Especially when considering assassin vs warrior - both are offensive types for melee (although assassin also works as archer) - which one is everyone choosing?
Why? And for a melee type character, which one do you think works best? I like how defender can support an army, but at the same time, I'm not sure if it's a better choice than the dps oriented warrior and assassin.
Assassin doesn't work as anything. They should only be picked when someone wants to minimize their fun and chances of winning. (there are rare exceptions where perfect assassin equipment can be found and dodge can be made high enough)
Right now I'm finding myself going heavy defender. Mostly for the support abilities.
I'm an aggressive player and prefer assassins and mages. Warriors are acceptable. I don't like defenders.
Assassins have high chances of getting a critical hit.
Mages can cast protective spells (like gift of iron and fire protection) and can cast aggressive spells (like sunder). If your sovereign is a Beastlord, you also want him to be a mage to get high spell mastery.
This made me lol. It's funny, because it's true.
When it comes to functionality (melee-wise) and just having fun stomping people, I always pick Warrior. I do believe warriors could stand a few more bells and whistles (not buffs per se), like being able to switch to a secondary weapon mid-battle. But I believe Assassins are in dire need of help, both in being buffed and just being... a lot more interesting.
How are defenders doing right now actually relative to warrior? I've been using those 2 classes very heavily and always making my sovereign a mage.
Defenders are an entirely different category. They are completely dependent on units to support them with damage, or which to support with defensive army-wide buffs. Hard to compare except to say this: early game warriors are the only relevant champion in the game. Late game, defenders are better than warriors as long as the warrior doesn't find a perfect set of equipment.
Usually I find later in the game, plate wearing classes tend to be outfitted in full champion's plate gear, equipment wise, and whatever good weapons have been salvaged/looted from quests/dragons/other beasts.
Assassins should become archers. Defenders are great tanks to keep nasty-bad foes off your mages and archers. My ideal primary party (and in this order) includes a Mage (DPS), Defender (tank),Mage (healer/archer), Assassin (archer) and Warrior (DPS).
Hmm, there is a particular assassin build though that can solo the entire map.. Granted, it needs a custom faction to work, but it can solo everything and anything 100%
For faction, you need wraiths, with lucky, scout(optional, but REALLY helps with leveling up faster), and any disadvantage other than magic vulnerability.
Then your Sov gets brilliant, the 2 abilities that give accuracy and spell resistance per level, and this is critical: air magic disciple. You want tutelage readily available from the get go, as well as evade. For disadvantage I pick scarred, as I rely on wraith touch to be in top health most of the times.
When you start, use tutelage and evade on your sov, pick potential first, then on leveling focus on dodge first. Also research monk robes asap, you NEED those. By the time you get the +1 dodge per level trait, it is possible that you have found another +dodge item, use it even if it is the weakest competitor for it's slot. Eventually you will lose your militia and spearmen, and by then you need your dodge to be above 80. Next stop is the +10 dodge cloak. By that time, it will be quite impossible to get hit in battle.
After you are done with +dodge, go up vital strike, and grab the eviscerate skill, then finish vital strike and go up the armour piercing skills.
As far as weapons go, anything with armour piercing or +crit chance and damage is a go, although eventually you will get the druss blade which is awesome for your character. Generally you want to stick with swords/daggers and shields for the extra dodge, initiative, and counter (counters crit too, and with such a good dodge and being solo, countering is often half your damage right there.) Note that +resistance items and elemental defences are also highly sought after.
The magic skill you search for in your champions you recruit is earth. You want nature's cloak on your sov asap, to be able to tackle an arena (and for general drake and such monsters in lairs)
The end product is huge amounts of stacked evade (my last assassing sov had 130+ evade, but that doesn't mean he doesn't occasionally get hit, only that he can heal that minor damage back up with wraith touch), often a 50% crit chance with much boosted crit damage, and a killing machine that ignores armour and never gets hit. I used that Sov to solo the entire map, taking everything and everyone, from the highest level dragons, to all wildland bosses.
He usually 2-3 hits ashwake and chambercoil dragons.
The key is to know what you can tackle at each step of the build-up, and get xp fast.
Does this make assassins op? Well, this assassin is op, but I doubt this applies to anything else but this very specific build. I will try a krax blood or tarth blood assassin now that I perfected this one, but I doubt it is going to work without wraith touch and the inherent dodge bonus wraiths have.
Yeah specific builds I suppose are OP I suppose. I wonder if we could make an OP sovereign for 1 of the 4 other classes. Hmm.
The dragon's breath will still kill you though, unless you have 100% fire resistance.
It's pretty easy to get 100% fire resistance if you use a cloak plus one other +50%, e.g. a protection from fire spell.
The only problem with that build is swarm. If you get Tectonic Bulwark (immune to swarm), assassin builds can be quite insane.
i wonder how the dodge vs. accuracy calculation actually works. i mean, once you hit the end of the warfare tree, you (or the AI, especially high level AI) can go for the repeatable +10% accuracy boost to get (almost) unlimited accuracy. not sure how the interaction between accuracy and dodge works, though. i guess 100% dodge is great vs. everything else, but if the other side has hundreds of accuracy points, they might actually ignore your dodge.
