FTL is a good game, but if Star Control followed its combat it would feel nothing like SC. And there aren't very many games out there that have Spacewar-style combat - if a new Star Control doesn't do it, who will?

I think fast-paced top-down arcadey combat with a gravity well and lots of very different ships is absolutely essential to what makes Star Control distinct. If it were jettisoned because this a reboot, I would quickly lose faith in the project. In a way it's even more essential than SC2's exploration and dialog, since the combat was the heart of SC1 (which is sometimes dismissed, but is a good and unique game that they should think about drawing elements from).

Star Control's combat has more depth than may appear at first glance too. There needs to be a separate Melee-style mode with multiplayer - I've sunk so many hours into SC2's Melee over the years, and Netmelee in Ur-quan Masters is great fun.

But I don't think it needs to be exactly the same as SC1/2's combat in every way. Multiple ships is something you need to be careful with. Fred Ford and Paul Reiche said once that they tried multi-ship battles, but it wasn't fun. The SC fan project Timewarp had multi-ship combat and it was a neat novelty, but got old fast because it was basically just chaos. But if they could find a way to do it well, I wouldn't be against it, though keeping the option for 1v1 (at least in multiplayer) would be good.

One thing that I think has a lot of potential is more environmental objects. Imagine multiple planets/moons, planets with really strong/weak gravity wells, planets that move. Going beyond the planet, you could have things like asteroid fields, defense stations, comets, etc. Full smooth turning angles would be good of course.

 

I disagree - it is quite good. There's huge variety in the ships, it's exciting and fast-paced and controls well (once you get the hang of the inertia and screen wrapping), there's real depth in things like different ship matchups and counters and how to master different ships, it's great multiplayer, and not many other games play like it.

SC1 is a Star Control game too, and it's Melee + turn-based strategy. Melee is basically how SC started out and is the thing that ties the gameplay of both canonical SC games together (that, and cross-genre experimentation). It's not something that can just be discarded as unimportant, and I doubt Fred Ford and Paul Reiche would want to drop it for something completely different. When asked about it in chats, they've talked about building on Melee and adding features to it in a future game, but they've never mentioned replacing it.

I'm not absolutely wedded to all of SC2's game mechanics - it's okay if planet exploration and ship upgrading are totally different, for example. And I wouldn't mind strategy elements if it's executed better than SC3. But Melee really is important. I'm not saying it has to be exactly the same, but if the general framework of fast-paced top-down combat isn't there it won't be in the spirit of Star Control.

And I wasn't saying don't do multiple ships or that it can't be done - in fact, the creators have said they would like to do it in the future. Just be careful that it's done well.

To see what Star Control melee with multiple ships might look like, there's Space Pirates and Zombies.  Aside from an annoyance or two, SPAZ does combat in this style well. It has a Star Control feel and the creators acknowledge Star Control as part of their influence. 

I think getting the action down, the space combat, is Stardock's greatest challenge here. The quality of the action usually wins out over even story in action RPGs. Bad action with a good story = yawn, good action with a bad story = hey at least it's fun. It certainly proved true for me with SPAZ.  It seems like it would be a bold move with modern games to clone the 1v1 combat in the previous games but at the same time, the dynamic would be very different with multiple ships. I think SPAZ's combat could serve as a good model to start from, and improve upon.

Honestly, I want to keep the top down space combat, but make some major graphical additions, as well as add new features to the gameplay.  At its core, the Star Control series's combat wasn't set up to be either RTS style, or 3D space simulation style.  Star Control Classic's Melee is fundamentally a fighting game.

Fighters have come a long, LONG way since Star Control 2 came out in 1996.  Star Control 1 actually came out in 1990, meaning that it actually predated Street Fighter, despite convergence in character / ship selection!  In that time, fighters have added specials, supers, the ability to have multiple characters involved via tag-outs and assists, and a plethora of properties, movement options, and techniques.  There is a lot of room, I think, to expand on Star Control Classic's Melee, as long as we keep in mind that, at it's core, it's a 2D fighter.

