Hey all,I have been away for a fairly long time. I was a big player when Rebellion was in development but fell away with a few others when it was announced the game would require Steam. I am thinking of coming back but one of the reasons I fell away was because the game felt quite unbalanced and the Titans were looking to worsen that problem.
So here is my question. Has it improved? Have some of the balance issues that seemed to perpetually plague the game been solved? Have the Titans integrated well or have they made everything more lopsided? Thanks all, I was always very happy with the Sins community and it is nice to be on the boards once more.
Seems balanced to me. Many pro players play as random, certain factions are no longer banned.
Vasari Rebels titan is a tad weaker than the rest but they make up for it with jumping starbases...
The balance is much, much better than it was in the beta/release, no question about it. Whether it is more or less balanced than the end of Diplomacy I suppose is up to debate, especially since a lot of Rebellion players like me haven't played Diplomacy since Rebellion came out and thus don't remember particularly well.
Balance is pretty good...while some techs, ships, upgrades, etc. are not particularly useful, each faction has a pretty equal shot at winning in most situations...
Compared to the end of diplomacy, I think balance is slightly better...titans, while historically the biggest problem for Rebellion's balance, were eventually balanced and their existence has changed late game fleet composition significantly...flak are no longer viable ships late game, meaning that fighter spam is quite viable (and actually common since it counters corvettes) and thus bomber spam is not as powerful...this has narrowed the gap between Vasari and advent late game fleets since the phase missiles of Vasari don't see as much action...along those lines, the additions to the TEC in Rebellion have given them a much more competitive late game...
All in all, I would say the faction balance is currently the best it has ever been...the only issues with balance at this point is simply some elements of the game being too useless or too "must have to win"....
We've been through this... stop trolling.
Wow... sounds great. Bomber spam was the biggie back when I was around. 90+ bomber squads meant GG, especially against the AI. Great to hear that bombers, and the Titans, are now in better places. Might have to try this out again
I'm can't wait to hear how 150 fleet supply of flak (realistically 250 since you need at least one fleet upgrade to get a titan so why not have a maxed out 1 fleet upgrade for flak) can devastate a VR titan.
Let's get them replays of flak taking on high level titans late game...we'll put that right next to Grimm fighting Doci in the library...
Diplomacy in its final patch was the most balanced version of Sins. IMHO, it was the pinnacle of Sins for competitive play.
I can't wait to hear you quote me where I say that flak can counter caps/titans/HCs.
The above quote implies you believe flak are viable late game, which is exactly when
If it was the 'pinnacle' as you say, then why does noone ever play it anymore?
Even when the rebellion server is down (like right now) noone goes there...
Did the final diplo patch fix OP carrier caps ? Or phase missiles? Bomber spam?
Deleted -- duplicate post.
It wasn't perfect.
I would argue what we have now in rebellion is more balanced than diplo ever was...
What is imba in rebellion right now?
In diplomacy phasemissiles were op?
In diplomacy carrier capital ships were op?
In diplomacy light frigates were up?
What about the tec supply pact? Repulse? Bomber spam?
There are 2 types of balance: balance between factions and balance between elements.
Carrier caps can be OP in that they are far better than the other 4 (or 5) capital ships, and thus one could argue that is an imbalance. However, it is possible that the factions are balanced because each has equal access to an OP carrier cap.
I would argue that faction balance is better in rebellion than it is in diplomacy...titans have radically changed late game fleet compositions by making frigates mostly obsolete...without flak, fighters are now very viable and you are almost forced to have several capital ships late game (if not outright forced to spam them)...the implementation of corvettes has also had its impact...
In light of these changes, TEC have a much more viable late game....Kols and Dunovs have more important roles and shine at this stage...TEC also aren't penalized as much for having the weakest SC since they have the best corvettes...the Ragnarov puts the TR in a better position to handle Advent fleets with repulsion while the TL have superior defenses than the Advent, making the TEC more competitive against late game Advent fleets...
The Advent vs. Vasari matchup is also better late game...since bomber spam is no longer as common or as viable, phase missiles are not as problematic...this has made for a more even matchup between these two factions without distorting the TEC vs. Vasari matchup...
Finally, the Advent weakness early game is completely gone since you are not forced to rush LRFs...while in some close combat situations Advent have a distinct advantage over the other factions, this pales in comparison to the power of Sova rushing in diplomacy or the annihilation of Advent without access to LRFs...
