Currently, picking Commander at level 2 just gives the hero the ability to produce -15% unrest by being stationed in a city. This doesn't help the Commanders who follow the combat line at all, making Commander the most unappetizing trait in the early game. Buff Commander to give both the -15 unrest AND +1 army initiative/some other bonus so that it becomes a bit more flexible and isn't 100% useless for combat Commanders.
In general, the Commander trait tree needs work. It's also a problem that there is no good way to gain experience for Commanders who do exactly what they're supposed to be doing; commanding/administrating a city. The Commander trait itself should additionally provide a hefty experience bonus when stationed in a city so that running a pure administrative hero who never fights becomes a real option. This could serve as either an alternative or an addition to the above proposal. In addition to this, Administrator 1-3 should each provide an escalating XP bonus for Commanders stationed in a city (and please, StarDock, it needs to be a lot more than the +1 XP/season you currently have the Adventurer's Guild at; this is a ridiculously low amount of XP).
I'll also point out again that the 'Innovation' trait from the Loremaster line isn't strong enough: While an instant +100 research is strong (though I'm not sure if it's bugged, I seem to get a lot less than 100 research when unlocking it - it seems to just finish the currently researching tech?), Loremaster III provides +3 research/season, meaning it overtakes Innovation in just 34 turns. In comparison, the Merchant series has +5 gildar vs 500 instant gildar for a 100 season ratio.
Here are some suggested values:
Commander base trait
Unlocks traits that improve economy
-15% to Unrest in the city this unit is in
+1 to the army's Initivative
+ 3 XP/season when stationed in a city
Administrator I
-10% to Unrest in the city this unit is in
+2 XP/season when stationed in a city
Administrator II
+3 XP/season when stationed in a city
Administrator III
-5% Unrest in all cities
+50% XP/season when stationed in a city
Adventurer's Guild
Stationed champions gain 4 XP/season
+1 Fame/season
Innovation
150 research
Those XP bonuses seem a bit much.
I'd say: 1 (base)/1/2/3 XP/season and no Initiative bonus.
Adventurer's Guild 2xp/season.
Commanders are by far the strongest sovereigns, especially if you take
- the race Tarth because their double attack is made with -15 % hit chance or
- the race Trogs because the juggernauts can attack several times until their goal avoids an attack and the juggernauts lose -15 % hit chance with each attack.
For both races the Commander ensures that they will always hit!
2nd reason: The bonus to initiative ist awesome! Attacking first (and more often) is the key to win a fight. So I can normally attack twice against high armor troops before they can do anything.
If you did that we'd be back to the status quo where heroes in cities never level. A small amount of XP each turn is nothing compared to what a combat hero racks up which could be hundreds of XP every few turns.
The initiative bonus (or an attack bonus, like in the excellent Patchwork mod) is required so that the Commander trait isn't 100% useless for a Commander who will never be stationed in a city (combat Commander) like it is now, as I explained.
Adventurer's Guild providing a reasonable bonus is still a very high price to pay for having one's hero sit in the city doing nothing. 2 XP - and especially the current 1 XP - is too low.
I disagree. Yes, the Commander who wants to be a good combat commander gets no immediate path from the path trait alone. But you'll need to level him to be good anyway (goes for all heroes), so I don't see it as such a big issue.
Personally, a level 5 commander is so much more useful to me than a lvl5 anything else. By level 5 he can have road building, and administrator I, and either admin II or merchant I, whichever I need more.
A lvl 5 commander like the one above never needs another level - i can swing him around to the neediest city at a time, and focus on leveling my combat heroes.
Not that I ignore the commander as a combat choice, too, it's just a different level up investment. He needs to get to at least tactician I and have the Command ability - but then he is a great addition to an army.
So to sum up my point, I find a lot of value in the Commander as-is.
A big design choice in LH is keeping heroes from getting too powerful. And I think the devs are on to something - high level heroes can just mop up the AI. So while I would like to see more passive xp chances, giving anything more than 2 xp per season would massively benefit a player that spams henchmen or gathers a lot of champions.
