I wonder about diplomacy. I really am hoping they take that to the next level. It has me thinking about defensive pacts, and friendship, and un-claimed territory.
Personally i always thought the colony expansion process should be slower. On smaller maps especially but even larger maps can get filled up rather fast, really before any decent fleets are built.
It has me wondering if perhaps diplomacy can be part of the answer to slow this down. My thinking is, marking planets as territory, or with the idea to colonize later. take for example a smaller planet in your systems, that you already own planets. Having to make a choice do i colonize, or not. How the other AI's view those actions. Basically deepening the idea of building in opposed territory, but even things just outside could be considered owned.
But what about making pact's with neighbors, or minor races. I would love to beable to say things like i am protecting this race, or planet, or area.. and coming in could mean war. A rating of power, and willingness to keep up your side of things would be part of the play. But right now, i find it hard to give any warning to other races about there actions.
I like the large maps and find the constraints to the colonization rush too limiting. I like building my empire as fast as I can, but the game makes it difficult. Especially since the computer races also try to build up their empires as quickly as they can. Each colony has a monetary cost that has to be offset by taxes from colony's population, and a new colony depends on support from the empire's coffers until that crossover point is reached. Not to mention how much building buildings moves that crossover point. Right now, I think GC2 has it at a good balance.
I can under stand that, but it just feels like even the aggressive races, do not take much advantage of a next door neighbor that has left themselves wide open for invasion early.. it just seems like powering to 5-10 planets, almost is always better, because the chances of being invaded in the first 52/104 weeks seems remote at best..
Maybe i just have not played enough GCII.. But it feels like as a very aggressive neighbor, why would i not at least make some ground invasion forces when i see 3-4 planet 2 sectors away with zero troops?
This is one of my hopes for GC3, that diplomacy takes a step forward in terms of depth and mechanics. Diplomacy in these Civ type games is always so basic and seems to be thrown in just because you need some way to communicate with the other Civs, but it seems so little effort is given to actually making Diplomacy an interesting, fun, strategic aspect of the gameplay.Being able to barter over anomalies, asteroid belts and planets would be a great feature. Offering promises of "spoils of war" would be a great addition to rally allies to your cause. Forming temporary coalitions as opposed to permanent alliances would be a great addition as well. Perhaps a coalition is formed just to defeat a particular race and then after that is accomplished the individual member races of the coalition go on their separate ways.However, what I would really love to see is that communication matters in diplomacy. I'd love to see a "mini-game" made out of diplomacy. Perhaps a screen where you are presented with a few different options in terms of how you communicate. You could select different phrases, then select a type of demeanor. This would mean that you really have to be careful about how you communicate with the various races. Perhaps some races respect a more authoritative tone, while others may want you to show more subserviance. The whole Yes/No/Request aspect of diplomacy is frankly really boring. I think by adding more elements to Diplomacy you can then actually utilize your level of diplomacy research in the game. If you know more about about communication and diplomacy and even through spying know more about a particular race, new options for communication open up for you as you progress through the Diplomacy/Communications tech tree. In the beginning you're left to kind of guess as to how to communicate with the races, how will you phrase your request or your statement and what demeanor will you use? Then as you research Diplomacy and learn more about the species from spying the Diplomacy "mini-game" opens up more options for communicating, gives you more subtle/detailed options for communicating and gives you something like a "chance of success" type read out. Your advisor could say something like "The Drengin are more likely to respond to a humbled request sir."As you become more powerful as a economy, as a military and as a diplomatic body, new options for communicating open up and the way in which the various races respond to you could change. Perhaps early in the game, when you are weak the Drengin will respond favorably to a humbled approach, but as you gain power and perhaps progress beyond them, then then respond more favorably to a stern approach.These are just quick ideas off the top of my head, but I think that Diplomacy can be changed/improved to be a legitimate, strategic and enjoyable game mechanic and not just something thrown in to list as a feature on the back of the retail box.
I too wish for more Chatty AIs and more diplomacy depth and options. This would really liven up the game and boost immersion. Imo
It would certainly be nice to have a greater range of diplomatic options, including things like real trade embargoes, LIMITED time (and variable scope) economic and research treaties, and the aforementioned "chatter" communicating intentions.
