I also apologise - I didn't mean to characterize you as a generally rude person.

Back to the discussion:

I guess I expected many of the original races to return, but there is much else to Star Control, as pointed out by others now. The fun thing about new aliens is that the writers can come up with more new stuff, and don't have to base everything on what was done so long ago. Hurrah for creative freedom!

I am convinced that Stardock had a good idea of how to make this Star Control without the aliens from Star Control II.

Well definitely don't call it Star Control 4.

Lore-wise, you'd have to create a new universe (eww) or put it in a separate galaxy:

- The Mass Effect approach: prior to the events of SC1, an expedition uncovers tech from an ancient civilization (Precursors without using that name) that teleported them to Andromeda.  The adventure is to find your way home safely.

- The Stargate: Atlantis approach: Same thing, but the adventure is to stop a growing threat before it threatens the Milky Way.

Progression is fun!
 

Thank you! This isn't the first time here that I've said the backlash from certain individuals about "why this isn't Star Control" is bound to be a long and grueling affair that we'll all have to endure in the months ahead. I do my best to ignore it but it will probably prove to be a challenge. I applaud the patience of Brad and Andrew on these forums!

I concur that the franchise only stands to benefit from a new direction, rather than steering the vision of the creators as was attempted in SC3. Not only did it lack a sense of adventure and excitement, but it also felt stale and recycled because the races we were already familiar with didn't exactly break much new ground. The few attempts at doing so mostly just ended up irritating fans ... who among us hasn't tried to forget about Precursor cows? I suppose in a perfect world, it might be possible to commandeer someone else's ideas and expand on them successfully, but that rarely happens in the world of storytelling, so it's a wise choice for a multitude of reasons to branch the story off in a new direction ... or directions.

The feeling of discovery, uncertainty and not knowing what to expect is what makes an adventure into the unknown compelling, and I'm very appreciative that Stardock is smart enough to realize that they don't need to gild the lily that is SC2, but rather stand on the shoulders of the giants that created it by opening it up both in terms of the available universe to explore, and in terms of community involvement.

I can't say whether or not this is an unrealistic notion, but an idea which recently occurred to me that might be interesting is a sort of separate gameplay mode (like a non-canon adventure mode that isn't tied to the central story, let's call it Roguelike Mode for lack of a better term) where we are able to have a sort of abridged experience every time. I realize Star Control is not 4X and I'm not advocating for it be one, however one neat element of 4X games is that the map layouts are different every time you play. I think it would be cool to venture out into a great unknown whenever you want and would add an incredible element of replay value if we had the opportunity to play a mode where the story, aliens, and starmap changed a little each time you played.

And one more thing that I was reminded of by corgatag's avatar, and also something I have mentioned elsewhere on the forums ... in the event you haven't seen the alien animations from Stardrive 2, I think it's fair to say that is an amazing example of the level of art direction that I'd love to see in Star Control!

Please point me in the direction of purchasing a Founders pack.  I'm ready!

Spathis are an old favourite. Having the Spathis around would be tantamount to getting home, putting some well-worn-but-comfortable slipper and enjoy life.

I don't want confortable, in real life. I want to be challenged. The world is my playground. I want to know what lies beyond the ridge, over the chasm, at the bottom of a pit, in a natural cave or in an abandoned building. Slippers are nice, but I'll trade them any day for boots to travel and discover in. I'll sometimes long for my Spathi slippers but the better the reboot game, the fewer and father in-between those moments are going to be.

In its strictest sense, Star Control is the Earthling's space division. In effect, if you don't have the Earthlings in the game, you can't have Star Control in the game.  This having been said, Star Control is, also, a philosophy, a way to view the wars: you control stars / star systems, with the ultimate goal of overpowering your opponent. SC1 managed this solely through war, while SC2 managed this through diplomacy (mainly) and war (somewhat).

What SC2 introduced beautifully and became (I believe) the most interesting aspect of the game, is exploration. SC1 had some of it, but it was rather limited. SC2 allowed you to find new alien races, precursor artifacts, dead civilizations, lore, new dimensions, etc.  This is what struck the imagination of most.

From my understanding of these (and other) forums, what people are looking for is the feeling of novelty, of discovery. The moment when you realize that the Mael-Num and the Melnorme are related (if not the same species). The moment when you hear through the Melnorme that a civilization was destroyed by the Druuge to deflect the ire of the Kzer-za.

