In my current game I am playing as a evil custom faction and the Altarians hate me. They just dow'd me. Even though I am evil I have not gone to war with other factions so feels odd that they are willing to attack me like that, since they are suppose to be a good guy faction.
Do good buy factions actually behave like good guys or does the AI behave the same for everybody after all?
Yes, they do act benevolently, but not all benevolent civs are pacifist civs. The Altarians are NOT a peaceful civ. They are a Spiritual/Xenophobic civ, and for Spiritual civs, differences of ideology make or break your relationship with them. For Xenophobic civs, they naturally distrust all other factions, so anytime you have a penalty with them, it gets magnified.
This results in the Altarians being a Benevolent version of the Krynn, Templar-like crusaders against evil who look down their nose at everyone else for their sin, all while being huge hypocrites about it. The Altarian tech tree lampshades this, as the further down each weapon path you go, the more they tell themselves that they swear they're not starting to enjoy blowing things up.
Compare them to the Iconians, who are also Benevolent, but ARE peaceful. Specifically, Peaceful/Cultural/Opportunistic. Can you remember the last time the Iconians were even mad at you? Exactly.
Ideology traits make for negative relations.
Think US/UK and Russia in WWII and after. You may have an enemy of my enemy is my friend. That doesn't mean you like them. Patton was in favor of immediately attacking Russia at the end of WWII. MacArthur was in favor of using nukes when the Chinese backed North Korea and through us back to the 38th parallel.
While I think this is a simplistic (dare I say gimicky?) thing. It has parallels.
It is really shocking the more I study history that the "regular" citizen is so uninformed. They listen to sound bites. Nazi Germany really was the leader in modern propaganda and most people are sheep. I am not talking about people on this forum by and large. Just look at any comment thread almost anywhere and it will frighten you on the level of ignorance and hatred.
Hell, in the 80's I had classmates that noticed my name was "German" (actually it was from the Alsace-Lorraine border, but never mind) so my family must have been Nazi sympathizers! Dude, my family moved to Texas from Iowa before WWI! About 1/2 of my ancestors were Irish and British!
This is the stuff wars are made of. Small minds, bigotry and nationalism.
The US has been involved in military action more than people think. 1898 Spanish-American war, 1917-1918 WWI, 41-45 WWII, Korea, Vietnam, Grenada, Panama, El Salvador/Nicaragua, 2 times in Iraq and Afghanistan. We have had several wars with Mexico, Canada until around 1800. Then there are the lesser ones of Libya (2x, as the song goes "from the halls of Montezuma to the shores of Tripoli http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marines%27_Hymn), Serbia-Croatia, now ISIS.
So you can think of the Altarians as Americans. We are peaceful, to a point. I am not trying to troll or start a fight, just giving examples. Many of those wars were justified, some not so much.
The whole point is that it isn't about heroes and villains. It's about power struggles. That is one reason why they didn't use "good" and "evil". but "benevolent", "pragmatic", and "mean".
Secondly, never trust someone who is truly convinced they are fighting for the good. They will feel that any and all tactics are justified. A sneak knows he is a sneak and might even apologize as he betrays you, but a true hero can strike without hesitation or guilt.
I always pursue neutral ideology and in two parties where i met Altarians they acted like drunken thugs. Demanding stuff constantly, treating with annihilation even if i was stronger and such. Drengin on the other hand were rather reasonable - asked (not demanded) for stuff a bit, traded a bit and stop asking after my military much became higher than their. But i heard they ignore your ideology so no more penalties from that.
Besides as Dregin you eat and enslave other sentient beings, as the "Good Guys" this makes them want to hurt you.
I can't seem to play Terrans as the Pragmatists their AI has them as, or Altarians as Benevolents with out the other DOWing me :/
I should play someone else in a future game and see how frequently the AI Terran and AI Altarians DOW each other.
The Terrans are always good. In every game. It`s getting sort of predictable now. I`m thinking of making a new version of them which is more real world and just acts benelovent.
