Oh

Well, i didnt like SoaDA very much, but i really liked Sins and Ironclad in general.

I wish them all the luck in the world.

I have a couple of comments, not that anyone cares but I'll wait till the body is at least cold.

Hoping that too.

Agreed. The move from a unique 4X/RTS hybrid to another "Me too" MOBA still confounds me. Especially when it didn't do *that* much differently. 

Here's hoping they go back to SoaSE. 

^ That. 

The problem isn't that DotA games don't do well. League of Legends, Smite, Awesomenauts and probably Heroes of the Storm all do fairly well for themselves. So why have Dawngate/SoaDA/Infinite Crisis basically everything else failed? The problem is you need an absolutely massive marketing appeal to reach the critical mass of players required to get decent matchmaking going. Post-release SoaDA had basically no people playing it. Why? Well, we can look at successes and see what they've got going for them.

LoL: It was the first free to play entry. It also helped that it had a big marketing budget. You could also make the argument it was the first standalone product. Yes, Demigod was there before it, but Demigod had massive netcode problems on launch. GG Overture was also before it, but trying to sell a PS franchise on the Xbox, especially in Japan is a recipe for failure not to mention the gameplay is quite different from what we expect from MOBAs today. (which is kinda sad since in many ways Overture was ahead of its time)

DotA: Specifically, DotA2. DotA2 unsurprisingly converted much of its initial audience over from the DotA1 which is pretty much the same game except less shiny. Being the flagship title to sell Steam to people also does not hurt.

Smite and Awesomenauts: These two games differ extremely in their style of gameplay from your standard MOBA. Smite plays much more like an action RPG and Awesomenauts like a platformer. Thus, there's a much higher chance it will appeal to a different type of player than those already invested in another MOBA. Which is important because there's typically a large amount of time that needs to be invested into a MOBA to play it. So instead of trying to simply poach disenfranchised players they can get "new" players in. Smite also had the unique monetization where it's either microtransactions OR pay one price for everything.

HotS: Is attempting a radically different approach. "Casualising" the game (in my opinion) does little to nothing to actually distinguish your game from competitors. However, that plus marketing your game to the userbase of ones that don't typically play MOBAs (Diablo, WoW, Hearthstone players) might give you a solid chance. It is yet to be seen if this will hold. Another game that's trying this that no one here's probably heard of is Lord of Vermilion Arena, which is largely trying to convert its large arcade following. Though that might be a regional thing. I don't think many game companies have servers in Japan. (that aren't Japanese themselves)

SoaDA was only really first in terms of its quest system, which wasn't enough (similar to how a slightly different map and some side objectives in the form of the spirit wells was not enough for Dawngate). It also couldn't convert its previous playerbase. And it wasn't a unique monetization (fairly sure there's nothing left, but hey maybe someone's really original). Why is it important to have something unique that you can market or some audience you can convert? Because there was one game with that that LOST that element and pretty much failed after. Heroes of Newerth. HoN was basically a standalone DotA (except not really cuz it didn't emulate some important things), but once DotA2 was "released" that basically sunk that game.

My boy plays a lot of League of Legends (To where he blows ridiculous amounts of money on "character upgrades"), and i just don't see the attraction to it. Like i said. Not my cup of tea i guess. Though probably the same could be said for any FTP MMO now. With the "pay to win" system. I'm kind of ignorant on MMO's these days, because i haven't really played anything on a regular basis since City of Villains, and Eve Online.

So what is the Attraction? I stopped MMO's, because i got tired of paying a monthly fee for doing the same crap over, and over, and over again. The relentless grind just to make a small accomplishment. Same "Dungeons" over, and over. Same quest etc. etc. In WoW there was only so much Walkity Walkity Walk, Stabity Stabity Stab i could take. Same for anything similar like SWTOR, and the now dead Warhammer Online. MOBA's IMO are the same deal in a different skin. Not to mention the outright hateful attitudes of some of the people you deal with online. I play games to unwind, relax, and enjoy myself. Not to get even more white knuckle stressed out, and aggravated than at my full time job (some things in Eve Online could be considered a "full time job"). So again what is the attraction to this? Someone clue in the ignorant.

Another thing i don't understand is why abandon your "cash cow" so to speak? If you are good at something you stick with it. IC could have done anything they wanted on the side while still focusing on what put them on the map. Hell Relic managed to pull it off. With far less, and they were successful for a long time. They even managed to switch niches from Homeworld, to Warhammer 40k, to WW II. Granted they remained RTS centric until DoW2, and Space Marine.

Ironclad switches from an ambitious pioneering niche that turned out to be very successful. To a been there, done that MOBA. That in the end after all this dev time unsurprisingly tanks.... I just don't get it.

Anyone wanna a bet to the start of a Kickstarter for SINS2?

I say 6 months..

Well it would be the obvious thing for them to do. The main reason they likely wouldn't do it is if they went bankrupt, but then they'd have to sell the rights. And in that case, there's a decent chance Stardock would buy the Sins IP since it would be worth more to them than anyone else, since they already have experience with it. Though I suppose no one expected Gearbox to buy the rights to Homeworld...

Speaking of Homeworld, let's not forget Ironclad game in third in the auction for the Homeworld rights. It has been a few years now but presumably they would not have made the effort if they did not have the means of funding both SoaDA and a Homeworld game if they won. So it is quite possible Ironclad still has some crash reserves left.