Galactic Civilizations III v1.5 Change Log (Release 12/9)
For this update, we've been working on improving the diplomacy system. We've also reintroduced the Planetary Wheel through the new Coercion system and removed the large empire penalty. We've also introduced a new, in-game metaverse experience. Finally, we've made some improvements to the multiplayer lobby experience.
Major Features
Gameplay
AI
Multiplayer
Graphics / Audio
Mods
Ship Designer
UI
Bugs
I'm not too far into a game on the 1.5 opt in. One thing I would put down to consider so far is the diplomatic penalty incured when demanding that an AI move its ships out of your territory. I feel that it should not incur a penalty when there is no open border treaty active, but that an AI can still refuse to budge if it thinks the player is only capable of flogging it with warm lettuce.
If the actual concern is that it's unreasonable to turn the economy around completely from moment to moment (going from 100% manufacturing to 100% research on the spot) then both the wheel and the focus system are bandaids on the real problem: that you CAN turn the economy around on the spot.
If changing to your production distribution actually takes time to go through - you can move the wheel/change the focus/etc-front-end all you like, but the actual output of each planet only shifts by a few % or by a few base production points each turn (so 100% one thing to 100% something else would take a loooong time to complete), the problem would be solved and it would be reasonably 'realistic' into the bargain.
Can't help but feel that this "diplomacy" update has needlessly suffered because of Stardock's knee-jerk reaction to some negativity regarding 1.4.
I saw AI Scout Ship investigated "graveyard of ships", and does not decrease the 100 hp. As AI Cheat!
UI fixes are nice but the game still needs some major improvements in that regard. No fixes for any of the problems I've been encountering, either.
So far, I am having fun with 1.5. I love the diplomacy flavor. I like how the Ai is chaining star bases to get to me. All are good. The Wheel and its implementation currently do feel 'clunky'. I know some folks want it and some don't. I was all for it than learned to play without it.
My question, is the ai going to be balanced with folks using it or not? I currently have 53 planets and use the planetary wheel on one planet, my prime research planet. I set the wheel to 100% full on research and floated four star bases to maintain full 100% happiness. Viola 1285 research per turn. I have 6 other research planets but those are doing 280 to 400 per turn.
Its a lot of work to get the wheeled planet up to maximum. I had to sacrifice a tile for the building and then float four star bases to maximize production, research and happiness.
No crashes, not hiccups. Game plays well. I am seeing ai ships with 2 different types of weapons which is what it SHOULD do! I am also seeing diversity across factions on weapon preferences thanks!
Game is insane with 30 factions and abundant minors. I am 350 turns thereabout into the game.
When I read the patch notes, I was thinking about this.
As far as the wheel goes, it doesn't feel like the coercive system adds enough penalty. Considering the massive multipliers of a planet with full research or production infrastructure...it still seems like specializing the planet is the way to go, even if I take a penalty. Sure I take a 25% production hit, but with a 250% multiplier to research....do I really care? Would I ever make a 50/50 world (with the 50/50 infrastructure to match)....because of that penalty?
Haven't done many of these, but are the pirates random spawn? If so the scout has all 3 defenses, it's possible it just took no damage..
Wait, the "Diplomacy patch" will have just two additions to the diplomacy options? Eh, just a patch, can't ask for too much.
Yea, I was wondering about that as well. I assume that some of it just got back-burnered for the time being... No complaints, just funny..
Also, the "Precursor Worlds DLC" was mentioned earlier ... was there an announcement somewhere that I missed? The only mention of it that I can find is at
http://explorminate.net/2015/12/07/galactic-civilizations-3-patch-1-5-dlc-this-week/
I feel like I missed a memo..?
DLC will come out when 1.5 is Live, not just Opt-in.
I think the Diplomacy improvements are good as far as they go but the number of improvements is a bit Meh. It seems sensible to me to make a huge jump in Diplomacy with the Espionage expansion as they are to me quite closely linked. Using spies to undermine Diplomatic relationships between races etc...
When I read the patch notes, I was thinking about this.As far as the wheel goes, it doesn't feel like the coercive system adds enough penalty. Considering the massive multipliers of a planet with full research or production infrastructure...it still seems like specializing the planet is the way to go, even if I take a penalty. Sure I take a 25% production hit, but with a 250% multiplier to research....do I really care? Would I ever make a 50/50 world (with the 50/50 infrastructure to match)....because of that penalty?
Yep, it looks like the same 'abuses' of the wheel are alive and well. And as usual, if there is a 'best', then it behooves players to use it. In 1.4, I had worlds that weren't overly specialized but I can see going back to all specialized (on any decent world anyways) very quickly.
Definitely feels like a step backwards. Add to that the fact that the AI still isn't fixed (ie, still puts it ships in the player's territory while being overrun) and my desire to crank the game up with 1.5 is pretty much gone. Hopefully 1.51 or whatever comes next at least fixes the AI.
