So far I got sins yesterday I like it so far. However I have a feeling it will take me a while to really latch onto the game. Either it's me ot the games' but it seems like every RTS I play has a learning cliff. The other RTS's and 4X games I have played are Starcraft II and Endless space. Not so good in SC but I do pretty well in ES. Would any skill from those games translate over to sins?
One thing I don't like about sins is its lame tutorial (needs to take notes from extra credits) and said learning cliff. And unlike ES it's not turn based, so I don't have the luxury of being able to read though the tech tree and meticulously plot out what i'm going to do and weigh my options-or its tooltips for literally anything clickable.
Another problem I have is this thing where I have a comfort zone when playing against bots and play a level or two under what I'm really capable being even with. It's a bad habit that needs to be stopped, but I don't want to dive into multiplayer and get destroyed 90% of the time. In short I want to find that sweet spot where I feel enough pressure from the AI, but still be relatively safe from real danger so I can learn the game. I can't really experiment and get a feel for the game if my empire is crumbling right? Also what difficulty AI is equivalent an average human player?
As for actual gameplay what are the ins and outs of the Vasari rebels? I tried Advant and TEC, but the vasari just clicked. And also I have an unhealthy obsession with their starbases. They move! They're like a pocket titan for your gravity well!
From Endless Space no, because thats turn based and Sins not..
Tutorials are extremely lame indeed, but after some tries against easy AI you should at least get the basics of the game. And most things are logical like upgrading your planets population to not lose credits to underdevelopment, always build extractors to gain their income, build ships to win battles etc.
Oh, and you can pause the game by pressing the pause key, the default key to pause the game, so you have time to read, think etc, just dont ever do it online.
I suggest getting familiar with the other two first. VR is not an easy faction to master, but if you insist.. Colony capital ship (Jarrasul, the egg) + some light frigates will do in the beginning, expand fast, upgarde new world population to get rid of negative income, and ONLY build starbases if you must, say, when you reach your opponent and he has a stronger fleet. Or if you attack him try to build one at his gravity well, it can cripple the AI if you manage to finish and upgrade it.
General tips for every faction:
0. Start with quick start enabled. Trust me, it helps. And pirates off, they have a strange armor type that makes cheaper units bad against them, and can wreck your game early.
1. expand fast with two colony fleet (a colony capital ship and some light frigates, the second fleet is a colony frigate and some light frigates), upgrade the newly acquired planets to nullify uunderdevelopment tax and build extractors. You should own a big as possible territory, turtleing in this game is the worst idea. In 1v1 agaist AI you should own at least half of the map.
2. Max out your initial fleet supply but don't upgrade fleet capacity too much as it destroys your economy. Only upgrade it if you feel your fleet is not big enough (so you have 8 frigates and a capital ship while the AI has 12 light frigates and a capital ship).
3. If you colonized many worlds and upgraded them, you may start building a fleet. Light frigates, Corvettes, Long range frigates are all good for this purpose. If your opponent has too many fighters, then build some flak as well but don't build too much, their damage modifiers are poor against almost anything, I was fooled in the very beginning thinking this ship is better than the other because it attacks more. NO IT DOES NOT.
Oh btw there is someone on this forum who may say build only flak, this is his fetish. But just don't do it unless you feel like experimenting.
4. Ignore unnecessary research. Skilled players are divided on what research is useful to get early on. For me the early metal and crystal income increase ones, the terran population increase researches are always good, unlocking necessary ship types are awesome as well. If you have an Ice OR a Volcanic planet next to you, get the research that enables you to get it, but you may just ignore these and get easier planets instead. But don't get the Ice planet research if you don't have any nearby.
Culture platform is good as well just don't build too many, instead try to focus on trade, that is more efficient.
If you have many ships and lots of money, you should put money in hull, shield, weapon damage, armor increase. These are all good, but shields are the least effective in this game.
5. If you can manage it, so don't have to put every coin into ship building, try to make planets always grow population. So if you see a terran planet get near 100 population, upgrade it further to grow bigger.
