I just bought GalCiv 3 when it went to half price, loving it so far.
I played Galciv2 for many many hours, and 3 is looking great!
However, I was surprised to see that I can still easily make a 'Sensor Ship', literally just placing as many sensors as I can - no engines or weapons or anything else.
After making just a handful fairly early on (before any wars are even close to starting) I have full sensor coverage of pretty much everything I need to see, making the need for sensors on other ships or developing sensor tech completely redundant.
It still feels like an exploit to me (albeit one I've always used).
With the AI able to soon adapt and learn from players ships, will this mean they will start building these OP ships too? At least as a player I'll know to take them out, but AI's probably won't realise how valuable they are anyway.
I was thinking that each sensor part you place should increase the weight / cost of the next sensor part, so putting a lot of sensor parts on a ship should make it very costly to build matching the usefulness of it.
Or maybe they shouldn't stack period- it doesn't make sense for them to stack.
Agree, also makes the + sensor range trait more valuable if they do not stack.
Now there's a very good idea I didn't even think of.
To my shame I have used this in the past. stopped using it after a while as you said to OP. Not stacking sensors a good idea
If there is going to be a sensor cap put into to place, it has to be larger than what it was in GalCiv 2. I found that the sensor range cap (15 parsecs max) was much too small in that game. Late in the game, it was possible to build ships with speed more than twice the range of sensor ships. That made sensor technologies nearly useless.
Even with a cap, it will be trivial to get around it. Just build tiny ships with nothing but a scanner(s) and perhaps an engine and fling it out in the middle of nowhere. In fact, capping scanning encourages building a swarm of tiny ships that do nothing but reveal the map for little or no maintenance.
I did exactly this for all of my games in GC II. Especially if I got the Galactic Achievement that gave all ships max scanning for free, But even without that, it would be trivial to put scanner(s) on tiny ships and fling them out into the unknown.
I would also point out that not being able to stack scanners really hurts the early game when you are first exploring and all one has is a short range scanner. Being able to put two scanners on a small ship while you are first exploring can be very valuable. And not game breaking at all, IMO.
I'm back to thinking that maybe increased cost and weight per scanner added to a ship is the way to go as well as diminishing returns for each one added.
That way you can put 2-3 on early ships at a push and have a useful range early on, but maybe later on you would have to use larger more costly ships (coupled with the increased cost per sensor part) to have a large range so wouldn't be able to have many, or at least it might mean you have fewer military ships as a trade off.
the biggest problem here is the way that sensor range stacks
a ship with range 1 shows 7 tiles
with range 2 it shows 19 tiles
and range 3 shows 37 tiles
each additional layer shows 6x its distance in additional tiles meaning a sensor range 50 shows 300 more tiles then a range 49
at very minimal costs this ship could easily reveal whole maps with good research and minituarization not to mention the range bonus's your anomolie ship gets
that being said maybie sensor range needs to be changed to sensor strength and have a certain strength value required to reach each additional range value
I actually think that having dedicated sensor ships so your military ships don't need sensors is strategically interesting, especially because those ships will be slow and vulnerable so you either have to dedicate resources to protect them or leave them as easy targets. I do think there should be some DR or something on sensors though because you don't need that many ships to uncover all of the smaller map sizes atm.
I like it the way it is. If you have one search light on a boat, you reveal a narrow path far ahead of you. If you surround your boat with lights you reveal an amount equal to the single light with each additional light. I know that comparisons can always be challenged, but if we were in a room together, I would convince you that stacking sensors is realistic and relatively inexpensive.
I understand the urgent need for some to add challenge to the game and while I think this is could be considered an exploit, it is certainly a tiny exploit. I have known that you can do this forever but beyond just playing around with the beta I have never felt compelled to pile sensors on, in any serious game. I suppose it could be very helpful on smaller maps with fewer habitable planets, but in most of my games I am too busy building colony ships and constructors to use any scouts beyond what the game gives me. That's just me. I know some play differently.
Anyway, there are minor exploits in every game, but you don't have to use them. I am not convinced that this "exploit" is a game changer that needs to be dealt with. Free upgrades is an example of a real exploit that must be fixed.