Now, as far as balance between elements, that is debatable...in diplomacy, it was all about carrier caps and LRF spam...late game, your fleet was either HCs with flak/fighters or LRFs with flak/bombers...compare this to rebellion, where frontliners are leading with a variety of different cap choices...it may be that progs, eggs, and marzas dominate, but you still see a fair amount of akkans, discordias, radiances, rankulases, halycons, and dunovs...your fleet composition also has more variety, with both LF and LRF spam being viable for TEC and Advent...the relation between all 4 early game ships has made for a very exciting and interesting early game...late game, you have options between fighters, corvettes, and bombers...you also can brute force certain titans and starbases with HCs, and there is greater variety in choices for capital ships...
While some of the newly added elements from rebellion may not all be useful, there were useless things in diplomacy and I'd say as a percentage of total assets, you will find that rebellion has as many useless and "must-have-to-win" things as diplomacy....
Good post sel, i was too lazy to delv too deep myself.
What we have now is better balance between the elements and the factions.
I would like some way to counter late game tec and advent starbases however.
The days of embargo rushing are long over... TEC now leads marza/akkan 99.9% of the time. As for advent, I see marauder or revelation more than halcyon these days... Skirantra is always useful due to repair cloud...
Not even going to bother responding to this flame bait...
Christ, you can't even stay consistent with your trolling. Just last month you were arguing Ragnarov was one of the worst titans, now you're saying it helps TEC trump advent? I recall you stating even LFs (!!!) could counter it. Also, you do know that Ragnarov is the worst titan to face guardians with, right? All of its abilities require it to face its target directly, something you can't do when its stuck against repulsion...
Wrong, TEC bombers are superior to advent's. I believe someone did a test on this.
This is just a massive fail. Vasari bombers haven't been nerfed in forever, and you were crying about them being OP in countless balance threads a couple months back. All of a sudden you think PMs are no longer common, viable, or problematic? All of a sudden late game advent vs vasari is even? Man, Sel you really are losing your trolling touch...
Wrong. Advent are the worst against Vasari out of the three races early game due to weakness in killing SBs.
Lol wut? Are we even playing the same game? 99% of all frontliners lead prog/egg/marza/akkan... the 1% include Sleeper trolling with marauder and players leading revelation when there's alot of TEC... As for discordias and rankulases, I have never seen leads with them in a non-troll game... In addition, the glory days of the halycon are long gone, people don't even build them late game anymore.
Do you even play online?
Nope, ever since I posted my flak thread all I've been seeing are mass flak rushes. Since they counter all early game ships (vette, LF, LRF), people are forced to build SB or tech up to HCs. The old mass LF/LRF is no longer viable due to the new metagame.
Lmao? You can't even stay consistent in one bloody post... in the above paragraph you said bombers are no longer viable... suddenly there is this great dynamic between fighters, vettes and bombers? And you can't brute force SB with heavy cruisers, not unless you want to lose your fleet due to red button or disorientation...
/thread
Why people in this forum take Seleuceia seriously, I have no idea. To all the newcomers, he's our chief troll in this community, spreading countless misleading statements about Rebellion. He actually believes all the crackpot nonsense and tinfoil that he writes, which makes him what I like to call "a dumb person's idea of what a smart person sounds like."
Well I've found three great quotes questioning Sel's online presence so he must not play online, what a troll (the italics means sarcasm just incase you missed that memo)
Said the man who brought us such great threads as "Absolute proof flak is overpowered"
Anyways, I will say that against the AI you can win with just about anything on Unfair or easier (note on Unfair you'll need to be somewhat carefuly but you can still win with an Antorak start or not building Drones as the Advent).
I was tagging along a statement made by uncrustable in regards to carrier caps and diplomacy...it was simply an example used to demonstrate a point...
You are welcome to think whatever you like, but my statement was simply an observation of reality, not a jab at you and your unique playing style...regardless of what strategies you personally advocate, flak are NOT used in large quantities by skilled players in the late game...fighter spam is MUCH more common in rebellion than it was in diplomacy, and this is in large part because flak always made fighters pointless in diplomacy fleets...
I still think it is one of the worst titans...