6. Scouting. You should always know where the enemy fleet is. Just send some scouts towards the enemy territory, to monitor his actions. It requires attention not to let fog of war reach 1000s of seconds (last intel from X planet). If you see the AI has dozens of ONE ship type, say, light frigates, your best bet is to build many long range frigates as these counter LF very well. When you want to build a ship, it's info card says what it is good against, or you may just search for the weapon type tables somewhere on these forums.
7. Don't build many capital ships. In this game until level4 or 5 they are worse than 50 fleet supply of frigates. Only build new ones if you lost your original free one, or your first one reaches level6. But it's better to have only one capital ship, and your second should be the titan.
I hope I wrote everything I wanted.
I am by no means a skilled player, but I have some general advice.
When playing, your priorities are as follows:
Faction Guide:
TEC:
Advent:
Vasari:
Glossary:
Armor: Reduces incoming damage, higher armor has diminishing returns.
Capital Ships and Titans:Capital ships: As totalbiscuit put it, pretty much your heros in SC.Titans: Protoss motherships for everyone! *some assembly required*Orbital Structures:Logistical:Metal and Crystal Extractors: Minerals and gas that don't need SCVs? Brilliant!Civilian Labs: Each lab allows you access to one tier of civilian and diplomatic research; each additional lab adds one tierMilitary Labs: each lab built allows you access to one tier of military and defensive research; each additional lab adds one tierTrade Port: Plays a larger part in sins, but identical to ES.Culture Generator: ESs system influence. Friendly ships get a buff, and if it overlaps a enemy planet, it lowers its approval and income. but in sins you can use it to take over other planets! That's a really good idea, ES needs this because it would make the "Peaceful" factions so much more interesting and provide an alternative method of invasion! Orbital Refinery: Maximizes output of metha and crystal for that planet? Frigate Factory: BarracksCapital Ship factory: StarportTEC:Planetary Shield Generator: Reduces bombardment damageTactical:Defense Platform: Turret with a faction unique gizmo attached to it.
Repair Bay: Medic
Hangar Bay: Immobile protoss carrier with a faction gizmo on it.Phase-Jump Inhibitor: "You will not evade me"
Titan Foundry: Mothership core
Faction-Specific Utility Structures:Advent:Antimatter Restorer:Self explanatory.Vasari:Phase Stabilizer Node: The archetype of an ES faction: "The Vaulters are able to instantly teleport a Fleet from one system to another under their influence, if both systems have a “Portal” built on them."
Nano-Weapon Jammer: with this it more like damage per minute! Zing!Superweapons:TEC: Novalith Cannon -- Terran nukeAdvent: Deliverance Engine -- spreads culture from the target planet for two minutes and buffs friendly units in orbit around the target planet for two minutesVasari: Kostura Cannon -- stuns orbital structures and opens a Phase Stabilizer Node to the planet, allowing Vasari forces to phase jump there from any other planet with a Phase Stabilizer NodePlanetary Upgrades:Specializations: ESs planetary exploitation, except it's a trade off and you can't change it once picked.Industrial: Dust (ESs currency) an industry exploitations rolled into one.Social: Population capacity and influence as an exploitation. Best away from the front lines I'm guessing.Shield Mitigation: Counter to focus fire.
Can you stop comparing this to endless space? They are two completely different games. Also, if you want to get better at sins, DO NOT watch any youtube videos (except goafan77's, those are good besides the bad music). 99% of the people that are playing on it are absolute shit and you don't want to learn bad habits. Don't watch TB either, i've seen his sins video and he is literally tier 8. I recommend reading Goa and Grimm's guide in the Steam section to get started. Some of the older guides here in the forums, such as Raging Amish's, are still good even though they were for an older version of the game. Once you master the basics, go to the "Skilled Multiplayer Replays" in the rebellion subforum to watch some of the "pro" replays.
No, turtling against AI in this game is literally the best strategy, especially on higher difficulties.