Its a straight up comparison.
So if i have 80 accuracy vs 20 dodge, i have a 60% chance to hit. 140 accuracy would negate 40 dodge.
I have fun with my assassins. They are good at killing but I noticed that you have to build them up a little at first. I've ran both melee and missile assassins and the easiest one would be missile. But the Melee assassin is fun to play too but weaker in the lower levels but once you get to 5th you should be ok.
warriors deal more damage than assassins with most weapons, including the assassin's added chance for crits.
If you think assassins are fun, thats one thing. If you think they are in good shape as is you are either playing on low difficulty, or skewing your champions level by having dense monsters or higher world difficulty(which actually lowers the game difficulty by providing extra experience for your champions).
I am playing on Normal and sometines on the difficulty level above Normal. I also have played with various setting somethimes dense monster sometimes sparse. But I have not really had a problem with the assassins both melee and missle. They are a little weaker at first but around 5th they are ok. I also play with the other types as well and they all have thier advantages and disavantages but so far none have been too OP or too Weak. At least not that I have noticed yet and I've played a lot of games in LH. Warriors are defantly better at the lowest levels than the Assasian.
To me the main issue is that warriors seem better at the assassination role than assassins. If you want to make an assassin warrior, get a big club with all of the attack bonuses and then the crushing blow bonus tree, and you now have a guy that can rack up massive damage in a single hit, enough to one shot many creatures.
I'd agree that warrior is the stronger. Especially at the higher levels.
Warrior has
- Sweep and Blade Rush, powerful AOE abilities
- Revenge and reap, which can add up in combat
- Several attack bonuses like better counterattacks and a buff to attack power
- Bonuses against special units like enemy dragons
Against this, assassin has
- Attacks like Gambler's Strike and the attack that never misses
- Eviscerate
- More powerful crits and higher chances to crit
- Ability to ignore enemy defenses by up to 75%
- Some archer bonuses
At first I favored warriors but now I have to say I like the assassin a bit better. You can make them extremely powerful with a build like MoRmeNgIl's, but even without that I think they hold their own. They just have more "spikey" damage due to crits compared to a warrior's more consistent damage. Furthermore, defense-penetration scales well late-game. Their damage mitigation mechanic (dodge) is also "spikey" in nature, but you can raise dodge to truly ridiculous levels and take NO damage from many, many attacks. Anyway, ultimately it comes down to personal preference. I've enjoyed having a warrior and an assassin in the same army. Assassins also have more mobility, with more initiative talents and the "Switch Places" ability (whatever it's called), which is pretty sweet against a bunch of ranged opponents.
The thing I dislike most about warriors is that you are encouraged to specialize in a certain weapon type without knowing what weapons might drop for you. Cleave is too situational, and bash is just *yawn* after awhile, especially considering it's an easy one to spam with all your regular troops. Also, club-type weapons have the worst initiative of any melee weapon, and the more I play, the more I favor high initiative. For this reason I usually end up going the sword spec route, because a) a lot of the nice drops from quests and/or wildlands bosses are swords and the last upgrade gives you a counterattack with any weapon.
Just go get a Heartseeker from the Epic Arena quest and give it to your crit-build assassin. If you have Masterwork Chain you can even buy him some pretty good armor to go with the excellent dodge. You won't be sad.
Re: defenders, they just haven't caught my attention yet. There's no true "tanking" mechanic (i.e. taunt or the like) in this game, and generally I just like to kill stuff fast, hopefully before they even get an action in. If enemies are getting even remotely close to my back line, something has gone terribly wrong.
Edit: LOL at the forum inserting a smiley face for my b-parenthesis.
Three idiots. defender is better idiot since he can sit front and take hit. others don't.
Best way to use assassin is maximize dodge and crit. then if your hit failed crit or dodge. reload game. repeat.
Since ai is horrible. there is no need any mechanic. just let it sit front. passes all turn he take. then all mobs attack meatshield. some bigger maps hard to do this but you can reload.
That may well work but it sounds painfully boring
with the critical damage they get assassins do better damage with spells then warriors (though obviously less than mages)
when i tried Relias as an assassin usually used spells half the time vs using melee
getting a crit on thunderstrike was always nice when it happened
what's the point to take assie or warrie if they weaker than mage anyway? mage get useful magic. deal more damage. etc. assassin or warrior can tank? nope. deal? nope. more magic? nope. worse than even general. only useful skill in assassin is break. dark mage take aoe break. can tank(aggro) with summon. damage. useful spells. more exp to get high lvl.
i'm playing ridiculous and game is ridiculously easy when i use mage + defender(henchman). use invincible. use wail or thunderbolt. = win. my army score is normal ~ strong but this easily beat epic quest etc.
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