Galactic Civilizations III v1.5 Change Log (Release 12/9)
For this update, we've been working on improving the diplomacy system. We've also reintroduced the Planetary Wheel through the new Coercion system and removed the large empire penalty. We've also introduced a new, in-game metaverse experience. Finally, we've made some improvements to the multiplayer lobby experience.
Major Features
Gameplay
AI
Multiplayer
Graphics / Audio
Mods
Ship Designer
UI
Bugs
Thanks
WOW, what a great gift for me for this weekend. You guys are AWESOME-SAUCE!!!!
Improved Diplomacy. Added new diplomatic interactions including "Leave my territory" and "Demand Tribute."
Anything include to make minors more than just something to invade.UP votes,vassels,ect.
ditto: ty guys.
I'm sorry if I missed it, but is the problem where the Ai parks a ton of ships in my zone addressed in any other way than the get off my lawn request? In the last patch, even if I was on good terms, they'd just keep a bunch of ships parked in my space.
We haven't addressed that, yet you can now tell them to get out there
You guys are fantastic! This patch looks great!!
Thanks Pshaw. What is is that causes the ai to park fleets on my starbases in lieu of using them in wars it has elsewhere? Can we fix this locally?
Thanks for the reply. Will this be addressed this patch? I was under the impression that this was the result of a diplomacy problem. Great patch btw. Its only this weird habit of the Ai to turn my sector into a parking lot that annoys me.
I misunderstood the direction of the 'coercion system' as it was described before.
I like it.
Antimatter still shows up with resources set to "none"
Not sure if this is on the radar, but the UI is still broken for the planetary approval bonus mouseover for the malevolance/aggression/eager bonus, it still describes the bonus as "missing info (12)"
cheers, thanks for the update.
That's unfortunate. I think that is one of the things that is crippling the AIs. I have seen it fighting other AIs and getting rolled up because it's ships are in my space. :/ And I've had my AI 'allies' do the same stupid thing when fighting against a common enemy...all of my 'allies' fleets are sitting in MY territory while our mutual enemy is running roughshod over their planets. :/
Hopefully this is one for 1.5.1 hotfix or something but I think it's probably one of the larger bugs/unintended features/whatever still impacting the game.
There isn't a games company that makes me want to pull my hair out... except Stardock. At this point I wish you'd smash this game out the park or turn it into a dumpster fire you don't seem to be able to make up which direction your going towards it's one step forward one back.
I've read the patch notes fired up the game and taken a look at some of the new features thought I'd give my first thoughts/impressions, I'll know more once I've played.
For a patch that was supposed to be focused on diplomacy adding two minor occasionally useful features and no mention of anything else might be surprising to some... is there more to come in the finished patch Stardock?
The Coercion and Bureau additions to me are the stand out changes in the patch, unless I've missed something they're the only things of real consequence. The Bureau building adds the individual planet wheel back into the game for 150 manufacturing cost, 1.5 maintenance and is available only three techs into the game. On the face of things it seems Stardock have completely caved into the people who wanted the wheel back.
Coercion adds a 25% production penalty (not including happiness malus) when production is 100%. If you set production to 75/25 you can use focuses to get production back to 100 and only take a 12.5% coercion hit... did you intend this Stardock? The consequence is you've just added a ton more micromanagement to the game, because that's what many players will do and even more micromanagement with the return of the wheel.
###My Proposals###
The games biggest problem for me is lack of player consideration and diplomacy, these flaws really suck the enjoyment out of the game for me. (By player consideration I mean Stardock has made scant improvements so far to unnecessary micromanagement issues poor UI/tool tips/and relaying necessary information that a player wants to know imo)
I actually think the bureau system could work but not as it stands. Currently people would build them on every planet it won't take long to do so, it will be as if the wheel was never taken away.
If each bureau built cost an increasing amount in maintenance e.g. 1st one 0 second 25 third 50 etc. so you could only afford so many per empire e.g. on your key planets that would be a great compromise.
I've mentioned this in forum posts before, players need to be able to change focuses without entering each individual planet even more so with the addition of coercion as I noted earlier.