Biggest problem noobs have is not upgrading their fleet supply quick enough. I recommend just buying the first level right off the start until you feel comfortable knowing whether to build a fleet or to develop you economy.
As a new player you want to spam light frigates for the first 10 minutes of the game. As you get better, you will learn advanced strategies like mass flak spam and LF+vette combo, which gives you a tremendous edge in multiplayer.
Since you are new, I recommend not researching any of the stat bonuses (like weapon, armor, etc) at all. Concentrate on researching new ships and tech (like LRM, repair platform, etc).
No, you never want to upgrade population if you can help it. Trade ports pay off much quicker and can distract pirate ships if you play with those on.
There is a scout timer on each unoccupied planet that tells you when you last scouted it. Generally, you never want that timer to go above 150 seconds. Just build a scout ship, jump into the enemy planet, and jump back to your planet.
A good newb ratio (when playing against AI) to remember is 300 to 1. That is, you should always have 300 non-cap ship supply to 1 cap ship.
No thats a myth. Shield mitigation in this game serves no purpose other than introducing more complexity.
Hydraling, before responding to your comment let me say this. My suggestions are for someone who is new and will be trying to play against easy or normal AI, even hard. You must admit, you don't need to play perfectly to defeat any of these.
By turtleing I meant colonizing a few planets (by no means grabbing half map) and maxing out everything there before colonizing new unowned worlds. Many newplayers do this, and this is highly inefficient.
And honestly, you don't need starbases or defenses against an easy or a normal AI, I assume Foxfire421 will be playing against these in his first games when he tries to get the feeling of the game.
Doing this will cause economical damage, but you may be right, I only add he should only research it when he reached his first fleet cap.
This is not a valid strategy, if he does this he will get banned most likely from every game online.
I thought this wasn't an intense training on how to be the next Doci. Stat researches are not that bad as many say, having a stronger capital ship is something even in a skilled game, I suggest he try it out for himself, after some time he may be able to decide whether it is worth to get it. If you have the money for it, and constantly building ships (so a longer queue means no instant advantage), why not research these btw?
Against AI it is a viable strategy to ignore trade and focus heavily on population (trust me, nowadays I usually defeat Unfair like this), this yields similar values of income after some minutes, coupled with trade ports you can imagine (speaking only about maps where you have more than 2 planets, like the medium large one). I know it would not be working online, but not upgrading the planet population when you have the money for it is an economical waste. I know it is not the highest priority, but still a useful addition to your income.
NONE. The AI is dumb as a rock, no human player plays like this. I suggest you improve to be able to defeat Unfair most of the times on a medium (medium large) map, thats the skill level required to enter the multiplayer scene without much trouble, BUT BE AWARE, strategies against AI and strategies against humans WIDELY DIFFER. Noone would sacrifice whole fleets on a starbase or on a high level titan, they would just ignore those, bypass them, etc.
Before I continue, how do you do multi quotes like that? It looks like this forum does it in a different way than the others I been on.
On the subject of flak...
I don't wish to start a flame war, but from my perspective, there is an extent to which both Turchany and Hydraling are correct.
There is some evidence suggesting that properly microed flak frigates hard-counter light frigates on a per-supply basis by exploiting the 360-degree-fire-on-the-move qualities of flak frigates in concert with a flaw in the light frigate AI (sometimes called the "confused sperm" phenomenon). That said:
Ultimately, Foxfire, it is your choice. There is some evidence to suggest that flak spam works, but it is somewhat micro-intensive and has other consequences.
As for comparing things in Sins to things in Endless Space and other real-time strategy games: if it helps Foxfire understand Sins, who cares? Over time, Foxfire will be familiar enough with Sins that he will not need comparisons; until then, more power to him!
On the subject of trade versus population upgrades...
There is an extent to which Hydraling is correct: trade centers do pay for themselves much faster than planet upgrades. Consequently, if forced to choose between one or the other, pick trade.