2D fighters focus on having a wide variety of characters with a unique and colorful designs, differing movement options, different character styles.  Tactics revolve tremendously around positioning, movement ranges, speeds, styles, and controlling the opponent's psychology.  Certain characters will have restricted movement options but tremendous damage, or unconventional movement abilities that make them unpredictable and dangerous.

I want to expound on this, but I don't want to bore everyone.  Suffice it to say, I think that the 2D, top down, fighting game should remain, but additional things, such as limited count special moves, differing environmental hazards, option moves (like selected supers in some SF games), new odd movement styles, and potentially tag-outs or assist moves ought to be included.  We ought to be able to have a tertiary ability, and possibly different classes of ships.

Fighters have already explored the ability to have one vs. multiple characters, with some success.  In Skullgirls and Capcom vs. SNK 1 & 2, you could opt to pick fewer characters in exchange for a proportional boost to the damage and health of your choice.  While I don't think we ought to have a proportional boost, I think that it would make sense to class ships into Scout, Cruiser, and Capital, and restrict the Squad size based around the classes.  That would prevent, for example, a 6 on 6 battle between the Chenjesu and Shofixti ships, helping balance the cheaper ships with the heavier one, and encouraging a diversity of squad.  Star Control 2's Hyper Melee approached this by its ship cost - this would just be a simplification.

I'm overflowing with ideas - I'd be glad to discuss 'em.

I think that upgrades via "Precursor datapads" like in SC1 could be a nice addition. With the difference of them being an inventory item - meaning transferrable between ships. I didn't like the "research and upgrade everything" they did in SC3.

About the combat itself, I think I'd like to play one ship versus several enemies, but the rest of the ships will be like power-ups to your current ship. For instance having Yehat or Utwig will lower your damage taken, because they can shield you. Earthling and Druuge can get you more damage per shot, like long-range sniper. Syreen and Pkunk can help detect cloaked ships, because of their psi-power and so on.

The "bonus" the escorts provide should be proportional to their current crew - Fully crewed ship will provide full benefit, If it only has the captain - no benefit.

I think the main ship should be either a very mediocre fighter, or not be battle capable at all. Just be a crew holding facility and be dedicated to the exploration.

One thing that could be really different and fun without breaking the mould would be to inject a Homeworld-style sense of scale to Melee. Imagine playing an Ur-Quan Dreadnought versus a Shofixti Scout but, to the Ur-Quan player, the Scout is an insignificant speck while, to the Scout, the Dreadnought fills the screen as it blankets the field with hot plasma fire, its drones only a little smaller than your own vessel, its weak spots visible but only on the long-range scanner. It would make playing against Ilwrath ships particularly terrifying. You could get the mouse involved too - setting targets and manually charging batteries, say. Or switching drives with gestures for maximum maneuverability. A special ability could be activated by a microgame in the vein of Space Team: twiddle that knob, pull that lever or, because this is Star Control, roll the MetaMollusk down its pipe, unwind the roasted prey from that dark and ominous web.

MattFunke - what you describe would be fun but it wouldn't be Star Control. There would probably be resistance to anything that isn't top-down and 2D from the hardcores. That wouldn't amount to much sales-wise but would be a loss to goodwill.

It has to be top down! That was the best bit!  These days there are so many new technologies that would make this constricted view even better- I had a stab at it myself and had a blast: 

Tilting on a 2d plane : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H__YPbXelrk 

Swarming species : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JykfhDzznOs

There are millions of fleet managey slow paced or 3d combat sim style scifi games out there- and as much as I love them, I'd personally hate to see Star Control go that route.  The variety and rock/paper/scissors approach kept me playing (and loving) Star Control for years after the adventure game had been completed.

Mike

@runonthespot

My personal take, and this is just me talking, would be to allow the player to control 1 ship at a time, have it still be top down, but have the battle space a lot more interesting (i.e. not just a planet but lots of things in there in a bigger battle arena -- we're not limited by 640K anymore so we can do a lot more).  But I am a fan of the top-down view myself.

