So i was sitting in the middle of what i perceived to be a cold war, the Yor had fleets in orbit of my colonies and we were pissed of at each other. He had a military advantage over me so i got into an alliance with the two other remaining Major powers. The description implied they would ride in as Calvary if we got into a war. lo and behold the cold war goes hot... and no help from my beloved allies. i didn't even have the option to bribe them into recreating the Great War on a Galactic scale. Alliances should work like described, allies should leap to your aid and axis's (axis'?) of evil should conquer the universe.
TLDR alliances should act as mutual defense pacts (Ex. NATO):
-if one ally gets invaded all others allies should join in
-any member may negotiate for another to join them in a war of conquest
(If reasons exist please do explain why alliances seem to be inherently useless right now (if just when they involve AI players).)
Thank you.
Allies aren't going to help you if you declare war. It's a mutual-defense alliance - just like your NATO exmple.
However, I don't ever seem to be able to bribe allies into going to war. The option isn't there in the diplo screen. I've never figured out why that is.
Cutted out for DLC release.
From what I can tell the Declare War option is available in the diplomatic interactions with races that are Malevolent. I've just looked at a save game and the option is available for the Drengin, Yor and Kyrnn despite having only a Neutral relationship with them. In addition the cost to declare war seems pretty much fixed at around 3,000 credits. This leads to a system that can be easily exploited i.e, without applying house rules. In a recent game the Yor were snowballing in strength and I simply asked them to Declare War on everybody else, which softened them up (and other races!) before I declared war.
What the AI should do is calculate a rough opportunity cost of going to war and use that in diplomatic interactions. Going to war with another powerful race would cost them a lot more a measly 3,000 credits in lost ships etc. If this was in place I would agree the Declare War option should be made available to Alliance partners.
Yes. You are totally correct. Allies are very disappointing in this game so far. I would love to see more options in alliances and it all doesn't need to be based on moral preferences only. I hate it when I am play pragmatic and another faction is good and even though I have been really good to them, I am still taking a penalty that could undermine our relationship?
Well I digress. I like what you tossed out there. More alliance options. So far we go
Open borders ----> Non-aggression-----> Treaties -------------> Alliance
But even in Alliance, there is no guarantee that they will actually help you nor are you bound to help them. Even the total war series prompts you that your ally calls for aid and to refuse damages your rep in the world.
I would change the diplomatic relationships to the following:
Establish Formal Relationship, this would unlock a few basic options ---> Open Borders, Trade rights, Collaborative Exploration, Non-Aggressive Pact
Once your relationship with a faction improves to good relations and you unlock the basic treaties you can then enter into
Multinational Relationships, this opens up a few additional options---> Mutual Defensive Pact, Preferred Trade Partner, Collaborative Scientific Research
Additional Research and good standing allows:
Transnational Diplomacy which unlocks ----> Military Alliance, Trade Pacts
Now a few things to note. 1) open borders should be just a privilege not a diplomatic move. In some games crossing into another's territory is an act of war. Why is there not even an alert that your going into someone else space? 2) An increasing trade status. You can trade with anyone even if they hate you. The only limit is if your at war. Negotiation of trade rights is normally a big deal. I added in advanced versions opening the door to maybe some additional economic options. But I won't expand here since this isn't the discussion for it. 3) Alliances would open a panel that could include more than 2 nations. Now being in an Alliance, as compared to a Mutual Defense pact is that MDP is just an agreement if someone attack either you or them you help out. You can still negotiate a separate peace. But Alliances agree to see it through to the end. If you all sue for peace it applies to all nations evolved. It also requires all parties to join in the fight should one attack another nation not involved in the alliance.
The reason crossing into another's territory causes no alert or penalty is that, in GC3 as in 2, there IS no such thing as territory other than planets. What you see on the map is in fact your 'influence' and apparently even highly-territorial creatures like Humans don't mind if someone parks a battlefleet a few hexes away.
Now, as for me, I can't get 'territory' out of my head. That zone of influence looks like territory and sometimes acts like territory and so I think it should be territory... but according to Stardock, it is not.
I like the fact that I can explore where I want without a treaty. I've been asking for combined research for awhile.
Nope, never had an "ally" respond to a declaration of war on me ever.
It basically seems to do nothing other than act as a way to win by allying everyone. From a strategic viewpoint, no purpose at all.
yep, had four alliances and a race declared war on me and none of them went to war with me.
Though I was able to trade one to declare war on him fairly cheaply. His relation with the new enemy was neutral.
As far as I can tell, alliance just locks your relations at a high level.
Other then getting an alliance with first major race for steam badge and locking good relations; alliances are a waste of time.
Devs I hope you can work much on alliances in the future
Has SD at any point acknowledged how useless alliances are right now? or mentioned that they will be redone? It's killing diplomacy based games for me. If allies won't come to your defense when you're attacked, they're pretty useless.
Have you tried 2.0 opt-in? I think in the patch notes this issue was meant to be addressed. I cannot confirm, though.
Yes, they are still useless placeholders even in 2.0 (!).
Stardock is deliberately ignoring the issue, it seems...
I agree that in its current form alliances are useless. They are more or less another non-aggression pact. My suggestions to fix it would be the following:
When the computer are considering war against a civilization they also consider the military strength of the allied. This way it will be possible for military weak civilizations to pursue influence and culture rather than military. But the computer also consider the military strength of its own allies because there are a large possibility they will also join the war.
It would function something like this. When you open up the diplomacy for declaring war a new frame come up with all known civilisations and how they will stand in this war proclamation. On your side, the opponents side or neutral (not getting involved). Allied civilizations have a high probability to stand by the side of their allies, but never guaranteed. The stance of the neutral civilizations will be based on the attacker and defenders power, but of course it will be possible to use diplomatic activities to persuade them to either join your side or stay neutral (if they join the enemy). This means declaring war will take a little longer but then again declaring war should never be routine. My inspiration for this thinking comes from Crusader King 2.Also in another thread I have stated that I think that the reasons for war should be changed to avoid long wars where nothing happens and create a more dynamic galaxy.
They definitely should do this. Also, if you are declared war upon, allies should have to break the alliance (rare) or join the fight. But if YOU declare war, it should be different, less of a chance of joining maybe.
There are many great features available to you once you register, including:
Sign in or Create Account