On the other hand, population upgrades negate the Underdevelopment Tax (which can hurt your economy if you have too many underdeveloped planets), and they are available without research -- you do not need to research trade centers to get full planet upgrades. In addition, population upgrades combine with Social Specialization -- I'm not sure of the math, but I seem to recall one denizen of the forum indicating that beefy planets with maxed out Social Specialization was a viable source of income (someone please check me on that).
On the subject of weapon and armor research, I tend to do research when the cost of doing the research adds more firepower or hit points to my fleet than the equivalent number of ships.
If, for example, I have a fleet of 10 Ravastra Skirmishers, I have about 120 DPS.
The first rank of pulse gun research provides 5% more damage to my fleet and costs 400 credits and 25 crystal; assuming a 4x conversion from crystal to credits, that's roughly 500 credits -- less than the cost of one Skirmisher if you account for the 70-metal price tag.
120 x 1.05 = 126 -- meaning that researching the first rank of pulse gun research provides half a frigate's worth of damage.
What if I have 20 Ravastra Skirmishers?
240 x 1.05 = 252 -- exactly 12 more DPS, which is roughly the equivalent of one Ravastra Skirmisher.
By the above rule, 20 Ravastra Skirmishers is a good time to research the first rank of pulse gun damage.
Just remember: if you tech-switch from Skirmishers to Kanrak Assailants, that research you just did is suddenly less useful.
To keep things really simple, let's just say put social specialization on your HW, industrial specialization on volcanics, and ignore all other planets for now...
In line with keeping things simple, building LFs and corvettes is more than good enough for most of the game...eventually, you might want to move to heavy cruisers...
Thanks Seleuciea, both for breaking it down and for keeping it simple. I don't think I've ever simplified anything in my life.
As pointed out, the way you fight the AI is very different from the way you will fight players. Against the AI you find a frontline chokepoint and fortify it with a starbase, and smash enemy fleets when they try to overrun the defenses. You then advance system by system fortifying as you go. You can kill vastly superior AI forces in this manner. To prepare for playing against players, try to beat a hard AI on a smallish (but not tiny) map without building any starbase defenses. Just build fleet and try to overrun the AI. This is to get you out of the mindset of watching the enemy constantly die against your defenses, because real players will just drive around them looking for something vulnerable.When you play against people in team games, there is generally a rush phase where everyone tries to crush the nearest enemies with swarms of light frigates and maybe corvettes. The corvettes are only there to discourage long range frigates from being built. In theory, you could have a long range frigate + flak frigate fleet that is superior, but in practice you will be dead to enemy light frigates and corvettes before you get there. If someone is safely sheltered, or far away from the frontline (or a bigger map with starsystems), they will go econ first instead of rushing, and will either flip to military with a nice head start on econ, or just feed money to their allies who are specialize in military techs. Just having one good econ player in a team game where the other team has none is usually enough to win the game unless the econ player's allies are incompetent. At some point people will move on to their mid to late game strategies, of which there are many. You will see some combination of titan, strikecraft and cruisers, bombers and flak, starbases everywhere, etc. While it is possible to win without a titan and some players play specifically to kill weakly defended titans rather than build their own, generally speaking titans are the game changers, and each race ultimately plays differently depending on what his titan can pull off.
Most important is to turn on your autorecord games option (I think it is in the save games menu), and go back and review games to figure out how people pull off things when you are not quite sure WTF they did to either get so powerful, or kill you so easily. Just keep watching how the good players go about things and incorporate their successful strategies, or at least figure out how to counter them.
Have fun!
By turtleing I meant colonizing a few planets (by no means grabbing half map) and maxing out everything there before colonizing new unowned worlds. Many newplayers do this, and this is highly inefficient.And honestly, you don't need starbases or defenses against an easy or a normal AI, I assume Foxfire421 will be playing against these in his first games when he tries to get the feeling of the game.