That is what constitutes the Star Control experience.  Without any link whatsoever between the new game and the prior universe, however, it will be "a new space exploration/rpg/action game by an old name". You need to get some lore (at least) in the new game, so there is a feeling of connectedness. Mechanics, space exploration and a name are not enough to integrate the reboot with the old games.  If you could at least get the precursors in, see a rainbow world being created and interact with, say, the Taalo (even if briefly), then you've established continuity.

Determination to awe the players

Ambition and boldness

Flawless execution

Commitment to revive the franchise

If you miss your mark on the fourth one, you'll effectively kill the franchise forever. It took 25 years and a beyond-dedicated fanbase to give SC another life. If it is an half-assed attempt at life, the fans will kill the game and will prefer to cherish fond memories than to have mixed feelings towards the current incarnation.

You can't please everybody, but you can please most. In Wing Commander: Privateer, you could make it as bounty hunter, as a pirate or as a trader. If you could make it somehow possible, in SCR (Star Control Reboot) to allow players to be more combat-oriented, more exploration-driven or trading-oriented (think of StarFlight II for trading), you will effectively cast a very wide net, that will allow you to mitigate whatever impact your "Beyond-hardcore-I'm-stuck-25-years-ago-and-it-was-better-that-way-with-no-internet-and-top-down-combat-and-the-Ur-Quan-are-there-and-I-want-the-Arilou-and-the-Spathi-and-(whatever SC2 was)" fans will have on the community.

I'm not saying not to cater to them. But don't cater too much to them. You're not doing a remake of SC2.

The precursors located rainbow worlds to shape an arrow that pointed towards a different region of space altogether.  You are doing that.  Sadly, the races of the first 2 games are not going to be there, but let's embark on a new journey.

Oh, and I just want to mention a way to have Humans that wouldn't be Earthlings in the new game: The Humans of Earth stem from the crew of a lost Colony ship of the Original Human Race. The crash was disastrous and they went back to the stone age, eventually losing everything they had: history, technology, etc.

Sorry for the long post, but I like to explain myself fully.

I do suspect the Orz may make an appearance in some form or other. 

That's awesome to hear the Orz may make SOME sort of appearance in the game. They're by far the most ludicrous, mysterious and intriguing of the bunch because... well, WHERE did they come from? How did they get here, and more specifically, how did the mere fact that the Androsynth discovered their existence cause them to be ABLE to exist here? And what the hell happened to our robotic human counterparts?! God, I can't tell you how many times I've tried to fathom what happened there. Before the Internet was around, and everything that was possible to be discovered was discovered, my buddy and I searched high and low across the entirety of the map thinking one of the stars might hold the answer, or that a new system would pop up - we even explored every inch of the Arilou's alternate dimension thinking maybe there was a gateway that didn't pop up until you got close to it or something... we tried everything we could think of and came up short. Sadly, when revisiting later, turns out the mystery could NOT be solved! It lives on in the heads of the creators...

But HOW do you come up with something like that?!? There needs to be at least a couple astounding and baffling realizations like that. That's what leads to...

Challenge #3: Defining some core values.

Space is seriously a very weird place. I mean, space itself can't even be fathomed. Where's it end? Where'd it start? That is a core value of space in general, and including some of that into the game is very important. Little mysteries - some of them solvable, some completely unsolvable - were so prevalent in Star Control II - it was perfect to establish for the long-lasting love people give to SCII. But NOTHING was standard or easy, or solved just by killing a lot of guys. Sure, that's how you garnered the respect of the Thraddash, but that tied into their culture. Most challenges required some serious thought and quick thinking. This should definitely make it into the reboot. What game these days doesn't have you "solving" things by moving in and just kill kill killing? It's what made SCII different and is at the very core of the experience... which also might make it less appealing to the masses, so it'll definitely be a hurdle in marketing. But if the end goal of this game is to waltz in and slaughter everyone in sight, then the point was missed.