The Diplomacy resource/tech/ship/planet barter system is an utter mess, micromanagement hell. It's too easy to exploit the AI and it's mind numbingly boring if you do so. I'd scrap ship trades. Roll tech and planet trades into the peace deal system poss tech too. Scrap tech trades add it to a espionage system. Resource trades could be done via freighters. These changes would vastly reduce micromanagement caused via diplomacy. Also preventing players from so easily abusing the AI, the state of diplomacy is making the game vastly easier to beat though incredibly tedious to do so.
This is part of a quote from the release of Patch 1.4.
"Sure, stalking YouTube players may seem wrong but then again, people openly posting their strategies are fair game right?"
If this is not just marketing BS I may be one of the players that was being referred too. (There are very few people who cover GC3 on YouTube and I believe I may be the only player who's made Godlike Let's Plays in English post release) If there's anything I can do by sharing strategies or otherwise just ask, hell I'd like you too. I feel my feedback on these forums have been a complete waste of time so far.
I have to agree, I want the wheel gone forever, and this feels like a step back.
I'd even take the large empire penalty if it meant no bureau of labor and Krynn trait being changed back to where it was.
I won't say "this patch looks terrible", but the game moved in the steps I wanted with 1.4, and now it's moving back away from it, so for me this is terrible, and much like the above poster, I've been borderline on this game for a while- I don't regret the time/money I've spent, but I don't feel the urge to keep playing this like I have your best games. 1.4 gave me some of those urges because it eliminated some of the micro, and now you put that micro back in, just hid it behind a small wall.
I understand this is a divisive issue- I suspect there are folks who feel the lack of a wheel is enough to make them not want to play the game as well. However, I really don't like that change, and I agree with just about everything posted right above me.
When does the Precursor Worlds DLC drop?
When the patch goes live.
And the global wheel adds another layer. In the end, I felt like I could crank production early so that again, facilities were pumped out in 2 turns and then I can mash everything over to tech and get the first group of 'requireds' etc.
I said it at 1.4 - they need to pick a system and stick with it or the game can never move forward properly. Now we have a hybrid mess of the wheel and no wheel AND the focus button AND the global wheel. Adjusting it all 'just right' produces similar results to before, just with more hassle involved.
I agree that seeing the wheel return is...annoying.
Also, the lack of diplomacy options are disappointing. I want a close borders option. If I have another AI settle in my territory, I'm going to scream. LET ME CLOSE MY BORDERS.
I agree with the above posters; I hate the back and forth. Whiners gonna whine and that sucks, but when it's better for the game, let them whine.
I agree with the above posters; I hate the back and forth. Whiners gonna whine and that sucks, but when it's better for the game, let them whine. I thought the command line option to re-enable the wheel for those who couldn't live without it was a good solution. But now it's back and IMO it's sort of made a mess of the economy. At LEAST get rid of the global wheel so there is one less variable to have to screw around with. But regardless, it seems like as expected there is just going to be a 'sweet spot' for the wheel(s) where you get the max output with minimal loss. So if that's the case, then the wheel is once again, extraneous...it's just taking up the time to futz around with it.
I thought the command line option to re-enable the wheel for those who couldn't live without it was a good solution. But now it's back and IMO it's sort of made a mess of the economy. At LEAST get rid of the global wheel so there is one less variable to have to screw around with.
But regardless, it seems like as expected there is just going to be a 'sweet spot' for the wheel(s) where you get the max output with minimal loss. So if that's the case, then the wheel is once again, extraneous...it's just taking up the time to futz around with it.
If, as Frogboy says, the planetary wheel was always going to be taken out the back and shot and therefore the AI was never designed to use it to it's best advantage, why not make it a Multiplayer Only function? That way, the people who are designed to use the planetary wheel to it's best advantage (us human folk) can use it if they so desire when going up against other human folk and Singleplayer folk (like me) can if avoid a situation where the human chooses to use it because it's there and then gets pissed of with the AI in GalCiv3 bacause the Stupid AI doesn't use the planetary wheel that's right there in front of them?
That, to me, seems the best solution. People get pissed off when they take advantage of a system within the game that the AI doesn't and eventually we find out that the AI doesn't because:
1. Stardock haven't gotten 'round to coding the AI to use that system properly.
2. As in the planetary wheel case, Stardock quite deliberately avoided coding the AI to use that system properly because that system ITHO sucked and was going to be killed off at some point.