This is not a valid strategy, if he does this he will get banned most likely from every game online. I thought this wasn't an intense training on how to be the next Doci. Stat researches are not that bad as many say, having a stronger capital ship is something even in a skilled game, I suggest he try it out for himself, after some time he may be able to decide whether it is worth to get it. If you have the money for it, and constantly building ships (so a longer queue means no instant advantage), why not research these btw?
...
So to recap, there are no tall empires in this game so expanding as fast as you can afford to get a foothold on the map before all the empty systems are gobbled up in the rush. Because later they will be difficult to contest, and your built up systems can't make up for the lack of numbers.
Starbases are a last means of defense and should only be built as needed. Or going for something daring like building one in an enemy's gravity well.
Actually sounds like a FOO strategy which actually is a bad habit to get into.
Due to the complexity of a RTS and the high skill ceiling of a strategy game the AI is either braindead in comparison to a human player or just braindead, so yeah I'd figured most strategies for an AI would not work or have to be modified for a human player.
...As for comparing things in Sins to things in Endless Space and other real-time strategy games: if it helps Foxfire understand Sins, who cares? Over time, Foxfire will be familiar enough with Sins that he will not need comparisons; until then, more power to him!
...On the subject of weapon and armor research, I tend to do research when the cost of doing the research adds more firepower or hit points to my fleet than the equivalent number of ships.
Micro is not my strong point.
Thank you. There are things that are intrinsic to anything any game calling itself a 4X. Yes, ES has nothing on combat, but it does have the empire management skills that crossover.
So in short stat upgrades are only cost efficient if you already have a large number of ships. So focus on building/rebuilding your fleets before upgrades.
Oh that reminds me of what I was going to ask, should I get the DLC?
Definitely get forbidden worlds because it adds tremendous depth to the game. Stay far away from stellar phenomea because it actually makes the game worse and there is no way of uninstalling it.
In what fashion? Do the DLCs anomalies affect the pre-built maps?
I'm not sure about the pre-built maps, but Stellar Phenomena adds two things to the game:
By comparison, Forbidden Worlds adds new planet types:
These are fun and add a great deal of variety to the game, but each planet type (with the exception of barren worlds) has its own research requirements for colonization.
Also:
This is just MY rule of thumb, and I am not by any stretch of the imagination a good player. I would check around for more hard-and-fast rules on research before proceeding, or just go with what seems to work.
Does stellar phenomena have positive anomalies?
I'm honestly not sure; I'm fairly sure they tend to be good for one random player, bad for another random player.
Most players I know don't like games turning around because of circumstances beyond their control.
Are they on the scale of the shenanigans like the other 4X I played?
Global events (affect all players)
Hulk Discovered with Endless Tech: +50% movement speed on all ships
Single events (one player only)
Unexpected Experimental Results: Instantly researches the best technology currently available.
Legendary Wreck Analyzed: Gives quite a bit of XP to your ships.
Fanatic Rebels Suicide Bomb Navy: (that one is every bit as terrible as it sounds) All ships lose 1/4 of their max HP in damage.
EDIT: I got forbidden worlds, I was wondering if I should get stellar phenomena at half off? ($2.49)
If I were in your position, I'd snag it, just to take advantage of the deal, and then disable it by uninstalling the DLC:
I haven't tried this for myself, but in theory, you should have it but not use it if you do this.
Thanks! Hopefully in a couple days I'll get better and share a replay that isn't too cringe worthy. Is it better to learn on small maps?
Management gets significantly more complex on large maps due to how many expansion routes there are, and how big your territory can get after a while. A large territory will also mean a very large income, which you may not know what to spend it all on, as opposed to a smaller economy where you only have the money to pursue one thing (usually, building frigates). Maps with 4 or more players may find you being attacked by two different players on two different fronts, requiring you to split your resources efficiently to avoid losing planets. I found the small maps to be much simpler to play since it's more viable to just keep everything you build in one big ball of death to roam around with.
