Galciv2 was quite micro intensive. Particulary, the management of colonies (dozens of planets and every planet had many tiles to build something on and to upgrade) and the economy (adjusting sliders every turn...). I hope this will be altered in 3.
Do you agree?
Honestly? Not a lot. Making sure the micro isn't tedious is good, but I like building things on planets. Considering Galciv 2 had what was essentially totally micro free combat, having it somewhere else didn't bother me.
I mean I wouldn't mind if planetary management is a bit faster, but I'd rather still have it than not have it.
I don't agree, either.
The whole reason why I became involved in 4X games, particularly at such a young age way back when, was the ability to control every aspect (as much as possible) of my empire. To have it grow the way I want, responding to threats and circumstances the way I think it should.
I don't know of many, or any 4X games that successfully dumbed themselves down for the sake of simplification. MOO3 (as usual) being an excellent example. You just don't know if what's going under the hood is what's actually going on under the hood.
I'd like some more micro actually. Never complexity for complexity's sake, but the micro is a big part of what I like in a 4xgame.
I can find simplified games or shoot-em-up's without much effort - there are lots of them out there.
GalCiv is a TBS, its designed to be a thinking game, with battles along the way. It should stay that way - simplified shoot-em-up's are not hard to find, and I for one can live without them.
If anything GalCiv has much scope for more "stuff" (define "stuff" according to personal preference) as PCs become more powerful, and the latest jump to 64 bit. In that regard its following in its illustrious predecessor's footsteps - Fireaxis Civilization Series.
The Core factor however, is GalCiv was designed from the start as a thinking game, a strategy game. In many ways the first two set the scene, rather like the infamous Civilisation Series I & II - with the latter, the big breakthrough was Civ III because the ground work had been laid, and developers were given their head. What followed was the famous Civ IV, arguably one of the best strategy games there has ever been.
As long as Brad stays true to his instincts, and I believe he will, GalCiv 4 and on will follow in Fireaxis footsteps, and I believe - in the long run - will be as big if not bigger than Fireaxis Civilization series.
Against that backdrop the euphemistic Pacman with a six-gun doesn't appeal
Less micro != FPS, you know. Are you implying that Governors in GalCiv II make it a non thinking game? I have never used them, I love to control all the stuff going on in my little empire/republic/federation. But surely some people find them a nice addition without "dumbing down" the game.
I'm against unnecesary streamlining, unnecesary complexity and a game that plays itself (er... autobattles are ok).
They also said adding micro (Tactical combat) would turn the the game into a shoot them up. I think it's just what he calls ideas he doesn't like.
I concur with most of the above posters in opposing the suggestion by the original poster -- I want micromanagement to stay. However, I do hope there are better macromanagement tools to assist ... I like epic campaigns on the largest maps, but tools to /help/ reduce management tedium (without eliminating micromanagement) would be nice.
That's the reason to buy a TBS game. For the mircro management. At least for me anyways.
I'll have to throw my hat into the keep the micromanagement pool. I personally want to see some refinements geared at the late game, when you have in excess of 25 colonies, the management gets tedious, particularly if you found new colonies or conquer a new planet and you want to get it up to modern tech levels, or more so during war time and you need to continuously purchase ships or structures.
id like to be able to control build queue and purchases from the colony list screen rather than have to cycle through each planet - ie have a buy button beside the current project. Sure most of the time you won't have the funds to buy multiple projects in a turn but I frequently find myself with sufficient cash reserves in the later game that in war time I'm buying whole fleets each turn and being able to do that from one screen would be great!
Having governors for planetary improvements would be nice.
Agreed that`s why I`m rooting for this game so much
Player-made governors or even planetary type pre-made directions.
I am pro micro, but anti tedium. (I wonder if the OP wasn't talking about the micro in general, but the times when the micro becomes tedious.) Building/upgrading planets in late game can get tedious. Each turn you have to cycle through your planets rush buying everything. Civ 5 managed to cut down on this tedoum, by letting you rush buying all your upgrades in one turn rather then having to do one a turn over half a dozen turns. It worked in that game.
For GC3, maybe we could do something with ships. Maybe new components for the colonize ships. Like prefab buildings that are instantly placed on the planet with only a 1 turn build time. You could also use them on planets you have already colonized as a way to easily upgrade a planet that is behind the curve.
There's nothing wrong with governers as long as the option is always there to control everything yourself if you want.
Good strategy games have micro. Micro can add to challenge, immersion, strategy and even pure fun. Streamlining can go too far and ruin the soul of games.
What's tedious is micro that are there just because of poor UI/design.
Good point. That's the strength and beauty of TBS, more depth and micro is manageble.
I love the micro-management! Not only do I never use governors, I don't even set my ships to auto explore/mine. I hate the rush-rush of real-time strategy games. I play turn-based games because I want to take my time and get involved with every aspect of what's going on in my empire.
I really hope they don't dumb things down for the sake of multiplayer.
I am afraid my original post was not sufficiently clear. Of course a TBS game requires micro management and this is and should be fun.
However, in Galciv2 micro management could become tedious and boring in mid to late game (especially in larger galaxies). So I was hoping we could come up with some suggestions for improvements. I am not sure that AI governors would be an improvement, as it requires very high quality AI programming. One thing I found annoying in GC2 was that you had you adjust the empire/economy management sliders every turn to optimize your economy/morale etc.. Another example that was boring is that you had to constantly pet every colony to see whether they needed an upgrade. Don't get my wrong, I also like building things on planets etc. Improving UI/design could also be a good way to make micro management less tedious.
This is also a point that I hope Stardock will pick up, because I read many people complaining about this.
In MoO2, I sometimes whished for a player defined build queue since most colonies build their basic infastructure alway the same way, so instead of picking the same buildings in the right order every time, one click to fill the list would make it easier with out seizing the possibility of doing it the "old" style or to choose another option if needed.
The problem I see is to automatically place the buildings on the map - you didn't need to do this in Moo and you want to use the specialized fields on the planet, so you can't just place it all one by one on free tiles.
Good proposal Yarodin, any other suggestions?
Considering the fact that Brad plans on really vamping up the AI (through use of the internet and such) this may be something to consider actually. The development of a good AI governor may even help develop of a good overall AI.
I may enjoy microing the first ten colonies, but thirty... So yes, I'd love to see a governor or a pre-set buildings list.
Build queue's, governors that aren't useless, preferably governors that don't undo what I just put into the build queue. I can't remember which game I was playing but I would set the gov to build research or build cash and then after researching a new tech realize that town/planet could use this new food production upgrade and throw it into the build queue only to find out that fifty turns later it hadn't even started building.
If we're getting governors please prioritize player orders over governor orders and let us turn them off.
I think the good balance is the way. Probably more micro in the beginning and ways to reduce it in the later stages. I'm not so sure I personally want to play housekeeping under name 4X (explore, expand, exploit, and exterminate) all day long.
Plenty of micro. Plenty of tools to make it efficient. That's what I want.
It annoyed me too.
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