About the only thing I can think of off the time of my head, however, which will slow down the immediate colonization rush is to make colonization radically more expensive. The fact is, under GC2, after about the initial 25 turns (gaining Ion drive and some basic economics), I could throw out a colony ship from my homeworld about every 5 turns, 3 if I was lucky, and still keep my budget under control. Colonization needs to be much more expensive, and it should take MUCH longer for a colony to be able to become productive.
Couple of ideas here:
1 - More respect given to the super powers, you got 2 measly planets, I have 90 and your too busy to talk to me????
2 - I make you an offer you can't refuse and you demand some unreal amount. Please give me some options other than wiping you out to pee on your cornflakes.
3 - you declare war on someone and we are allies, I should be able to support your cause by negotiating and sending you war supplies you need not just declaring war too. Also allow the other parties to try and negotiate with me to not support you. Depending on how it turns out you could piss off any or all of the other parties.
radical. Very radical.
i would absolutely love a diplomacy option where you can warn the in very concrete ways.(and which the ai could use too ofc)
Something like: if you do X to Y in Z turns, i will do this or that.
examples:
If you colonize planets in my influence, i will declare war.
If you colonize planet betelgeuse 1 within the next 5 turns, i will badmouth you to the other leaders.
If you declare war on x, i will attack all your ships in x's influence (but ideally not declare war on you directly, i wanna peacekeep without giving powerfull ships to another faction.)
if you wont declare war on me for 20 turns, i will give you this or that research in 10 turns.
I will not declare war on you right now, if you give me this research and some money. (as in, if the recipient doesn't accept the trade, you automatically declare war or w/e you put up as consequence. in galciv 2 it ws always "give me money or a planet or we might declare war on you in some indeterminate time" instead of "give me money or i will attack you right now"
and ideally things like:
If you research this technology, i will declare war. (this could be coupled with espionage/counter espionage/ a bluffing element)
If you get 10 planets, i will declare war.
If your fleet gets this strong, i will declare war.
If you enter this or that space (or get within x tiles of my ships or something), i will attack you in that specific area but not declare war. (i.e. some way to set up a blockade.) (or maybe something silimar to cold war in endless space)
i would also love it if the ai took your (known) ability to produce ships and your available techs into account when deciding on war, instead of just your current fleet strenght. The position of your fleets could also be a deciding factor. This could add another diplomacy element to open borders/sharing certain knowledge: you could try to keep your fleet/production capabilities hidden tru counter espionage, baiting someone to attack you while they underestimate your strenght. or you could boast of your capabilities as a deterrent.
yes agree this pissed me off no end in gc2
"you dont have any military ships you're physically weak if you dont give us credits were going to declare war on you"
umm yeah about that just gonna quick build some fleets on my planets and... oh look my military strength just jumped to triple yours now how about handing over those credits
Agreed. I would like to see more diplomatic options with the AI that have conditional or long-term effects.
I think this one is interesting, you basically declare a protectorate on another civ. Basically a lesser state of war, whereas I will only attack things in my neighbors influence that is at war with my neighbor.
I like the concept.
Sanctions!
As far as colony expansion goes, i would say maybe a chance modifier.
eg. if colony is 5 parsecs away a 90% chance and 50 a 9% percent. Meaning you would have a better chance of colonizing home territories. I would also add something like if colonization force is greater than 5000 than 100% or something like that. Maybe have modifiers linked to relations too. Maybe cultural influence by treaties or friendship could effect as well.
as to warning the ai, i would love to be able to scare away scout ships. Perhaps something like civ 3 remove your ships from our territory or face diplomatic consequences.
I think that if your trying to pay someone to go to war with another race, their allies should be included in the talks, with possible negative/positive consequence same with peace treaties. I never found it easy to make peace in GC2, it was always pretty much til the death.
Perhaps if you sold tech to a race, you would be given a certain leeway in future negotiations. It would be great if you could lobby for colonization of a world in someones territory.
Something like this could work too, but what you say sounds to much like a mutual defence treaty for my liking. A mutual defence treaty is a agreement between you and the defender. What i suggest doesn't need to involve the defender, just you and the (potential) agressor.
anyways, multiple states/kinds of war instead of just peace and total war sounds like a great idea. and i think conditional diplomatic options is a good way to describe my other ideas. Sanctions also sounds like a good appropriate name, but that sounds too much like united planets which no doubt will have some sort of sanction system too.
I think we are both on the same page. It just comes down to: "If you attack my friend, i will DEFEND my friend. I will not attack the aggressor's territory".
A lesser state of war effectively.
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