Hi,
I'am a very big fan of long Tech-Trees because I hate it if I have finished all the Techs in the middle of the game.
In the Beta 5.x the Tech Trees was not really long but now, through the specialisation the Trees are shorter than ever before
because its now only the "half" of the whole techs researchable
The Idea is good that you have to specialize you and can't resaurch all the techs in one game but now you are finished with all the techs after
a "couple" of turns. That reduce the fun extrem I feel so...
BTW hope you understand what I like to say because I'am not really a native english speaker
I understood you correctly
I don't feel the tech tree is too short as it is, but maybe I haven't played it long enough.
I think I like it this way, you can still trade with the AI to get your missing techs, you choose a path, the AI chooses another, than you trade.
I agree wholeheartedly, I've been saying this for a while.Where's the 1D-2D-3D-4D phasing?Where's the teleporters?Where's the terror stars?I read in the notes somewhere Antimatter Missiles are supposed to be back in, but why oh why every time we go to the "future" do options and tech vanish?Why are we more limited?Where's the advances?The adaptation?The ability to turn useless dead planets into something of value, or at least less of an eyesore?
They took out Anti matter missiles? WHY?
ah, I haven't gone far enough, then. All my games in 5.3 have crashed way before that, and the one I started yesterday is bugged too.Then it is a real problem that it is that short. But it has nothing to do with tech specialization, it is a different issue, imho
I noticed in an earlier post that only one specialization could be chosen. I am thinking there may be a way to still have the other specializations but the cost could go up to research them next one double and the next double again. or the benefits could be diminished in a similar fashion. it seems if we can imagine more than one specialization now that in the future they would explore more than one branch of a tech... and as a side note beta 6 is waaaaaaayyyy better... Thanks
Sorry but that is nonsense, there aren't that many Specializations, half of the tech tree is a gross exageration.
Another silly exageration, you should avoid these as it prevents people taking your point seriously.
If you can research all specializations they literally become pointless, seriously just dump them and add the current ones as normal techs on the tech tree. That is in essence what you are asking for when you say you want to be able to research them all.
Making people choose in this way gives you an extra strategic choice to make, and in a stratergy game extra strategic choices are good.
As for the length of the tech tree, so mod it and add more techs yourself, or mod it and get rid of the specializations and add them back in as normal techs.
The way they have made specilizations work now is also great for modders in general as it allows them an extra choice in structuring custom tech trees.
I know not everyone supports this and there is no design decision you can make that some people won't object to but it actually makes the game richer, not poorer in possibility IMO so I support them in this.
I`am just in turn 250 but with the Tech Trade I fear that I have all techs after 600 truns.
That ist to quick.
A really good Game on the largest Map needs more than 1000 to 1500 turns or more. (played many games with that counts of turns with the Beta 5.3 and finished the research circa in trun 800)
Where is than the Fun if you have nothing to research after 600 turns.
Than is a major part missing for the rest of the game.
Don't missunderstand me, I know thats absolut impossible that you can research into the endlessness
but I think there are many ideas ond possibillitys could be added in the Tech Trees that its enough for a good long game over 1500 turns
Hope so
That was with intent in " "
Just to show what I mean
I don't think it does show what you mean though, the change makes a fairly minor difference to how many techs there are to research while adding more strategic depth to the game and more options for modders in describing race tech trees.
I'm sure someone who disagrees with this decision will quickly make a mod available that takes out the specilizations and re-adds them as basic techs, that is fairly easy to do in the XML and will give you exactly what you want in a simple mod.
I've debated about this with myself. I do like long tech trees. I also like the idea of mutually exclusive specializations. After all... its called specialization. Though there is inconsistency in the language. A specialization seems more likely to be exclusive. An Optimization, on the other hand, need not be.
The tech trees will certainly grow over time with the addition of other features (like espionage, etc). But as it stands, there aren't enough techs for those playing on a larger map which generally takes more time to win. You could make research slower through the settings. However, this also changes the "feel" of the game to feel slower, rather than give the player more to do or more to decide.
My personal preference would be... make the ones called specialization mutually exclusive. Make the ones called optimization available. Add smaller incremental research bonuses. Some research gives a boost too quickly... like the diplomacy tech gives 1 diplomacy point... which is a lot. It could easily be split into a Two-part research.
Anyway, just my two cents.
The current "specializations" aren't special, they are efficiencies and should be their own lines in the tech trees. I've been saying this for weeks, collapsing specializations aren't fun if they specializations aren't special and as that are now, they are not.