Do you mod? Might want to test it out and observe.
I like Commanders. In fact, one of the cool things about this game is some people will say a certain type of champion/sovereign is a poor choice, and you'll find others who disagree. So, I'm not saying you are wrong; for you, Commander probably is a poor choice. However, for some of us it's an excellent choice.
When you get a champion Commander (as opposed to your soveregin), it's an interesting game decision how much effort to you put into leveling him. I'll put him in my main stack with my sovereign for a few levels, but how high? If I could level him my camping him in a city, it would eliminate an interesting strategic decision. Come to think of it, I almost always make my first (level 1) champion a Commander, so how bad can they be?
I pretty much always make my sovereign a warrior and the first hero a commander, beelining straight to the xp bonuses. Between the bonuses to accuracy (yay cave bears!) and xp I can make my mid- and late-game heroes useful quickly.
If you pump out commander henchmen, keep them all in the same army with your sovereign, and get them to the xp bonuses as soon as possible, you can get them all past level 30 fast (and bring other henchmen/champions of mage or warrior path along with them).
The Commander is the most 'unappetising' trait in the early game? But it gets lolpowerful later?
Gee, it almost sounds like it's balanced to be a tree that requires long term planning and work to realise its over the top potential to make your army a horde of superspeed aimbots who level up relentlessly, or to create the ability to instantly turn a city into a powerhouse of production and joy.
Commanders are why I can pick up a Sledge and still end up outrunning an enemy I'm guaranteed to hit every....single....time.
Commander weak? certainly not, it is actually one of the best class if you already play the game hundred times.
If you are initiative focused, constant spam battlecry is even better than other class except mage that spam blizzard, a fireball mage is losing this contest easily against commander with battlecry. the gap is even further if the commander is leading a ranged heavy units (especially mage units, i say units, not champion).
If you have henchmen, due to henchmen champion doesn't split exp, you can have 3 henchmen commanders leading entire army full of mages in no time, all kind of enemy army will never act and will be slaughtered very fast due to battle cry spam.
In late game, if you have strong army technology, commander easily tops out other class, yes, even against mage with blizzard.
Its capability to make road is also a very strong bonus, both for defensive or offensive purpose.
Its exp bonus as noted by others above, is insane bonus, especially if your commander is a henchmen, because he won't drain exp, meaning no exp split.
However if you use commander for administrative purpose (meaning you take traits that boost research/gildar/unrest reduction), you certainly use commander in a wrong way. But i agree if a rework is needed for this administrative trait, especially the gildar and research one.
I've found that a Commander class hero giving "accuracy" and "initiative" bonuses to an army coupled with a Defender class hero giving "defense" and "spell resist" bonuses to an army is very effective. When not fighting, the Commander can be assisting around towns that need to....rest. I could be wrong, but my games don't consist of battles every single turn.
Two commander henchmen with maxed out "Tactics" traits will make any stack much deadlier.
I've never tried the henchmen. Seems like a popular unit.... almost everybody in the forum talks about henchmen.
Henchmen are great: build your own champions. The only problem is that they are REALLY good if you rely on them as a strategy, and it can trivialize the game. For instance, building 3-4 commander henchmen and giving them the trainer traits makes leveling up TOO easy.
Sions are just like henchmen, except they don't count as champions: when they die, they're dead, but henchmen just get an injury.
I've made two mods that create new faction traits allowing non-Altar or men factions to get their own brand of henchmen. Let me know if you're interested, I can link you.
Please do. I play Resoln custom tailored. Appreciated!
I would tend to agree with this. When you conquor a City, stationing a commander there for a few seasons can be just what you need to get some good construction off the ground, and their road building ability is very useful. In an army, they give xp bumps to your whole army and a big boost to accuracy.
Also agree with others that the traits that give small bumps to research/gilder are the ones that need reworking, since they can be overshadowed by a good conclave/town. Those traits may be marginally useful early on, but later in teh game, they will be a drop in the bucket.
I also find that most other classes (except mages) get outgunned by their own troops later in the game making them seem somewhat superfluous.
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