With regards to social development on your planets, I have played around with that and you'd be surprised at the results you can get. The highest population you'll see on Terrans normally is 322 with the basic max. population upgrade research, however, with higher level techs and maxed out social spec, I have seen Terran planets go well over 1000 in max population leading to 40+ credits per second from just taxes, on just 1 high allegiance world. This is also why social is good on a terran capital, because you get the 110% allegiance multiplying the taxes from its huge population.
The problem with going this route is that population growth is very slow compared to building trade ports. Trade ports reach their max income almost instantly, while a planet with 1000+ max pop. will take *forever* to actually get there. Researching all the development levels to get that much population is also silly expensive, you're looking at like 6 stages of upgrades costing 1000+ in both metal and crystal, never mind credits (they're far easier to come by). The first couple of cheap social upgrades, meanwhile, do not give enough of a population increase to be worthwhile (I noticed that the first stage of social was giving something like +10, which is negligible, but the sixth stage can give hundreds). Only in an extremely long term game would this be worth doing. If you do decide to do it, keep in mind it nukes trade income, so only do it on planets that you're filling with labs and factories (if you have a planet with a bunch of empty logistics slots and don't need more labs or factories there, it's far more efficient to build a ton of trade ports there instead of upgrading social spec).
If you play with pirates on, they will be more than happy to suicide against any static defenses you build, which are absurdly cost effective compared to fleets. Once you locate the pirate base you can easily deduce which planet they will attack (hint: it's usually the closest one) and fortify it. In my experience just 15 tac slots worth of defenses is plenty to chew up a pirate raid with no losses for quite a while into the game. However, one annoying aspect of pirates is that they will chase trade and refinery ships all over the gravity well instead of sitting still for your turrets to gun down, causing them to stay on your planet forever. If this is happening use hangar defenses with bombers, as these can chase the pirates and slowly pick them off. Fighters are quite useless against pirates as they don't deploy strikecraft. A Vasari starbase will kill them off faster, but is more expensive.
One of the most difficult aspects when I first started this game was dealing with starbases. I had games where I could roll over any fleets I encountered, but my same battle group that just crushed a huge enemy fleet with almost no casualties then suffered the reverse when trying to take on the starbase waiting behind that fleet. Don't fall into the AI's trap of doing a frontal assault against a starbase, especially not with a bunch of light frigates. Against TEC and Advent, a starbase cannot protect all sides of a planet from bombardment, so you can just use its blind spot to kill the planet and move on. A Vasari starbase is another matter, and of course you will eventually want to clean up stationary starbases too, for example if you have defeated a player and are claiming his worlds. In this case there are a few different approaches and things to keep in mind:
1. Starbases become exponentially more durable with protection upgrades. A starbase with no defense upgrades can be killed fairly quickly with a ball of frigates and thus will not be able to do much damage. A maxed starbase however, can decimate hundreds of fleet supply worth of frigates in a straight shoot-out, making it very cost inefficient to assault directly even if you have the resources. Look at the base's shield and hp points to tell how many defense upgrades it has. A starbase with around 2000 shields and 3000 hp has no defense upgrades and will be not much, if any, more threatening than a lone enemy capital ship. A starbase with 10000+ hp is a completely different animal and should be approached more akin to a titan.
2. The most effective unit to attack a starbase is bombers. They do a lot of damage and can't be hit, while your carriers sit safely on the other side of the grav well. If there are no intervening factors a few carriers can just sit and whittle a starbase down. However, if there are a bunch of fighters around (from enemy hangars, fleets, or even the starbase itself if it is high level), you may want to use other options.
3. TEC and Advent have dedicated anti-structure cruisers which are very strong against starbases and can attack from outside their weapons range, and unlike bombers they do not mind mass fighters being present in the grav well. However, also unlike bombers, they are useless in fleet v. fleet combat. Vasari has the option to build their own starbase and then move it in, but this is very expensive for a unit that cannot accompany you over to the next grav well. I believe the Kostura Cannon can disable starbases, which is a more practical option but only in a very long term game. In a very long game with tier 8 techs, the Vasari Rebels can also build a maxed out starbase and just jump it around with their fleet (if you are deep enough into a match to do this you pretty much auto-win, as the AI is too dumb to not slug it out against your phase jumping death star).