I also specifically acknowledged in that very thread the single greatest advantage of the ragnarov, which is its range...this gives it a unique advantage when facing repulsion that no other faction has...it is by no means a perfect counter for the very reason you mentioned, but your enemy is not always repulsing your ragnarov from behind and thus you sometimes are facing your target while being repulsed...certainly the ragnarov has a better chance of doing something against repulsion than all the titans other than the Vorastra (which really can only get out of repulsion, not attack the protected fleet)...
As for LFs being effective or ineffective against the Ragnarov, that really has no bearing on its effectiveness against repulsion...
I believe you are referring to the tests done by Aresiv...in his tests, he compared bombers by seeing which fleet of SC would destroy the other light carriers first...as discussed in that very thread, this was seen as a poor method of comparing bombers...
The test really ended up being about which carriers had the most HP per fleet supply since a side "lost" once all of its carriers were destroyed by the enemy bombers...you rarely use bombers to focus fire on carriers, instead using them to focus fire on caps, titans, SBs, HCs, or other key targets...thus, the test really did not apply to typical scenarios encountered in-game...obviously, Advent are at a huge disadvantage in this setup since the aeria has noticeably less HP per fleet supply than lasuraks or percherons...
If you want to discuss which faction has the better carrier, that's a different discussion, but as far as which faction has the better bomber, Advent bombers do more DPS per squadron than TEC do, and thus are superior in most cases...the only noteworthy advantage TEC bombers have over Advent is when it comes to HP per individual ship...this gives TEC a slight advantage when facing flak burst or TK push, though that only applies to certain late game scenarios...90% of the time, I'd rather have the Advent bombers...
Quoted from the v1.80 change log (https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/449882/page/2/#3418314):
But that's not the main point...the important part is that bombers in general, not just Vasari, are less viable because fighters are more viable...this is specifically because all frigates including flak get quickly crushed by titans mid and late game...without flak to counter fighters, there is really nothing to counter them other than more fighters...thus, bomber spam is not nearly as common...
Leading up to that change log, I was one among many that pushed for nerfing the base damage of bombers...we believed (and I still do) that such a change was all that was needed since bombers already were not the end-all be-all of late game fleets...there was no need to nerf PMs since fighter spam was on the rise and kanraks were not a big player in rebellion games...
I've actually had this discussion with other skilled players about the Vasari late game, and the end conclusion is that Advent and TEC have AoEs that help deal with corvettes while Vasari do not...this gives Vasari a unique handicap in the late game that is only frustrated more with the necessity to use less bombers (their best item) and more fighters...Advent can do very well against Vasari late game, certainly much better in rebellion than they could in diplomacy...
I have yet to see a single player do flak spam in the manner that you suggest...not once...I've even asked lobbies if anyone was willing to try it, no takers...ever...
I've held off quar on the frontline twice, once as TEC and once as Advent...despite him being a superior player, I was able to hold him off for quite a while simply by using LF spam...I actually faired better as Advent because of their earlier access to bombers, but before that stage I found both factions equally capable at doing the job...this was against a superior player who is regarded as one of the best Vasari players of all time...Advent can counter Vasari, they can do it, and they do it well...in fact, most Vasari players I talk to after games complain when they started close to Advent because of how brutal the Advent LF spam is....
It took a titan for Quar to finally make headway against me, and by that point the game was almost over...
Clearly we don't play the same game, because in your game everyone is spamming flak...
For posterity, I will quote myself:
[quote who="Seleuceia" reply="18" id="3449858"]since bomber spam is no longer as common or as viable, phase missiles are not as problematic...
I did NOT say bombers aren't viable...I said bomber spam is not as viable...spam, as in building only that ship, as opposed to having 2 or 3 different ships....
I stand by my statement...bomber SPAM is not as viable in rebellion, and that is NOT the same as saying bombers are obsolete or should never be built...the late game has extra diversity compared to diplomacy...in diplomacy, it was almost always bomber spam, while in rebellion it is some combination of fighters, bombers, and corvettes...even if the builds are fighter heavy, the situation certainly sees more diversity than in diplomacy which was almost exclusively bomber spam...
And the thread devolves into a troll thread. Thx Sinkillr.
Sinkillr is an epic troll.
Sel actually does play online, and is pretty damn good
Sinkillr do you ever play online?
If so what smurf name are you hiding under these days ?
Sel why even respond to such a troll ?
You know that is what a troll wants...
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