AI scout ship investigated the anomalous "ship graveyard"Intelligence2 beam 4 rocket, cannon 20 protection, protection 0, 8 defense.2 Pirate ship for "ship graveyard"8 ray-equipment.I check my scout ship, the battle, and then my damage about 40 damage.
Looks like there are four new diplomatpic options, not two. I'm in the middle of a game right now (Drengin, not Krynn) so I hope to try these out.
Bug "flight abroad". after the vote, why not show the percentage of A% and B% B% D% .....?
Seriously, this is why I hated all those whiners about bringing back the wheel. BS cheese shit that lets you have insane results. It seems like a lack of options for strategy. Just ultra specialize each planet and wheel away. Fucking boring.
I'll be getting the dlc because I love this game but I need to emphasize how much I want more Ai tweaks to diplomacy. The parking your entire army in my sector for no reason is pissing me off. And since I want to repeat my hate of the cheese wheel, fuck the wheel
Disappointed, perhaps even angry at the update reverting 1.4 and actually making things worse. Major step backwards.
Alstein,
Sorry to hear that you are disappointed. Can you be more specific as to what is worse now?
I don't like the wheel- it forces unfun micromanagement. Rest of the changes are positive, but that's a huge negative for me.
After playing a bit more 1.5, the positives are there as well. Enough that it tempts me to get into modding.
I suspect if you reverted things, you'd find folks saying the same thing- that a lack of wheel would make them stop playing. So I understand you can't win either way.
Maybe I can mod this out of the game entirely - never really modded before, I'd just need to come up with a good replacement for Coercive. I do enjoy the rest of the game.
The question for me is whether or not it is well balanced, as I don't think it should make the focus system redundant as well as breaking game balance with absurd output. I know coercion is the concept that is meant to balance it out, but does it work in practice?
Also, another query that comes to mind is whether or not the AI, particularly those that benefit from the flexibility of the wheel, is capable of utilizing it?
No, see here lies the problem with that...the game can't be 'balanced' for both using the wheel and not using it. If the costs are adjusted for using the wheel (ie to account for the ridiculous on-the-fly specialization) then people who aren't using the wheel will struggle (in MP or against the AI which is presumably going to be balanced for one way or the other). But if the costs are adjusted for NOT using the wheel, then people using the wheel will find it too easy (and the inevitable complaints about 'the AI sucks! I can beat it with one hand behind my back!"). As I said in 1.4, they eventually have to pick a system AND STICK TO IT. If it means the wheel, then get rid of the other crap and put the wheel back from the beginning but adjusts the costs to reflect the output allowed by that type of control. If they want to get rid of the wheel, then do it and be done with it! This hybrid system where you can just the wheel but only once you research 'x' tech and then go back and build 'y' building on every decent world is just a mess IMO. And the focuses are still there for some reason so it's just a jumble of mechanics. Add in the global wheel (no idea what that is supposed to represent other than a legacy of GC2) and there are far too many controls and interfaces shifting throughout the game. This is what happens when you don't stick to your guns and you try and appease everyone....you get a mess of a system.As I've said before, I'm not a fan of the wheel. But I'd rather have that original system and the costs BALANCED for it (ie, no pumping out large/advanced ships every 1-2 turns...) rather than this where I use one mechanic early on, then switch that to default as the game goes on, then use the focus UI, then research and build a structure that enables me to go back and re-tweak my planets at will (but only within certain constraints of diminishing returns). Anyways, I hope they decide to 're-tweak' this mess. But honestly there don't appear to be too many people consistently posting on the forum anymore so perhaps they will take silence as consent that this is a viable and enjoyable system to build on...
What he said. It is impossible to balance the game for both economies and the current implementation is game breaking IMHO.
I hate the wheel but could life with it if things get balanced around it. Make up your mind Stardock, please.
It is strange. With GalCiv2 i always had the feeling Stardock has some razor sharp design plan, which i really liked. With GalCiv3 i feel they are all over the place and unsure how to proceed.
This (above post) is a big problem right now- it feels like Stardock is trying to have it both ways, on something where you have to make a hard decision either way. The current implementation is actually worse than what it was before 1.4, as there are now extra steps to cheese the game.
I feel like GC2 was fairly locked down by the time I started playing it, and I also had no expectations (this was slightly pre-twilight expansion), expectations really make a huge difference on my impression of things. So I feel like it's a difficult comparison to make.
My expectations of GC3 have been that it'll be a bit rough around the edges @ release, it will get cleaned up and streamlined to the point of being 90% figured out and locked down by the time of the first expansion (~1 year) and will continue along this line of general development until by the 3rd expansion everyone will think that it's the greatest game of all time and is the gold standard of 4x (just like GC2 ended up being).
I'd say, thus far GC3 is meeting 95%+ of this expectation. I also expected it to be great fun - which I'm finding that it is!. When everything's locked down I might even give MP a go...
cheers
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