4. Well supported or high level titans and/or groups of capital ships can "solo" starbases, this is safer than committing a mass of frigates, since starbases can attack many targets at once (at least 8, I believe), it is very hard to micro back your frigates that are about to die. However, with a few very high durability units, you have much more time to retreat ships that are getting low before they die. By "well supported" here I mean healing/repair cruisers accompanying your big guns.
As for Stellar Phenomena, I enjoy the DLC, the weird gravity wells can make for some interesting engagements. Someone already mentioned my favorite, the Ice Field, which will make a lone capital ship easily kill dozens of light frigates with its 50% propagation. Some of these just turn matchups completely on their head, for example carriers are very overpowered in an ice field, but there is another one that prevents you from launching any strikecraft, so your carrier fleet is useless there. One of them disables all abilities, which amusingly has the consequence of being the only gravity well in which no starbases can be built (because deploy starbase is considered an ability). One game I had this particular gravity well as the only possible link in what would have otherwise been a very long trade chain.
A minor quibble, WJC -- the Kostura Cannon does NOT disable starbases. They are apparently a separate class of orbital structure and so are unaffected by the Kostura Cannon.
On the subject of bombers as an anti-starbase unit...
The metagame used to be focused extensively on bombers, but with the inclusion of corvettes, the meta has shifted away from bomber spam, primarily because fighters and flak are useful for softening up corvettes and therefore tend to be present on the field by the time bombers come out. As a result, there is a bit of a paper-rock-scissors thing going on between light frigates, long-range frigates, and corvettes, but this also means that bombers are less common.
I mention this because it influences the manner in which you will take out starbases. Bombers, as WJC indicated, can work, but given the shift in metagame to favor fighters and flak as a response to corvettes, going bombers might be unwise.
As WJC indicated, Advent and TEC have anti-structure cruisers; the Vasari don't have them. Instead, they have starbases.
Vasari starbases, as you know, can move, so you can construct them out of range of the enemy starbase, upgrade them, and then move them into range when you're good and ready (Vasari Rebels don't even have to do this -- with maxed out civilian and military research, they can construct a starbase behind friendly lines and then jump the entire thing into an enemy gravity well by means of the Kostura Cannon.
In addition: the first weapon upgrade you can purchase for the Vasari starbase unlocks a disintegrator weapon that is close-range but very good against structures.
As an alternative, I have also found that Vasari heavy cruisers are surprisingly effective in an anti-starbase role due to their favorable damage multiplier against structures and their durability.
Vasari heavy cruisers are durable because of Reintegration, an ability common to both Vasari light frigates and heavy cruisers that shuts down the ship and rapidly regenerates its hull. Though using this ability takes a ship out of the fight, individual cruisers that are under fire are able to spend longer periods of time soaking damage (which increases their shield mitigation, which allows them to spend even longer under fire). To add to the fun, you can generally throw in a few Jarun Overseers to heal the cruisers even further. I've found that with enough heavy cruisers, you can generally slug it out with a well-upgraded starbase and win.
That said, there is one situation in which sending heavy cruisers (or any ships, for that matter) against a starbase is very unwise, and that is against the TEC.
TEC starbases can be upgraded to explode in a wide radius for massive damage. Anything with range will be devastated.
Consequently, you should approach TEC starbases with extreme caution and, if possible, pick them off at a distance.
Interesting, I've never actually used the Kostura myself so I didn't know that.
I should note that everything I said is in regards to single-player, which IMO is far more accessible as the game's MP community is tiny and the MP service will randomly crash your game alot. In multi-player, some of it may still apply, but in general that's a wholly separate game.
As a result I should note that I am pretty sure the AI will never use the TEC Safety Override Protocol (the ability that self-destructs their starbase), so you don't have to fear that in SP. I have never seen it used by the AI in dozens of games.
Thanks for all the info! But yeah I will be playing mostly SP in the mean time.
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