So according to what has been revealed so far, diplomacy is getting a good update. But what about espionage?
GC2's espionage system was more like an afterthought, it didn't really add anything to the game except allowing the AI to annoy the hell out of you.
If the espionage system is going to be revamped I urge/plead/beg/recommend you to have a look at how it's done in Imperium Galactica II because it's espionage system was actually worth using.
Edit; ground-combat was better in IG2 too. (Not talking about the real-time aspect though, I know GC2/3 is turn-based.)
Yeah, I hope the espionage will get significant updates to be really meaningful. Birth of the Federation had really nice espionage system as well...good intel was a strategic factor there! You could steal technologies, ships, sabotage projects, ignite rebelions...and so on.
good reminders. IG2 was excellent.
Espionage system should bring revolution.
kind of mixing of what you want done - you can add 50% of bribery, 25% of coercion and 25% of randomness to get enemy scientists to hand something to you...
you could and should pack it into mini quests like FE has; mini quests that reveal or bring something forward to players/gamne/locations etc...
It would make all the games different.
I hope they also go with stamps for galactic regions to make mini scenarios in parts of those places..
diplomacy needs far more then before....
I don't think that it was a huge priority like other stuff but at least, they worked on it. It started weak and got better with expansions. It would be nice to get a decent espionage system from the very beginning, integrated with your military, research or diplomatic activities.
It would be cool if the espionage system was integrated enough that you could give spies specific, detailed missions:
Or you could put the Espionage Center on autopilot on goals like:
One thing that could be very usefull is something that the Total War series has done. Have the spies able to gain experience and be able to increase the chance that they can carry out their mission. Or conversely have their inexperience negatively impact their effectiveness.
I've always believed, in order for espionage to work, it has to be a victory condition. I'm expecting a very hardcore and in-depth espionage system this time around for Galciv3.
So, if your going to put money in espionage, it's going to have to cost you so much that you won't be able to spend money in other areas especially in buying or building ships etc.. Basically, if you want an espionage victory, your going to have to take a risk in the right moment(s) during the game to halt your military/technology/diplomatic progress completely in order to shift the tide on your side by investing in espionage whether it is (sabotage/theft/mutiny). The AI would then determine how much of your espionage did you use to weaken your opponents to a point where they can never rebound, thus giving you an espionage victory. Just like a technological victory where when you reach a certain point, you would get a tech victory and so on.
Personally Id like to have a spy agency rather then like 6 guys in an entire galaxy.
I think you should be able to overthrow planet's government with espionage.Install enough people in their government system and flip the planet.In combination with cultural influence this could be potential tool against more militaristic, powerful races.However, this should not be as easy as cultural influence. Should take long time planning and investment.
The Espionage system definatly needs overhauling
I'd like to be able to just create revolts in planets of major civilizations and make them become independent/neutral, with bad relationship with their "parent" civilization.
I really like the idea of an Espionage Victory - but how would it be implemented?
I could see an Espionage Victory coming from a series of steps like, say:
Only thing is, how do you let non-spy-centered civilizations have a shot at combating this tactic? Would they have to go on some kind of hunt, investigating "uninhabited" planets all over the galaxy in hopes of finding the one the main spy center is on? Or desperately try to achieve victory themselves, with spies hampering their moves at every turn? In short, can you make it fun?
It's called counter espionage
...OK, now we have a name. But I was really hoping for a description to go with it.
I am not sure you need an espionage victory condition if you make it powerful enough that it can allow you to achieve the other victory conditions
Espionage should allows you to:
It should be possible to direct each action as a galaxywide effect or localized to a specific ship/planet.
You should be able to decide if you want to decrease or increase the influence or moral of your own or enemy planets. There may be scenarios where you want to boost another races influence or moral.
It would also help if there are common minor random events that would duplicate the effects of these actions so that a player does not automatically identify them as espionage when they happen. Introducing some randomness to the production system would help as well.
Basically, for an espionage victory to occur, you have to devise an espionage tech tree. When you research the last espionage tech in the tree, you win an espionage victory. Along the way, you will benefit from each espionage tech you researched off course. The same concept like the military and commerce tree etc.. The counter espionage will simply be incorporated in the espionage tech tree to research, and will have multiple levels and will be used to prevent and thwart any attempt to cause harm with espionage. At least, I think this way, it can work.
How is this different from a research victory?
The espionage victory conditions I have come up with are:
Thought of another victory condition. Foment revolutions in each faction. Each turn more planets/ships will join the revolts. Once the revolutions start you have X number of turns to cause all units/planets to join the revolution.
If they included something like a king unit, then you could have an espionage victory from successfully assassinating every race's leader before they can elect a new one. Causing the universe to descend into chaos.
GalCiv usually gives the players time to react to the victory conditions. A coordinated assassination would be hard to react to.
I'm like picturing spys and leaders all being actual units you can move around. You could try keeping your leader in isolation on a fortified world to keep them safe. The hard part about letting the player react to an espionage victory is the espionage. It's all about being secret.
There was a big backlash to this in Elemental.
This is why I like causing revolutions. It gives you a reasonable amount of time to react.
Of the top of my head, this is what was possible in IGII;
- Training (different levels, higher level of training cost more and takes longer)- Gather intel (planet locations, fleet info, tech info)- Steal (credits and technology)- Assassinate leaders (causing instability in the empire, planets defect to other empires)- Counter-intelligence (enemy spies get wrong info)- Hunt enemy spies (hunt them down and then either kill them or try to turn them; double-agents)- Sabotage (destroy ships, buildings or starbases)
Imperium Galactica 2 added RPG elements like leveling spies/ships/fleets first over total war series.
I love that aspect in elemental.
I am a tad worried that staging revolutions might just feel like an part of the combat victory then a whole thing in itself.
Espionage definitely needs some work, However finding information on a empire just seems like a necessity especially in the new multiplayer games. However making the espionage game fun and engaging for a game so focused on the big picture that is difficult to impossible, I would be glad to see what suggestions pop up
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