GunMetalXeno used it to save his fleet against PJI. Other players in game to vouch for veracity of my statement: RandomMap, Kfear, bscompany.
it's hardly a cheat if it is a part of the game, and it means he took time to manualy plot the course.I think it's a shame we don't have Z axis control over building placement.
The z axis is an exploit, this is well established.
We all know its an exploit. I use z axis to exploit the tactical use of z axis. It so happens that you all do not know how to use z axis. I believe this has already been resolved. We all have mixed opinions about z axis. Some of us in sins community do not believe z axis should be used and some of us would like to learn z axis and use them. I can give you few examples of what z axis are good for.
One example is the one i played last night against someone whom i forgot or to protect his innocent identity name, as being both vasari i managed to have his starbase chase after my fleet. By using z axis i was able to maneuver my fleets to the upper section of his planet while his starbase gave chase then by phase jumping in my migrator i was able to get it below the bottom of his planet and build my starbase there. This gave me more than enough time for my sb to be build. The point i'm trying to get to is that z axis is a tactical way point movement that you can use to maneuver your ships. Another example to use z axis against is for those people using mine tactics. It is a shamed that some ships are bond to 2D movement such as mine layers. You can not use z axis to lay mines above the upper portion of your planet. But it is the nature of how you use z axis that gives you a tactical guidance that will avoid your whole fleet from annihilation. some of you may get the idea of what i'm talking about and some of you will not due to your limited lack of tactical exploitation.
As what Wintercross has said, due to the players PJI I had did nothing wrong to cheat during the game. I was simply moving my ships away from PJIs gravity well area of affect to escape from his roid. In a nutshell believe it or not, that would be the same as moving my whole entire fleet to the other side of his roid in 2D plane movement to avoid his PJI. By getting away with his well defended star based roid, It was only then that the only time he managed to accuse me of cheating which in my opinion was un called for and very annoyingly acted like a little kid crying over something that I wasn't suppose to do but yet it is 100% support by the devs of exploiting the z axis movement since it is "part of the game".
If any of the devs states a reply post about the use of z axis then I will respect it and agreed to not use z axis movement. Other than that, I will continue to use z axis until other wise. Hence the game being a 4x RTS meaning that we explore, expand, exploit, and exterminate our opponent any way we can. That being said, z axis is nothing more than an exploited maneuver that i took the time to implement in game.
Z axis is very useful against mine layer tactics, avoiding PJIs, manipulate starbase placements, tactical way point for scouting use, eliminating heavily defended dual star base fortresses and so on.
Any one in here is able to use z axis. Its no secret at all and i think every one should use it to make the game more funner than it already is. We can all add another depth to this game If we all knew how to use it. I'm not a cheater and I intend not to use it if it was a cheat.
To use z axis, simply go to Key Bindings under Global z axis. Bind any button that fits your convenient. To make it easier, I have mines under the letter "D". My z axis has dual use under the D button. D button is by default use of ship or fleet group movement. Press D once for movement then press and hold D again for z axis way point. When you press and hold D, your options to move up or down will be enabled right click to set way point. When you release D you will have another option to set another way point. If your satisfied with how your way point is set just simply right click your mouse. It's that simple.
I feel like i just wrote my whole justification on the use of z axis movement. I hope that every one can learn how to use these type of maneuvers and have fun with them. GG, Good Luck and Good Hunting.
the problem with z-axis is that it obliterates any chance for the tec loyalists. Its way too easy to just avoid the enemy starbases.
In addition, its totally unfair that you can defend by puting all your carriers 1000 miles below the planet while their fighters can attack you.
It's an unnecessary option used to exploit mechanical flaws of the game (immobile starbases can't shoot up or down, AOE work on a 2d plane, etc). It should be disabled in everything but the dev.exe.
the main problem with it is that you can make an unbeatable defense by putting a carrier fleet too far away to get to, while at the same time already having your fighters rampaging among the invaders.
It's not an exploit if everyone can do it, and easily so. Stop complaining and learn to use it yourself......ass.
