For those that are curious. Here is a henchmen permanently dying in battle. The idea is that henchmen fall once and get an injury that will force them to die in battle the next time they fall. (Note: not stormworld compatible at the moment, I ask heavenfall what the best way to make it compatible with stormworld would be. I'm basically using his bg stuff already)
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/75549875/Fallen%20Enchantress/nonChampionsDie/nonChampionsDiev0_85.zip
There is a slight issue with the inability for the autoresolve function to autocast. (To combat the autoresolve function, the henchmen will still get the normal injuries as well.)
You did it again Parrottmath
Perhaps if you make the injury give a negative value to combat value autoresolve will always kill the henchman so the result will be the same
to parrotmath!
Another mod for the game!
Yeah, it was exactly what you idea was... I've been playing with it for awhile now and the idea of the autocast works, but I've been trying to get the unit to use it with the autoresolve and been unable to do so.
I've copied noble legacy spell and bloodline attributes so it should cast even with autoresolve. Right now it is not working.
Ideally I would like give this autocast ability to the henchmen at unit creation, but I don't want to take away a trait slot for them. We are caped at 4 traits and adding another trait causes other problems. I've got more tricks to try, but at the moment this is working and set up with still punishment with autoresolve (gives normal champion injuries) the first injury though is the permanent death (always).
Oddly enough it is more of a fix to the game (the manual says henchmen should permanently die in battle.)
I suppose that the problem is that AI vs AI uses autoresolve and then IA henchmen don't die.
What about unlocking an strategic spell called "Kill Henchman" or something like that and encourage the AI to cast it? Would it work?
That might work, but I'm perfectly fine giving the AI basically the same henchmen they have now. The AI was programmed with that intention and I don't think I necessarily want to change that fact. The idea was more against a player exploit...but I'm fine with it.
The actual problem here is that there is a bug in the system. If one creates an autocast spell then it will not autocast when one automatically resolves a battle. This should not be the case and needs to be addressed.
I understand. Yes, bugs need to be solved. I agree with you.
Looks compatible with SW to me, are you having any issues?
Seems like a weird solution though, the AI autoresolves all its battles. The AI will stack up on wounded Henchmen that will die as soon as they are confronted by the player, severely gimping their armies in relevant battles. What you could do is make a strategic spell that kills the user, that the AI will cast when it has X injury.
There are a few tags I need to add to make it completely compatible. I am using special unit tags (that I don't think you have in your collection of units).
I never thought about the AI stacking up on wounded Henchmen. I suppose that I should fix it so the AI will kill the Henchmen when they are injured. Simply add a strategic spell to the henchmen that allows them to cast to kill themselves I put that up later though.
If you don't mind me asking, could you briefly explain the general steps to do that? Thanks in advance
If you don't mind me asking, could you briefly explain the general steps to do that?
Yeah not sure how this might be possible? I tried casting a strategic spell on them that applies <Attribute>PermanentDeath</Attribute> but it doesn't kill them (until they get killed in tactical battle next).
I've been thinking about it reading these threads though... whilst this mod is a pretty clever workaround.... I think HF makes a good point in that (unfortunately) I think this would be a bit tough on the AI. For one thing... the champion loses any gear they were carrying... so whilst a human player would be smart enough to offloads all the magical gear from a champion they know will die next battle... the AI would not be, so will lose that gear.
Maybe not a huge drama but for me personally I'm trying to avoid making things any harder for the AI to figure out that they already are. It' s shame there's not just seperate tags for <Permadeath> <UsesEquip> and <CanQuest>.
Theoretically I suppose that you can create a new strategic spell, something like "KillFatallyWoundedHenchman" and give the AI very high priority so it wants to cast it whenever it cans. But I am not sure how all that translates into practice.
All your points are very interesting ones and I think we are learning a lot in those threads. It's a bit like a shared research
I also think that we should make things easier for the AI, and that's why I wonder if degrading the fatally wounded champion value would help and perhaps make the AI disband the unit itself. In addition to add that fatal wound, load the injury with lots of maluses, reducing HP, Attack, Defense, Accuracy, etc. And also give the injury a huge combat rating malus. Would the AI be smart enough to say "this unit is worthless so I'd better disband it"? Perhaps raise the wages a lot to make the decission a no brainer, even for the AI?