I have yet to get them as good. I played as Altarians, I played as Benevolent, the Terrans went Pragmatic and hated my guts.
Look at world history. Isn't clear that terrans are inherently good? Oh, I forgot, they don't teach history anymore. My bad!
Actually I see two problems in this ideology business. First that the degree of difference skould figure in: pragmatic-ben should have less impact than mal-ben; second, the tolerance level of a race should figure. To some extent the latter seems to be working, but there could be more done with this.
In a word, "no".I've already pointed out the three alignment choices for this game are "Neutral Evil", pure selfishness, which the Altarians embody, "Lawful Evil", obeying the rules until it benefits you directly, and you can get away with it, which the Iridium embody, and "Chaotic Stupid", which the Drengin embody, attack-attack-ATTACKing themselves to death.There's no "good" guys in this game, everyone behaves in exactly the same fashion.Something about the moment any strategy is acceptable to destroy an enemy, you become indistinguishable from that with which you fight?This is something akin to "a friend is just an enemy that hasn't attacked us yet".
Quick, let's sign a petition to force Stardock to bring back the Torians!
I like to think of good and evil as two extremes on a continuum. both are very very bad.
Being good doesen't mean being stupid, waiting for the Drengins to kill you, and burning your civilisation to ashes.
Being good also doesn't mean sitting back and doing nothing while the Dregin murder, eat and enslave others.
Very true.
the alignment system is mostly based on the coloization choices you pick, so in a role playing sense i guess the civs that pick the benevolent option are actually the good guys. those choices sort of reflect how you treat native life and your own ciolonists. i think that also makes sense in a real world comparison. you can't act "benevolent" in the face of some ruthless rival power - they'd just perceive it as weakness and attack you. the colony events are a different matter. when you get the choice to leave the natives alone, steal half their stuff and leave them alone or steal all their stuff and eat them, you can actually show your character, since you are fully in control of the situation and they are subject to your decision. picking the noble answer in that case is an act of benevolence.
on the galactic level where you interract with rival powers, that's a different matter entirely. you are not in full control of the situation, so every decision you make must be pragmatic to some extent.
Yes, let us continue to beat this drum my friend! Good idea, needs work.
But I had not attacked anybody. I wasn't an aggressor safe for how I treated worlds I colonized.
As the dregin you have slave pits, you eat and torture your slaves. Should a good empire stand by and do nothing. Just because you have not attacked them yet.
All that's required for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.... Winston Churchill I believe.
I really hate the Altarians. Which is ironic given how much of my life has been dedicated to telling their story.
I guess hate isn't the right word. They are unusually familiar with real evil and as a result tend to be very aggressive in rooting it out. Which is ironic since this (desire to eradicate "evil") is what may ultimately destroy the galaxy in the first expansion.
There's an interesting comic book series called Injustice:Gods Amongst us. The Altarians are like Wonder Woman in that (or another analogy, Wonder Woman in Kingdom Come).
You've clearly never tasted Torian.
Snathi taste a bit nutty ...
So basically they are like one of your favorite bad guys to fight in the game. A love-hate relationship so to speak.
You can't act good to be good. You have to act evil to be good.*head explodes*.Your ideology is determined by the choices you make. People take the best choices available to them on a colony-by-colony basis.So, you mean, "pragmatic"?*head explodes*Good people can't just stand idly by doing good, they need to do evil to combat evil!*head explodes*
Yes sometimes even good people have to choose the lesser of two evils and to do nothing is also a choice. If I'm out giving food to the homeless and I see a man beating a little girl what is the good action to carry on feeding the homeless and ignore them; or do I stop him physically if necessary? Which is the good action there?
Calling someone else to physically stop him is just abdicating responsibility, and choosing to do something is still a choice if I could have chosen to stop him.
The ideological paths are somewhat caricatured in this game, but no where does it suggest to be benevolent you have to be a total pacifist and ignore the evil actions of others if they aren't aimed at you.
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