Giving some feedback on this, was a problem in FE too.
The treasury vault give you 1% on your total money, which doesn't seem much, but every turn you keep making more money. The problem is that in long games it soon creates virtually infinite money, taking away one layer of managment. Also, it benefits from city specific +%gildar bonuses, effectively being 2.5% interest with all the upgrades.
When you start snowballing those money, that 1% will give you far more than all your other cities combined, meaning I'm putting all my cities on producing mana/research, because I don't care about money anymore.
I'm now on turn 720 (1/4 of the turn limit) and even rushing every construction, upgrading every outpost, and having aggressive expansion and military wages I can't spend more than I make.
Here the situation on turn 720:
Suggestion: remove that 1% interest on your capital, and replace it with:
1. Huge bonus to the city % gildar
or
2. Small bonus to all the cities % gildar
Fallen Enchantress is full of snowball effects like this. I like it for that, it doesn't restrain you and lets you do ridiculus things (ever try the refined research singularity?)
that's funny dude
I have never got that far into a game without either getting bored because it is trivial now, or winning.
What turn are you actually on?
What I want to know is how you have a city that is a Level 10 Village.
Not sure this example is applicable to the game in general. It's an abnormal situation you've created here.
It could just be sanity checked to not give more than, say, 100 gold per turn (1% of 10,000 gold).
I have the same question.
But yeah, money really isn't that useful in this game beyond rushing items.
Abnormal how? It's just a long game. The interest just keep growing every turn.
It's specific to this map, there is a village in the middle of it that's owned by wildlands creature. You can conquer it, it has great grain/materials/essences (8/6/4 if I recall good), can reach level 10, but it never get past village... meaning you don't get advanced building and the place sucks for gold/research production. But the essences are nice.
Screenshot was on turn 720, with 60k gildar per turn.
Now I'm on turn 742, with 127k gildar per turn, without changing much in these 22 turns (no new cities or such). That's the snowball effect.
Unless you have Betrayers, then you can literally buy the world!
Screenshot was on turn 720, with 60k gildar per turn.Now I'm on turn 742, with 127k gildar per turn, without changing much in these 22 turns (no new cities or such). That's the snowball effect.
You're experiencing the power of compound interest, son. It's the most powerful force in this world. And it's the first thing we learned in business school.
isn't there some famous quote that "compound interest is mankinds greatest invention"? (I believe Adam Smith or Albert Einstein - really not sure)
i find it pretty funny actually that you can create such an insane situation, but i think most games are over a lot earlier so this kind of silly scaling doesn't affect the majority of games. i don't think I ever played a game of FE that took more then maybe 250 turns.
though with the new production scaling at game setup, i can see myself playing huge/epic tech/medium [default] production setups for the sheer epicness (i didn't like the old epic setting because it also slowed production down). very long games may become more common with the new huge maps, so it's probably a good idea to limit the maximum amount of extra gold (as Foxcat suggested)
It definitely shouldn't be part of the city's base income. Clearly it should be added after all other effects.
IMHO, it could do something more like give 5% of your empire's total gross income. That would still be a impressive number that scales with the size of your empire, but I don't think it would ever get astronomical.
As others have said it is only compounding so massively because you have already won but choose not to take the victory.
Think about it, you have 2.3 million guilder in the bank. You could have used a fraction of this money to buy troops and steamroller your opponents ages ago. It is only because you haven't that you have so much money.
In a competitive game where the player is struggling on an even footing against the world and the AI they would be spending that money before it could accumulate to any significant level.
In summary, it isn't your 60k income that is unusual, it is the fact that you were winning by so much that you could afford to save 2.3 million that is unusual.
That's a fair point Mistwraithe, I didn't think it that way.
And yes, I purposely dragged the game to test some stuff. I could have won many turns ago.
I suppose you could rush buy Spell of Making towers and win the game.
But overall it's not very OP. Typically if you're dependent on gildar to begin with, you probably spend a lot of it; So your initial gildar bank is pretty low when you start getting 1%g/turn. At least that's what I have found in all my big money Capitar adventures. Maybe what needs to be fixed is that the bonus is multiplied by town/structure bonuses. Other overall bonuses like Research/Faction/Race should increase the amount you gain.
Quantity over Quality for units doesn't always work anyway. In a standard game you wont be able to rush buy full Champion Armour knights and flatten everything from one side of the map to the other (exaggerated example).
Which map is it?
OP is a big Warcraft fan
turn 720... and you have 840 research per turn. You are not doing it right at all
You could get a lot more gold if you just researched Refined Economics (that should take about 2 turns) and you get 10% extra gildar from all your cities including the one with the treasury vault. By turn 720 you could have researched that at least 100 times => 1000% more gold / turn. Using that technique you could have the gold income you're describing by about turn 400
The point you're making is trivial and doesn't warrant a change (if you're being serious, you might be joking). Indeed the game is broken once you get into the ridiculous position of total dominance that you have there, but there are at least 20 things more broken than the Treasury Vault, that is very small beans compared to some really OP strategies that come into effect in the end game.
JJ
Map is called "The Wildlands". The city has catchy unique graphics:
Not really for years, but reaping for large estabilished lore help when you have to name 33 cities
Not really. A game planned to be long was done with all the sliders to the slowest setting (research and production). Now the Refined Economics takes 3 turns researching with 1560 research per turn. But it was still way longer (8-9 turns if I recall good) when I took the first screenshot.
I finished the game at turn 809, with 31 millions in bank and 1 million gildar per turn. If I remove the treasury vault, my gildar per turn becomes 1769. But I could never get it so high without all those money, since (after starting this thread) I tried to found many cities and rush them all to level 3-4 (spamming consulates). The +10% gildar still feels much more balanced.
Still you're right about game not being balanced around long games, and I see my error now after the good input in this thread.
to you for all the work you did to document this stuff. A lot of attention has been poured into analyzing the early game. Almost none has gone into the late game. And it shows in that the game gets pretty shaky towards the end (the first 100 turns are tough, the next 100 turns are challenging, the next 100 turns are pretty easy and after that you're god of the world).
I think that speaks for itself right there. These are the kinds of mistakes of scale (or compound interest) that build upon themselves and make it impossible to play the late game for anything but ROFLStomping.
Oppressive taxes?
Level 5 Fortress can give up to -40% worldwide unrest. When you can spam rush cities, unrest became a non issue.
I think some of you are missing the point and only looking at the super high numbers. Treasury vaults are overpowered the moment you build them. The snowballing starts with much lower numbers, tens and then hundreds, but that's still enough to cover all your expenses and suddenly watch your gold grow more and more rapidly every turn. It might take a long time to get into the millions, but that's not the point, because the moment you build one you can pretty much start ignoring your economy.
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