just dont one shot them that is only the difference. try looking at a fury that tries to kill an engineers without the autocannon...it is really painful to look at that.
There are many great features available to you once you register, including:
Sign in or Create Account
