I've been searching for different information on the Coronata Titan and never really found a good thread that wasn't a year old. I'm just wondering what everyone elses opinion is about the coronata titan honestly I love the Advent Loyalist but hate that titan half the time I don't even build it and just take the 2 caps and 150 supply for more bombers.
Here's what i think...
1. Subjugation - I like the idea but honestly it doesn't seem like it mind controls all the much and when it does it just spends most of the time messing up my fleet crafting rather then helping me. I've seen that more levels increases the percentage to MC but really 15% doesn't seem like a lot and really doesn't help much when the titan only shoots capitals
2. Suppression - I love this ability and its probably the second best reason to use the titan having a 40% debuff is nice but it sucks that it doesn't affect strike craft unless you affect the host of that strike craft.
3. Unity Mass - With the recent buff to this skill I'm happy to say I'm more inclined to use my titan this is actually the one skill i love about this ship
4. Repossesion - the only problem i have with this ability is that it takes away population, upgrades, buildings and builders which is mostly annoying. I'd like to see it actually do what the tool tip says although i do like that i can capture things in the middle of culture
Honestly I'm just looking for opinions and what people think. This titan seems a bit lack luster compared to the other 5 titans out there and really needs a revamp or some skill changes. At least something to put it on par with the other titans.
Also its been said a million times but since it hasn't changed yet it needs to be said...take away titan levels when they die it makes no sense to have them keep them and it certainly makes the AR titan way OP. Also add a selection to turn supers off in game
4. Repossesionarea affect capture ability that flips enemy planet and all enemy structures to your faction, then 60s population growth and 75% cost reduction on planet upgrades.
Yes, Titan level retention is idiotic, but it's just a feature now.
Not sure what the Repossesion thing is about, I think that is what the tool top says and it takes a lot longer then 60 s for population growth and doesn't have the 75% reduction, at level 2 it only has 33%
and they've been saying that it is just a feature since beta and it hasn't changed yet so I'm wondering if stardock intends for it to stay in, i hope not
Honestly this seems like a contradiction to me. Culture is just two weak a gameplay mechanic in unmodded Sins to give the Loyalists much advantage, so a huge chunk of their bonuses amounts to hardly anything in a competitive setting. That leaves them with a few good combat techs, like Fury of the Unity, a modest economic boost from global unity, and a defensive one from Coward's submission. And while I won't say you can't win or there aren't players who prefer these kind of things, it just doesn't compare to jumping starbases or even Truce Amongst Rogues.
The Coronata on the other hand is actually alright now that they've buffed Unity Mass (even if it doesn't have mass frigate destruction power). It's tough to kill, and has perhaps the best single target damage output in the game, which is vital for destroying enemy titans quickly. Combined with that combat research and capitalships like the Rapture, AL fleets by far have the most tanking power of any faction. However, the mass AoE potential of other factions titans can overpower this, and the Vorasta's Maw in particular is an instant kill, making damage reduction debuffs pointless.
I view subjugation as a chance to instantly kill enemy frigates when they get hit by weapons, and emergency power up for unity mass, or just a nice way to rebuild your fleet if your enemy is throwing frigates at you for some reason. It's not bad but it can be situation. And if you don't like getting random ships, I don't think AL is the faction for you.
A feature means that's part of the game design. It won't be changing, but I've made a mod that more or less changes that.
I can't agree with this. Suppression Aura doesn't affect strikecraft, AoE ability damage, or corvettes. Those are the three main sources of late game damage.
The Rapture's Vertigo omits the same damage sources. The Advent Loyals are the tankiest faction only against types of damage which are almost entirely absent from the late game. Realistically speaking the defenses you've listed do nothing against for example a fleet consistant of an AoE-damage titan, some support frigates, and a fleet of carriers fielding bombers. Which is basically the standard late game fleet.
Also the Coronata levels up slower then any other titan. Sure it can get 50% exp from conversions- but other titans can wipe out whole fleets of frigates quickly with AoE for 100% exp. Not to mention the converted frigate is going to give the enemy titan 100% exp(more then it gave the coronata for converting it) if it gets caught up in the enemy titan's AoE death zone. In a game where a high level titan can spell victory, a slower leveling speed is a pretty big disadvantage.