When you get down to it, the whole idea of stumbling around looking for stuff in the 25th century is unrealistic when you consider that in the early 21st century we are aware of thousands of exo-planets without sending out the first sensor ship. Where are the telescopes and planet finders? We have already beat that horse to death.
Recognizing that this is a game and not real life they have given us the option to turn on blind exploration, so you don't even see the stars. Use it for a greater challenge, but don't go building mega-sensor ships. Where is the fun in that?
BTW, when the game is released there will be a mid-game tech that reveals the entire galaxy. The only thing that would keep you from bee lining to that tech by turn 50 is the dratted "age of" thing.
I think it should be kept the way it is and full sensor ships being allowed. Any player who considers it a exploit or 'cheesy' should simply not design those ships, use some self restraint. For multiplayer, it should be agreed before the game kicks off, wether to allow them or not. Also, a mod may be able to be made that automatically does not allow them just for MP games. With limited/precious dev time this is a issue which can be resolved by players with out the devs taking any action.
Finally, if you ban it/make it impossible to have full sensor ships, that's it, everyone is effected wether they like it or not. Leaving it how it currently is just leaves it as player choice. There is a lot better things the devs can be doing with there time.
yes but in this example there is a finite limit unless you get a better light you will not be able to see further so once you've placed lights all around the boat adding more lights is useless. further each extra light adds the same amount of distance in gc3 each additional sensor adds multiple times the originals sensor range
with full sensor tech/ miniaturization and anomolie bonus's i could probably build a single ship that can view the entire map even on the largest map settings. being able to see where all my enemies ships are and how they are arranged is a huge tactical advantage.
from what ive heard the devs have pretty much left the free upgrades infor beta testing this is something that will get fixed by gold release as for sensor range this is definately a worthwhile discussion on if it should be changed and if so how? i think its a mechanic that needs to be fixed.
this becomes more of a seperate argument but imo theres a difference between knowing a planet is there and knowing whats happening on this planet right now
this could lead to a topic about having planets known from the beginning of the game or at least some closer planets
reveal as in no fog of war or reveal as in fully explored? the sensor ship provides the former the latter i dont see as game breaking
from what the devs have said the ai is going to have the same access to information as a human player so it wont know anything that you cant learn similarly
if this is the case then if i use the sensor ship and the ai doesent know how to take advantage of it then i have a massive advantage over the ai,
on the other hand if the ai uses this ship and i think its cheasy and dont then the ai has a massive advantage over me
That sounds reasonable for the time being.
Multiplayer it's less of an issue I think as everyone has an opportunity to use them, it's just another strategy with pros and cons that an AI wouldn't know about.
Single player it's less obvious - I suppose it depends if the AI is going to use them or not.That was my original thinking, in that because it's not possible for the AI to use them, then I consider it an exploit.
I do agree it's not a big deal and there are far more important things I'd rather see going in the game, I just thought I'd bring it up and see other people thoughts on it really I've decided to refrain from using them from now on in single player.
Why shouldn't space faring races have AWACS technology? Granted outfitting a tiny ship with max sensors is cheaper than maxing starbase sensors.
Well... once they put cloaking in... the sensor ships become less powerful...
Honestly, I've always liked to have a few survey ships with a lot of sensor tech. There is still a cost associated with building the sensor ships. If SD wants to balance them out. They can just let the AI build a few sensor ships of their own.
Seriously.. if the AI were to use half the "cheats" that the players did it would make the game rather fun.
The day that the AI builds a sensor ship with a grapefruit sized path, I will eat my hat, (and I love my hat). It will not happen. Yeah, Brad could make them do it, but he won't. The AI are followers of Buddha. They take the middle path in all things.
So, the AI will not use the "exploit". It is an option that the human player can choose to use, or not. It will be just like the blind exploration option, or the no galactic events option. The only difference is, there will be no check box for "no mega sensors".
We will probobly have to do a few tweaks to sensors. In GC2 there was a max sensor range to address this issue,but we were trying to avoid that. I will put some more thought into it.
There are many great features available to you once you register, including:
Sign in or Create Account
