Like the previous Gal Civ, it is looking like there are different ship sizes and component sizes.
How does miniaturization work? Is it still a number + percentage and then miniaturization increases the hull size?
I think, even in GC2, that miniaturization affected the mass of the components you added to a ship, rather than affecting the ship's physical size (although it is hard to tell other than from the ship size classification). It looks from what I have seen in playing it that this is true for GC3 as well.
Is the hyperion building that affects miniaturization working? I monkeyed with it today and didn't seem to do anything.
I believe it is currently broken. I do not build any of the Galactic research wonders as I am pretty certain that they are not working or not working correctly.
From what I've seen miniaturization seems to shrink the weapon/equipment size, what was once, "paraphrasing", 11 mass become a 9 per-say like GC2.
What kind of confuses me is, lets assume I make a ship and load it with equipment, weapons and max it 85/85 capacity. Then I build it on a planet with the hyperon shrinker,,,, well it seems kind of redundant. So now I got a ship thats 75/85 from my hyperon planet and I assume I have to refit it to fill the extra space? I think it would make more sense to make the hyperon shrinker a empire wide wonder build that effects all ship yards period, "so ya know what your building in the designer". As it is at a glance and try, it seems like a redundant building because you cant make an overloaded ship 95/85 to accommodate the hyperon perk with out all the work around.
As larsenex said ,"I believe it is currently broken.". I don't even bother building that building because it doesn't seem to do anything worthwhile at the moment.
The Hyperion Shrinker does work.
But it works on empire level not on planetary level. It raises the Mass Cap of your ships by 10%, and every military adjacent building increases this bonus by another 5%.
In the following screenshots i will show the Terran Titan as buildable with a hyperion shrinker in the empire (with adjacent military buildings) and the same ship design after i destroyed the shrinker.
To see the changes you have to actually enter into design mode of a ship, just looking at the ship list does not show the proper limits.
The Screenshots:
Before: Note the current mass (304) and the current mass limit (307).
After: Note the current Mass (304) is now higher than the Mass limit (255).
hrmm i diddent think it worked because of the specified on this planet now i wonder how far i can break this
Edladner,
as requested in the pm:
I conquered Drengi and built the Hyperion improvements there, because they had some military buildings already there.
The screenshot:
Shrinker gives 10% plus 30% from adjacency bonuses.
... and it was easier to conquer Drengi than to just build your own we loves Beta
My own planets were busy doing more useful things. I was not going to waste time and effort to bring Drengi upto scratch in the end phase of the game, so i simply used what was there already to get any use out of it. Big misconception by the way 'end phase of the game', turn 141 should still be the early middle of the game not one of the last turns before you have annihilated everything. On a large map an odd 150 turns to complete a game is to short by far.
Thecw ok, I would not design ships myself that require those kind of events to transpire to activate them. I know what I need to build to get my ships released as I need them. That would be too iffy to count on.
Neither would i, nor should anyone rely on it, but the auto designer does update the standard (template) ships to make use of the higher mass cap. So if the situation arises in a game let the game use it, but don't manually design ships that need it.
gotcha, gotta buy core ships at that point
Yep. If only ship templating would work properly. Might as well wish for design parameterisation or type placement*.
Design parameterisation.
The ability to specify the balance between the various (up-gradable) equipment classes. Example 10% engine, 20% shielding, 5% sensors, 5% life support, 50% beam weapons, 10% armour and the rest 0%.
Type placement.
A placeholder piece of equipment with a class and stats to be placed on a hard point in the design. Example a 'beam class placeholder'. This allows the player to add this piece of equipment to the ship design with specified scale, orientation, animation, and other settings (including something like an order number). The auto designer should then replace this placeholder with the current beam weapon in the game.
Of course this means there should be placeholder pieces for Beam, Kinetic, Missile, Shield, Armor, Point defense, Engine, Sensor, Life support parts and possibly even for the modules like the transport, colonization, and construction modules.