Don't get me wrong, the Unity Mass buff has been great for the Coronata, but it's kind of a one-trick pony at present that lacks the basic tools most titans are built around. The Ragnarov is still capable of dishing out more singletarget DPS at most stages of the game and it has strong AoE capability and levels quickly.
You've mentioned this enough that I went and looked it up. I agree. I almost think the advent titans hull leveling is swapped. I also noticed that it's the only one with a backwards-only gun.
They still have the highest shield mitigation of any faction fully teched, and the guardians and Progenitors are as good as always. I'm not saying they're great for online for those very reasons but on a fleet tanking power I don't see anyone else that comes close.
Well I will say when facing a non-Vasari titan, unity mass got a big boost from the fact Corvettes count to boost the damage of unity mass. I'm pretty sure in a not unreasonable Coronata + 50 corvettes VS a Ragnarov + 50 corvettes scenario Unity Mass will out DPS snipe. And Unity Mass already has much higher antimatter efficiency.
What exactly do you mean by this?
Perhaps they are the tankiest technically by virtue of having an extra 2% potential shield mitigation. that said, my main point is that the Advent rebels come very close. The only real defensive edge the advent loyals have on them that really matters is an extra 2% shield mitigation. Moreover that one benefit gets stripped pretty much as soon as a vasari opponent comes into play(phase missiles make shield mitigation unimportant for damage to capitalships and both vasari titans ahve methods of entirely circumventing the tankiness of advent frigates/corvettes). So right there that's 3 of the 5 other factions against whom the advent loyal's tankiness is nothing special.
My original point was merely that very little of that tankiness come from the tools unique to the advent loyals. A vast majority is an intrinsic part of the advent as a whole.
Yes, one ability for another this is true. I'm not contesting Unity Mass is strong, but let's look at the picture as a whole.
The Ragnarov can deal about 90 more single target DPS with it's weapon systems right out of the gate. in the 25 seconds unity mass is cooling down, that's 2250 extra damage, after rank 1 suppression aura 1800 damage. As the ragnarov level up or ranks up it's weapon upgrade that difference will grow larger)for example even if both ships gain +20% damage, the gap also grows by 20%). That gap will grow much faster then the debuff on suppression aura grows.
Additionally it's long range means it's much easier for snipe to hit enemies when their shield mitigation is still low low then unity mass(the Coronata's weapon systems ourange unity mass and hit 4 targets of which the player can only choose 1, so the weapon systems often cap the target's shield mitigation before unity mass can be fired even once. The same goes for the Ragnarov's Railgun, which deals 1000 damage and tends to be it's first weapon to hit. All i nall the Ragnarov's single target damage is much better at frontloading before the target's shield mitigations raises.
Also the Ragnarov's armor reduction is nothing to scoff at for focus potential.
All that considered, the ragnarov is very much on par with the Coronata in terms of single target damage output. And again, the Ragnarov also has a ton of AoE fleet killing ability rather then being a one-trick pony.
There's nothing wrong with Unity Mass- It's just that unlike the Ragnarov, single target damage is all the Coronata really has going for it.
Quoting bilun, reply 5Sure it can get 50% exp from conversions- but other titans can wipe out whole fleets of frigates quickly with AoE for 100% exp. I know. Again if I could do press for anything to be changed in hindsight, I would strongly insist on titans not leveling up from normal XP, but what can you do? The only thing is it does work on Corvettes, so converting them might be worthwhile to use immediately on the enemy titan.
Well to be fair, the Coronata's slow leveling speed could very easily be addressed by increasing the exp % given by converted enemeis.
Again I'm not sure we disagree on as much as our debate my imply. I'm mostly just a little sick of hearing about "the advent loyal's defensive advantages" which are so often cited when practically speaking in real games they don't really exist in any great propensity. They gain an extra 2% shield mitigation late game as compared to their rebel counterparts, a form of defense which an entire race circumvents.
"Fleet tanking power" is a relative term...especially when a "fleet" is a lone VL titan with overseers...