For me, Stardock need to take one of those roads with the wheel. Either have it in and go through coding the AI, or dump it. Or leave it for Multiplayer where yes you'll still have AI races who don't use it properly if your game includes Major AI, but the human players will kill them off toot sweet and then can go against each other and their superior skills in that area.
Actually I believe he specifically called out that that was NOT the reason to remove the wheel. IIRC, he said something to the effect that the AI could easily be coded to micro-manage all of it's sliders every turn and run circles around a human player. The original reason for it's removal was something along the lines of it's not 'realistic' (even for a sci-fi setting) to be able to just mash the whole econ one direction and then mash it in a completely different direction a turn later. In addition, the specialization it allowed made for some ridiculous planets that far exceeded the nominal outputs they were expecting in the game.
Personally I think at this point it would have been easier and just as effective to have just increased the cost of everything (production and research) by like 33% and been done with it. Then they could have just left the stupid wheel alone rather than this hybrid mish-mash of micromanagement.
GalCiv3 needs to decide one way or the other on this- it seems no one is happy with what the current change.
I think a slim majority want the wheel out entirely, but I'm biased.
My argument for taking it out is the AI work involved, and those AI man-hours could be spent improving the other facets of the game which are more fun. Does anyone find the wheel one of the most fun things about GalCiv3? It really seems like a "negative fun" mechanic.
I hate the wheel. Even with the new 'Coercion' mechanic I am not using the wheel at all in the current game. The default settings and the focus buttons are working just fine.
Ok you are not letting quoting the post for some reason. I almost am to fed up to post; because you are making waste a lot of time. Thanks for bringing back the wheel. Thanks for doing away with the large empire penalty; even though I just figured out that if you use the adjancency bonuses from the missionary and pragmatic buildings mixed in with the entertainment centers and capitals you have unlimited morale. I think it makes more sense lore wise to give the wheel to the Yor than the Krynn, but I understand to do that you would have to figure out a new trait for the Krynn. We need a new super instigator. Does the raised population growth rate means that 10 now is not the optimum number, and was this lowered from 20 which was two. If you change the growth for everyone but the Yor then wouldn't it make sense to change the values on manufacturing the assembly and what not for the Yor. Ai more alive talking more that's good except can when the Ai is talking smack against you not could ships received from anomalies since that is something I can't control since for awhile I use them for exploring.
Reply 12
I thought the planetary wheel was a good idea, so it's all right if it is like it was never taken away. But since I wont specialize most planets only some it would make no sense to me to build it on every planet why would I waste a wheel on some planets if I don't need to specialize, so at least with me this would not happen. I play the game can't figure out the micromanagement problem. I spend more time moving around my ships than anything. It would be nice to have an only check out solar systems auto explore option. That would go a long way in cutting micromanagement. Having Global and local governor options would also be nice. Global would mean I wouldn't have to change my governor options for each planet just the ones I need to. I don't use governors because I like to control what I build, but I support this as an option for those who don't like micromanagement. Also can we have both global and local options for planetary governance why do I need to change every planet when I want a lot of planets at least at any one given time to do the same thing. I only need local when I want to change a planet. Provinces would go a long way to solve this issue. There I can issue a group of planets to do the same thing. Both shipyards and planetary governance would be affected by this. Cutting down micromanagement in a good way. Any time you lose productively or game playability to cut down micromanagement then you are implementing bad eliminating micromanagement recent civilization is a good example. I actually want to keep tech trading isn't that a pre game option anyways. I don't ship trade, but I wouldn't have a problem leaving it for those who plays this way. Planet trading wouldn't be a problem if the game would have some sense for what is a reasonable trade. No planet trading would be a pregame option I would use. The only time the Ai shoul d be trading away planets is if it is more beneficial to do so. Same goes for its ships unless they are building ships to sell. Same goes for Starbases. Now here is a better option it doesn't eliminate micromanagement which at this point is not a problem. Instead it would prevent you from seeing everything it had. There should be a way to take off the list everything you are not planning to sell. Unless I am extorting you there is no reason I would see everything you have. You could have a category where you put items you are not planning to sell that only you can see. This is even better than two where I choose what techs to see and what not to sell. Ai wise the gamers would have to work at programming this effectively. As far as user interface I can't find a timeline where it tells you your past movements. What did what like two had. Moving around the screen even though the cursor works it really doesn't because most of the edges of the screen is taken by options. It would be nice to have an option to hide everything on screen while you move the mouse so when you are done you could turn everything back on. Since we are not using this for any reason it would be a nice function for the right mouse button not where you hold it down, but where you click it, and all the lists and menus disappear until you right click again that way I could move around the map unhindered, and when I moved to where I was going then I would right click my mouse, and everything comes back. Resource trade via freighters fine if I can decide if I want to put them on, and you should always have an option not to make the trade. Always more optional meaningful dialog. If the YouTube video quote was meant for stardock then instead of showing the Ai problems on godlike where Ai has cheating economic bonuses. You should show Stardock the Ai problems on normal, so we can have a better, not gimped Ai.