-AE
An exploit is an unintended use of game mechanics. The fact that SB can't target vertically and that gravity well defenses can only be built on the 2d plane of the well make it an unfair and unrealistic advantage that should not be used. That and 99.9% of the MP player base agrees it should not be used.
See there, I made a point and didnt even have to resort to second grade level name calling. You should try it.
Why are we still discussing this? Why are we still acknowledging trolls like cilverbug? The solution is simple:
BAN PEOPLE WHO ABUSE Z-AXIS
Hosts already do this...we know what trolls use it...the MP community has made its decision....it doesn't need to be discussed any more...
you sir are now officially trolled! i will send a troll and z axis all over your home planet to annihilate you. congratulations. you are now certified trolled!
lol someone woke up o the wrong side of their bed......
It just sounds to me people are upset they got outsmarted.All the 'newb training' posts tell how you should always choose a fleet for defence over static defence... Guess what, fleets can use Z-axis.
It is simply a tactical manuver to outsmart your enemy. If they are relying solely on mines and static defence they deserve to get outsmarted.
Until the devs actualy remove the keybind you cant say that it is cheating because it is part of the game. If you want 'house' rules that say not to use it thats your choice (like how people dont want to play with VR) but calling it cheating just makes you look like a sore loser.
Mr. Wintercross, you sir get a karma for noticing what potentials a z axis can offer.
[quote who="CilverBUG™" reply="13" id="3325852"] Mr. Wintercross, you sir get a karma for noticing what potentials a z axis can offer.[/quote]
Thanks! it is supposed to be 'space' after all, this isn't a WW2 naval simulator... 3 dimensional space should be used, it just makes sense.... checking weapon ranges and everything in the DEV exe shows that weapon ranges and AOE are actualy spherical... its just the range ring shown is 2d.
This is the thing though, this is supposed to be a space sim, but only half of the game is implemented using the z axis... what kind of idiot general would put no guns on the top of a starbase, or build a phase jump inhibitor which cant even reach ANY enemy fleet? it isnt 'outsmarting' your enemy to exploit the fact that if you use z axis most defences are essentially useless. That is akin to saying you are 'outsmarting' your enemy when you 2v1 some poor guy in a free for all. It isnt smart, it is just inevitable.
If you want to play with z axis, might as well remove most of the tech and buildings. I dont see how a tactic/exploit which makes all static defence irrelevant could possibly add anything to the game, as by definition you yourself Cliverbug said it removes static starbases, mines and phase jump inhibitors etc from any sort of competitive play. z axis doesnt even just affect players who relying on it solely, as you make out Wintercross, it makes ANY investment AT ALL totally useless.
Feel free to play games with z-axis, I do not care at all, but make sure everyone in the game knows you will be using it so we can choose to kick you out.
P.S. In response to Cliverbugs misleading point about PJI, the point of a phase jump inhibitor is not just prevent you exiting the system, otherwise it would be global. It is to prevent exit to a specific connected system. In other words, if he had put a phase jump inhib on the opposite side to where you want to go, well, he has wasted it. The idea is to use it to either prevent retreat or prevent scouting, I.E. you place it to OUTSMART your enemy and using the z axis to avoid one is NOT the equivalent to just running to the other side of the system, as like I said earlier, the point is to prevent movement to a specific exit system.
Wintercross, Orkies placed above another faction's SB can shoot with impunity because they are in the "blind spots" of the non-moving SBs...in practice, weapon ranges do not work in all directions equally so please stop proliferating this misinformation...theoretical number checking is just that, theoretical...in practice Sins does not treat all dimensions equally...
You are also wrong that using the z-axis is simply outsmarting your enemy...ALL the skilled players know how to use z-axis effectively, that you are using it is not in any way a sign you are smarter or better than your opponent...
All it means is that you have no respect for an unwritten but well-known rule established by the MP community long ago...this rule is not any different than the common practice of pugging games, going to team 10, naming team games along the lines of "5s" or "5v5", gracefully quitting when you have no chance of winning, etc...it is such a universal "house rule" that it simply does not need to be stated...