I think, given where we are in terms of tech, that we could have more than 2 weapons. But I think we'd want to have a lengthy beta to really fine tune this. 

why not learn the lesson from Star Trek Legacy space combat? Or Starfleet Command space combat? they are fun.

Honestly - and I have found this trying to get my friend to play Star Control 2 - it's not so much that the combat is terribly difficult, but, rather, that Star Control drops you into it without a great deal of preparation.  Even a simple discussion of strategy with illustration would help people.  Knowing that, as an Earthling Cruiser, your primary strategy is to fight from as great a distance as possible, would help many enormously in the first few fights.

I was considering whether we ought to have damage reflect itself in the ship failing to function, such as having a system damage bar - and this does happen in some space games, including the X-Wing series, and Faster Than Light.  But I think it's generally a bad idea.  The cornerstone of all fighting games / fighting game systems is that you can continue to fight and control your character at its maximum capacity up to the moment of defeat.  With the exception of moves / techniques that are specifically designed to hamper it.

Baiken's counter-seal in Guilty Gear, Valentine's lag-poison in Skullgirls... the stun / dizzy effect in many different games.  Or, to hit closer to home, the VUX limpets, Chenjesu DOGIs, and the Melnorme secondary hit.  I think that it is important for Star Control's combat not to have momentum that is independent of player skill and positioning.  With the exception that ships specifically designed to cripple opponents should be allowed, as that ability is a trade off for something else

I like the idea of a human player thoroughly controlling one ship.  However, I think the idea of involving the rest of the fleet somehow isn't a bad one - I'd like to see the ability to dynamically switch, rather than restarting from the selection screen after escaping.  Possibly, also, an assist function, or a passive effect otherwise.

If you do get to switch, I still don't think it should be immediate - I think that your ship should continue to fly to the edge of the field, but your new ship should spawn and approach the battle.  This would make the Ilwrath much more terrifying (if they don't spot the exchange) but otherwise still retains balance, leaving the ship at risk.

If ships do assist, it ought to be on a heavy cooldown - I think it might simply be more interesting to have a dramatic switch than a frequent interruption.

 

Hello all,

 

I have to say I really hope that they keep the top down battle aspect. I have enjoyed Star Control 1 and 2 since they were first released.  It would be cool to see what could be done in that format with modern technology.  If they ended up changing the battle scenes to a first person perspective, I am afraid I would lose much interest in the proposed sequel.  The top down battle sequences are what make it unique.  Obviously, it is still a commercial venture.  If the producers end up going away from the top down perspective, I would hope it would be for reasons of profit.... everyone needs to make a living.

Now let's assume everything goes my way (fingers crossed) and they make the game keeping the top down aspect.  If I had one suggestion I could shoehorn into the development it would be this:

One problem that came up is that during certain match-ups in melee (say Yehat vs Pkunk) an unconfident player (controlling the Pkunk) could nearly indefinitely prolong the battle by keeping his distance.  What I would propose to combat this would be that after a certain time period the battle area shrinks by say 10%.  After this time period elapsed again, shrink the area by another 10% , etc... Until the playing area is a small area around the planet, there by forcing the combatants to engage.  This would encourage the faster ships to attempt attacks while they had more space available to them.

 

@NStormRider and @Tjashen

NStormRider hit the nail on the head.  I really don't believe the reflexes are as important as Tjashen makes them out to be.  Knowing the strategy of each ship will help you far more than simply being quick on the buttons.  

@Tjashen

I have a tip that might help you play the battles a bit better.  The original controls for the game (when Star Control 1 came out) are the ones I still use, and I think they are the best.  It is a 1-2-3-4-5 setup.

1 - special weapon

2 - turn left

3-  turn right

4 - accelerate

5-  regular weapon

 

Right index finger on the gas and left index finger on turn right.  

 

Have a great day all,

 

G