If Stardock doesn't fix this by release I plan on making my own tech trees that move the current "specializations" to their own lines, like a line for construction efficiency(-5% building costs, -10% building costs, etc), a line for building efficiency(+10% bonus to class type, etc) for example. This still reduces total number of techs so I will have to find out what else I can add in for actual specializations but I'll be happier without collapsing specializations that aren't special.
mmhh I think my english is simply not enough
I like the specialisation but I don't like that it makes short tech trees shorter...
simply thats it...
Are you 600 turns into a Beta 6 game? You must have played continuously since it was released yesterday.
What size map, shape and number of planets? You can slow down the tech rate in the options on set up. You just might get all techs at 600 turns. No real big deal there. Play again and turn the options down to the sloooowest setting on an Insane map with RARE planets and tell me where you get after 600 turns.
Sorry I don't see how that will reduce the total number of techs if you move them to being techs rather than specializations maybe I'm just not following you intention here though.
On the point about how many techs there are I agree it would be great to have more and I might mod my own race with a much longer tech tree, although that will unbalance the others. I just think the specilizations locking once you choose one is a good design decision. I think having longer tech trees in general would be great though. But keep in mind that the game has a tech tree for every race even though many of them are repeated across different tech trees that's still more total techs than a game like this normally has.
I love race specific tech trees by the way that was the best part of ToA too.
Does anyone knows how to disable tech specializations? I have found TechSpecializationDefs.xml one for every race perhaps deleting/disabling them?
You could, of course, download my mod and have the research rate set at 25% (or 10%). Then you won't get everything for a long time. (Horray for self-promotion)
But yes, this doesn't address the issue of the amount of specializations and techs. It just seems like there are so few techs - if you start as Intuitive, you can get more than half the way through Age of Expansion, maybe all the way through if you pick the 12 lowest techs. And I'm not saying 'nerf Intuitive'.
I tried to do a straightforward 'delete everything in SpecializationDefs' and 'remove Specialization lines in TechDefs', but it crashes when starting a new game. I'll take a more in-depth look at it though.
Sorry I don't see how that will reduce the total number of techs if you move them to being techs rather than specializations maybe I'm just not following you intention here though.On the point about how many techs there are I agree it would be great to have more and I might mod my own race with a much longer tech tree, although that will unbalance the others. I just think the specilizations locking once you choose one is a good design decision. I think having longer tech trees in general would be great though. But keep in mind that the game has a tech tree for every race even though many of them are repeated across different tech trees that's still more total techs than a game like this normally has.I love race specific tech trees by the way that was the best part of ToA too.
I would bring all of the +10% or +1 adjacency into a single efficiency tech rather than one for each type of building as it is now. It makes more sense for the reduces building costs and for the reduced maintenance but many efficiency ideas would still work between classes of buildings.
Reading TechDefs.xml I noticed Tech Point which is always 1 perhaps this counts as one per category so the specialization. Perhaps making them all 0 will disable specialization?
I can get it to work... kinda
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=434249376
I can simply remove the specialisation line, but that makes 3 branches (since it's A OR B OR C, each one needs a branch). This is fine, since researching any one of the specializations unlocks all of the branches. The problem is that there are 183 (ie, ~61) specializations. The Tech Tree can't draw that many more branches (some of the branches have more specializations in, which have even more in those, and each of those have 3 branches) and so it crashes.
I could instead make it require only one (specific) of them, or even require all of them. Not desirable though.
Oh well I was anxious to play the Beta 6 but hate the tech specialization so much that I will postpone it untill there is a solution.
My custom race in GC and every other strategy game I play focuses in research, so this limitation it's a game breaker to me to the point I don't like the game like this anymore.
They made a really bad decision on this..
Ok, I've got something that works. And it's quite nice. It adds new versions of the specializations that require one of the originals. This lets it be an addon rather than replacing.
There's just one problem - some of them don't appear in Tech Tree, but they do on the normal Tech screen.
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=434268818
I could increase the cost, but that might have adverse effects on trade value.
Time for me to get to work on this stuff...
Good news, Im also trying and testing..
A good idea would be to use the techdefs before the Beta 6 and use it as a base to modify the updated one and making it work exactly like it should!
This would be a lot easier to make some regex for if the specializations were in order. Some are (1 then 2 then 3), but others are (1 then 3 then 2)
It also doesn't help that one of the Drengin techs has a space in its name, and the Yor have a spec with 4 instead of 1 (3 options, but 2 3 4)
Slowly getting there though.
I'm holding off on modding this thing because I wonder if the devs will make any edits to the system before release. Doing a full mod on tech trees is... tedious.
I'm trying to come up with some regex commands to easily mod it, but... some of it's currently faster to do manually
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