But yes, if we could autocast strategic spells that would be a lot easier, or if we could use the tags you propose.
For me personally this is very important because I am implementing food upkeep for soldiers in my Population mod and only champions have access to A_ADDITIVE tags, so I am making every single unit a champion, and it would be great to find a way to (almost) automatically make the AI clean fatally wounded (false) champions.
Getting the AI to cast a spell isn't the problem.... the problem is, what/how to make a spell (GameModifier) that kills a champion on the strategic map?
BTW i'm curious about your food upkeep but i'll post another thread so as not derail this one further.
Perhaps using the <IsWorthy> tag? So only the champions with the injury evaluate to worthy. Or alternatively placing the injury as prerequisite (if possible)
No the problem is, how to you actually kill the bugger if the <IsChampion> flag is set....?
I think getting them to cast a spell would be achievable, you could probably even just have the permadeath injury unlock a strategic level spel using UnlockCombatAbilityl that can only be cast on "self" has a high priority and no casting cost.
But assuming that can be done, I can't see a way to actually kill a champion outright via a strategic spell. They're immortal. The only way I can see they can be killed is with that PermanentDeath modifier but that only applies after tactical combat.
Ever hear of the spell steal spirit. it kills a champion on the battlefield. Something similar can be done here. The idea is that once the permanentdeath attribute is applied, then the champion can be killed within that turn by other means. I just don't have the time at present to create that senario.
To make things easier on the AI, I could in all fairness remove that injury from the AI player. I could leave the AI using henchmen like they were and you the player using the henchmen like this. It's not that hard to do...I'll let you ponder how I'm going to accomplish that.
Now this is an excellent question.
I have no idea what the answer is but i'm curious if anyone else knows this. In fact i'm wondering if the AI *ever* disbands units? I'm guessing probably not.
I honestly don't know the answer to this question. Only Frogboy would be able to answer this and I'm not sure he lurks too much in these modding areas.
Hmm good one.... didn't think about that one because I don't use it (I like my champions and tend not to kill them off as a habit! )
Had a look at that spell.... I see it uses a <Attribute>PermanentDeath</Attribute> GameModifier. Which doesn't kill them (rather seems to sop them resurrecting if they are killed). However it's also got the <Attribute>StealSpirit</Attribute> modifier. Did a quick test and added the StealSpirit to my "KillChampion" test spell and sure enough it kills the bugger dead.
Only thing is... you don't want some random champ or the sov to pick up a bonus spell trait from killing them of.
I'm thinking it would be possible to make this work by having the Champ cast it on themselves. Make the "kill spell" a spell with target Self, that only the guys you have the "permadeath" injury can cast. Pretty sure that would work actually... too late to test now, will give it a go when I get the chance.
Yeah I thought about doing that. Probably a few ways to go about it but you could probably just duplicate the henchmen units, add a <IsAIOnlyUnit>1</IsAIOnlyUnit> tag and reverse your BG_IsChampion and BG_IsNonChampion tags. Would need to stop the AI from training the non-AI henchmen though... somehow. Will sleep on that one
Precisely... the rest I'll reveal later
So wait a second, if you just make it that all Henchmen automatically have a trait that has the PermanentDeath game modifier they won't be able to resurrect at the city in that if you just made it a base trait that all Henchmen get.
Yes, but trained units can only have 4 traits. I didn't feel like giving an alternate bloodline to do this...
You can actually circumvent this by making a set of trained abilities that only work with the henchmen model you made before, but then you have to restrict the rest of the trained unit abilities to non henchmen, which is of course a lot of work for a solution to whether someone dies permanently instead of just having a <retreats>1</retreats> function. If its a 0 they retreat if its a 1 they die if they fall in combat.
with due respect, I think you are wrong at this one. When I performed my tests the strategic spell killed the champion instantly. Also, the attribute PermanentDeath in an ability will do nothing. Only works in spells.
And if someone designs a henchmen with no abilities?
Also, are you suggesting that <retreats>1</retreats> is an actual tag for champions that cause permanent death? Or is this just a hypothetical tag?
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