Combined.
When you then develop (research) a better ship tech the auto designer should upgrade the placeholder piece with the state of the art version of the right class. It should honour the distribution of mass as specified by the parameters. By giving the placeholder pieces an order number he can even determine which ones to use when. For example you could design a ship with 5 missile placeholders, so when the auto designer needs only to place 3 he will know which 3 to use.
So this would suggest to me that the top ability would get you in terms of miniaturization +10% base + 30%, so 40% overall, assuming 6 tiles with the Hyperion Shrinker?
It should scale linearly this time around, as there's no percentages unlike in GC2.
Correct, for most races. The Krynn can build the Labor Oracle which gives a Military Adjacency bonus of 4. This can result in a total of 55% (10% + 9 * 5%).
Funny thing is the Hyperion buildings are player wonders, so if you are lucky and you conquer a planet where there is already a Hyperion Shrinker then your empire total miniaturization level increases even further.
You get +70% from base tech.
On a huge hull, +40% seems to get me 315.
On a huge hull, +55% seems to get me 337.
Is there any upper limit? Theoretically with those huge maps, you could have dozens of shrinkers and the only upper limit would be funding.
Edit:
Tried it out. +1.3 will get you 450 on a huge hull, so a huge hull is 150 in size I think?
So
Base: 150
All technologies: 255
Then after that - what hyperion shrinkers you can get?
Update.
With +8.3, things get comical. A ship is 10x as large as before:
I would prefer that the Hyperion Shrinker would be planet specific rather than empire wide. It would emphasize its importance and limit the ability to do what Unleashed elf was able to do. A 195 hitpoint ship with 1500 mass (corrected from the word logistics) points, wow! So every ship he is building is a game breaker. It would be more fair if the special ship came from only one planet. Then players would be inclined to design specially designed Super Capitals, true Dreadnoughts. True leader ships for the each fleet.
In the current Beta, I don't see how would a opposing human be able to tell that a ship has that many logistics points. I guess you would see the weapons/defense values are very high. The planet with the Hyperion shrinker would be a important target to take out. Managing the ships that are produced on the Hyperion shrinker world wouldn't be hard to manage. When those ships show up, they would be special. Could give the game that special ship feel, like having a Battlestar, a Enterprise, a Yamamoto, a Scimitar. You could build special fleets around that ship to keep it alive.
How did you do that? I would like to know.
I actually really like that idea.
Rename the hyperion shrinker to hyperion shipyard. Then, rather than provide miniaturisation, let it build a class of ship beyond huge.
The way the Hyperion Shrinker is described in game convinced me that it was useless, and so I never built it. Thanks to this thread I now know that it works differently and could be very valuable.
This should be an example to the Stardock developers of how important it is to get the little things (like tooltip descriptions) correct - if you don't, your players might never try out a feature that you worked hard to get into the game.
There is already a Hyperion Shipyard. It should give extra hit point bonuses (5 HP base and 1 HP per building level) to all newly build ships. At the moment you can not build it because it is dependent on the tech "Hull Strengthening" which is disabled (in the Beta).
And even if that tech is not disabled then it will not function because it use the "OnConstructShip" game functionality and that system does not work. See: [.71.1][Bug] Hyperion Logistics and Supply System do not give ship bonuses
Part of the point of an open beta is for us to test everything and see if it does what it says. there are quite a few things that I have thought were broken, only to later learn were not... there is an incredible amount of variation with this game.... which means it has a huge amount of replayability...
The ship by UnleashedElf does not have 1500 logistics points, but 1500 mass points. It still has the standard 10 logistics cost. And this means once the Hyperion Logistics System bugs are fixed you can build a fleet of 6 of these monsters.
see: [.71.1][Bug] Hyperion Logistics and Supply System do not give ship bonuses and [.71.1][Bug] Hyperion Logistics System does not raise logistics cap.
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