Reply 13, 16, and 20
I you don't like the planetary wheel then only use the global wheel problem solved you just eliminated micromanagement just handle expanses through global wheel you are the only reason you use the planetary wheel. You don't have to use it. Use the global wheel. It can only bother you if you unessisary use it. Finances can be handled globally. This is only needed when you need to specialize, your welcome I solved your micromanagement problem only use the global wheel.
Reply 17
Closed borders have never made a single game I played. Two good examples endless space would be better without having to research open border treaties to explore more. Requiring an open borders treaty or a declaration of war wasn't what made civilization an awesome game if that was the only feature done differently from three I would have went back to three. Honestly the Ai doesn't expand fast enough. I don't know what you do, but you have to be able to colonize better. I don't mind get out of my territory but for sake stardock please don't implement closed borders, but a pregame option I would always have off wouldn't hurt.
Reply 18
Unless you like more micromanagement getting rid of the global wheel wouldn't help it actually cuts down on micromagement that way you could set your whole empire, and only change the planets that need changing. If anything can you also make the governors global and local for the same reason to cut on micromanagement.
Reply 19
The only reason the Ai couldn't handle the wheel was because they were planning to remove it. Now that it's back in please code the Ai to use it, so this doesn't need to be a multiplayer only option.
Reply 21
if you don't have to play the planetary wheel; because, of the global wheel why do you play it. With all the response about them removing the wheel are you sure the majority doesn't care. There seems to be a lot of response about removing the wheel. Still looking for the micromanagement in galactic civilizations 3 I'll let you know when I find it Ok. Also why do you use the wheel when you could use the global wheel instead if you don't like it.
Reply 22
My point exactly if you don't like it don't use it, so everyone who likes it can still use it.
No, see here lies the problem with that...the game can't be 'balanced' for both using the wheel and not using it. If the costs are adjusted for using the wheel (ie to account for the ridiculous on-the-fly specialization) then people who aren't using the wheel will struggle (in MP or against the AI which is presumably going to be balanced for one way or the other). But if the costs are adjusted for NOT using the wheel, then people using the wheel will find it too easy (and the inevitable complaints about 'the AI sucks! I can beat it with one hand behind my back!").
As I said in 1.4, they eventually have to pick a system AND STICK TO IT. If it means the wheel, then get rid of the other crap and put the wheel back from the beginning but adjusts the costs to reflect the output allowed by that type of control. If they want to get rid of the wheel, then do it and be done with it!
This hybrid system where you can just the wheel but only once you research 'x' tech and then go back and build 'y' building on every decent world is just a mess IMO. And the focuses are still there for some reason so it's just a jumble of mechanics. Add in the global wheel (no idea what that is supposed to represent other than a legacy of GC2) and there are far too many controls and interfaces shifting throughout the game.
This is what happens when you don't stick to your guns and you try and appease everyone....you get a mess of a system.
As I've said before, I'm not a fan of the wheel. But I'd rather have that original system and the costs BALANCED for it (ie, no pumping out large/advanced ships every 1-2 turns...) rather than this where I use one mechanic early on, then switch that to default as the game goes on, then use the focus UI, then research and build a structure that enables me to go back and re-tweak my planets at will (but only within certain constraints of diminishing returns).
Anyways, I hope they decide to 're-tweak' this mess. But honestly there don't appear to be too many people consistently posting on the forum anymore so perhaps they will take silence as consent that this is a viable and enjoyable system to build on...
Thanks for taking out the LEP as to the other 1.5 features I'll have to play a game with them to find out how they operate?
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