Another core value is the humor between you and the aliens. But that's already been mentioned several times, so what I think is an important thing to point out and very central to the experience is: There's also a lot of INTERACTION BETWEEN THE OTHER SPECIES THEMSELVES. Both humorous and very dark. None of these races exist alone in this galaxy, and there's so many nods to that, it's actually pretty incredible. They're not only away of other species, but sometimes have long, storied histories with their neighbors. Sometimes it's in the past, sometimes it's current and ongoing, and some of it is even brought on by you as the player. Think about it... The Slylandro bought their self replicating probe from the Melnorme, and remember eons past when the Precursors stopped by. The Supox and Utwig have a very unlikely friendship. The Pkunk see the Yehat as brothers, who in turn see the Pkunk as... well, cannon fodder. But the Yehat love their little babies the Shofixti. The VUX hate the humans, the Syreen loathe the Mycon for destroying their homeworld, the Druuge have a long history of shenanigans with other races, the Umgah are playing tricks on the Ilwrath, the two Urquan are fighting a holy battle, the Arilou have long loved the humans, and the Melnorme are gossiping constantly about who's sleeping with who (Hint: It's the Chenjesu and Mmrnmhrm.) These interactions between the different factions are what made this universe believable and dare I say, loveable.

You guys really have to nail the names of the new races, too. And jeez, that's a tall order. These are all so classic! And more than that, the names of these races SOUND LIKE what they are!! And the names tie to the races, and the races tie to their ship design! It's like... how this all came together in 1992 to form the perfect balance baffles me to this day... The NAME Spathi sounds dorky and weird, the perfect cowards. The Urquan sounds ominous, the Orz sound like they're from somewhere *else* and didn't quite know how to name themselves so they just shouted a sound, the Arilou is perfect for our prototype big-headed, bug-eyed aliens that have been sighted for so long, and their flying saucer matches that completely. The Pkunk SOUND like goofy birds, the Druuge sound so shady and scandalous. Even the Slylandro sound like little energy-based polyps swirling around their gaseous giant. And their probe is representative of that. So what I'm saying is - through ALL OF THIS - the universe has to mesh, it has to work, and its denizens need to FIT with each other and their places in the universes. It's gonna take an astronomical amount of thought and planning, but that's what you have all of us here for!!!!!!!!

A mystery as deep as the Orz, though? Man, I've been trying to think of one for the last 23 years.........

Your best bet to get specific answers early on what we are doing that keeps it Star Control is to become a Founder for the game. 

Ditto...

I'll be one of the first people to sign up for the Founders program once its available.

I really think that if you can't include the original races, atleast include their ships for the melee, even if you can't say the race's name (simply list them by the ship's given name, such as Dreadnought, Nemesis, Eluder, Transformer... etc)

None of the lore!?

.....Ouch.

While reading problem one, I was gonna say that it's certainly possible to change the venue and leave the well-known alien community behind (as painful as that might be), but the multiple layers of Star Control history is a key component of the franchise (Precursors, Sentient Milieu, the Androsynth Rebellion, the Alliance of Free Stars, the Ur-Quan battle thralls, the Orz and the Arilou, Syreen hotties, etc). I realize that Star Control also has a unique approach to gameplay, but they work in tandem. It's like I always say: Batman isn't just a guy in a suit. He's an ego.

It's a tough pill to swallow. Could I do so? I really don't know.

I realize it doesn't really help anything, but I'm really curious as to why the lore must be legally divorced from the title. Can someone expand on that for me please?

A lot of it has to do with ethics.

We didn't create the lore and we do not recognize Accolade as having any rights to that lore.

Also, we are huge fans of Paul Reiche and Fred Ford and have talked to them at length and while they said they'd love to work on a new Star Control, their company, Toys for Bob, is owned by Activision and as far as Stardock is concerned, THEY own the rights to the lore.

Anyone who has ever created something, whether it be a drawing or a story can hopefully understand why it is important to respect the creativity and work of others. 

I do believe that in the future, Paul and Fred will be able to work on a new game in the Ur-Quan continuity. But until then, the new continuity splits off from the Ur-Quan continuity back during the Precursor time.  

I'm not a lawyer so I don't know or care about the legality.  But I am someone who has spent his entire adult life creating things and I know what is right and wrong. I won't use the Ur-Quan lore unless Paul and Fred are involved.  Even if I had their permission, i would still prefer to wait until they can finish their story. 

Even Accolade had the rights to the Ur-Quan lore, I would consider anyone trying to extend it without Paul and Fred's involvement as being little better than fan fiction.  I.e. Star Control 3.

It is better for us to support and spot light the canon Ur-Quan lore on StarControl.com and then create, with you guys, a new continuity.

If you want to understand what the new Star Control vision is, read Ready Player One.

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