All of the game mechanics in Sins suggest it is essentially a 2-D game...structures and TEC mines can only be placed in the 2-D plane...all entity files with weapons have FRONT, BACK, LEFT, and RIGHT...there is no UP or DOWN weapon banks for a reason...weapon and ability ranges are displayed as 2D because that's how the game is meant to be played...ship pathfinding prefers movement in the 2-D plane (though on occasion ships may do otherwise)...
The 3rd dimension of sins is solely for aesthetic purposes...it was not designed to be a major part of the gameplay as exhibited by virtually all of Sin's game mechanics....it does not matter if true 3-D combat is more realistic because Sins is not at all realistic...
You are certainly welcome to get your kicks by trolling people online with your "ingenious" z-axis abuse...and we will enjoy banning you from games...
oh fuck he brought out logic on the internet
they only logic he brought out was the logic of crying about a movement that maybe himself deem too complicated to understand and successfully master. to minimagnus, how do you come in and threaten to ban some one who uses z axis. your puny mind probably thinks that your the only one that can host a game right lmao. do you understand how you really sound like when you let z axis get to you? of course you don't, that's because you don't sleep at night when someone mentions about z axis being used. it's okay to admit that you aren't capable of using z axis and will never fully understand how to use it. not even if you tried to practice you will still lack the brain power to understand the meaning of 3 dimensional movement.
it's okay that none of you here don't want to show your real names on ico games and thats because i would probably kick all you noobs for messing up a skilled game in the first place. the ones that are here complaining about z axis i'm sure are the ones that are more likely to be kicked in a 5v5 skilled game. oh well, i guess i'll have a lot of kicking to do if ever you trolls decide to show your names around on ico. you guys should know my other names by now. feel free to cry since it is your right to show your sensitivity over a movement that is quit a mystery for you young kids to understand.
this is getting interesting...
(waiting for seleucias reply)
Whelp, guess I will be replying first, although I realise at this point after the incomprehensibly of Cliverbugs last post there is probably very little point.
Cliver, I never threatened to ban anyone, I just said if you come into a game and want to use the z axis then let people know. I never said I would ban you, if you can find players who agree that z-axis is indeed a clever and interesting tactic then by all means play with them. If not, please be courteous to others and express your opinion on the z axis before the game.
Also, considering how difficult that last post was to read... U mad bro? If you calm down, it is only a game and there is no need to be nasty. It also makes you sound quite juvenile and is unlikely to convert any readers to your way of thinking (as we both know that none of us are going to change our mind, we are obviously trying to convince other people who read this thread).
I look forward to trying to understand your future response to this and/or Seleuceia's reply.
Minimagnus
Dear sir,
Your post has no grammar. Therefore, it cannot be called english and it shall be dubbed mud instead. Seeing as this forum is mostly done in english, please refrain from speaking mud in future as it is neither english nor an internationally recognized language.
Sincerely,
Lord Brony
ok sir lord english grammar teacher. you worry about correcting my english than the point i made. i assure you the linguistic morphology and syntax of my written context are all in place as it should be. as for capitalizing the first letter of the beginning on every sentence i write should also concern you. you and your little pony friends can not comprehend the meaning of z axis. that would be like asking a scientist if he believes in pegasus the flying horse. who gave you that name anyways, Lord Brony? lmao sounds like a pile of horse shit if you ask me. give it up, z axis is and will always be here as long as the game is around and i don't think you'll have the power to get rid of it. if you know the history about rts games, z axis was also used in homeworld games. i'm sure you also knew that
Homeworld was actually 3D in its battle environment, sins is not. The only thing you are convincing people here of is to never play with you. Grow up.
no offense mr book but if its in the game and if it doesn't sync or crash the game then i will use it whenever i feel the need to use it. you've seen me play and not once you've seen me use z axis. i use it for emergency purposes and cheap players who use mine layer tactics.
as long as it is usable in sins universe, i will rest my arguements in the hands of the developers who gave optional access to z axis. in english terms for those of you who do not understand english, it is there and its an option to have it turned on or off which is a choice not a requirement. case closed
I didn't think it possible but your petty and arrogant attitude is quickly earning you a special place in my heart right normally reserved for JakeMac.
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