Also, Unity Mass should do chaining damage...
The AL titan starts with slightly more hull than the AR titan, but gains less hull per level. The AR titan also has more shields, shields per level and armor. Why would the AL titan start with slightly more hull, but by 3rd level fall behind? that doesn't make sense and makes me think they got mixed up.
You have to put 3-4 points into it, but when you do it can have a pretty big effect. The key is to use it (if you can) on more durable ships like carriers. And if you don't like the ships you get, scuttle them for credits and resources after the battle.
In my mind, this ability's best quality is that it slows the enemy ships down and keeps them from moving out of range of the Coronata. I.e. keeps the carriers in range for Subjugation or the capitals in range for Unity Mass.
Unity Mass murders capital ships. It really hurts now.
I actually like this ability but do agree with you about keeping the planet upgrades. It actually can make the Planet for a Planet tech valuable if you "flip" the planet at the beginning of the battle and your enemy bombs it back out. It can also be useful when raiding to flip the planet and then retreat after you have researched Coward's Submission. In this case you enemy is going to lose ships if he comes after you. And if your enemy is the TL, it can be used to quickly remove their Militia Armor and Firepower bonuses.
Thank you Sel- been too long since I've heard you say that
I love the feedback and I'm playing around with more and more things, but even with 4 points in the Subjigation I never see any real significance in MC, i still only gain maybe 4 or 5 ships in a big battle
Overall it doesn't seem like there is any real reason to play AL over AR except for early game culture and the two abilities of the titan
Also feature or not, the titan's keeping their levels just makes no sense there is no reason they should and it makes losing them not that bad as long as you deal enough damage to an enemy fleet that they can't just jump in and murder your defenses your fine
I don't know why they did it that way in the first place, but it is defended by saying in multiplayer games, if titans lost their levels, the game would degenerate into "The last one who loses their titan wins" games. Because if two players have level 7 titans, and one gets destroyed and the player has to rebuild it at level 1, that player likely lost the game regardless of how much better his economy was or any other factor.
All else being equal, seeing as single players can change their experience with mods while multiplayer is stuck with the default for the most part, I have to say it's probably the lesser of two evils.
I don't really believe that I've held off titans before both in Multiplayer and SP with Hard or above computers micro managing my defenses for a planet. Noted the AR titan ulti is a super bitch but you do what you can.
I get why they had it to begin with because they needed a way to successfully test titans and if it loses its level you wouldn't get honest dated for high level titans. but that aside if it stays then its almost just a race to get the titan and turns the game into "Titans R us", wich the AR titan being friggen walmart.
Sorry for the ad but if you want a good Coronata, try my mod:
http://www.moddb.com/mods/crazy/downloads/crazy-292
An update is coming soon, but I think that's enough to test
Simon/TheyCallMeProphet
The Coronata can be a beast, but I wouldn't put any points at all into Subjegating ass-ault. Put your first points into Suppression and Durability and hit the pirate base. Micro it into the middle of the pirates out of range of the turrets (you may need to coax them out to the edge a bit). Then put points in suppression, unity mass, durability and AM (maybe one point in weapons).
The main problem is it needs to be micro'd to be effective as Suppression Aura's range is laughably low at all levels. You need to throw this titan into the middle of their fleet and pound on them with your fleet from the edge. And you'll need a big fleet without any AOE damage on this titan.
Synergize with a Halcyon (energy weapon boost) and Rapture (ship cripple) and your fleet can do some serious damage to frigate based fleets. These capitals can also transition for late game carrier synergies.
this never gets old but malice does 30% of it.
I got it...let's put malice on the Coronata instead of repossession...Prog can have, you know, like, martyrdom or something..
Well, that would put the Progenitor slightly above being entirely worthless against Vasari.
Thats how i build mine unless i'm trying a mind control build and i run with an extra rapture in my grouping, but I've had more success building the coronata for tank/dps and them micro its movement to maximize suppression. Also question wouldn't combining the AoE ability from the Progenitor make Unity Mass technically and AoE
technically yes, but it's not titan quality AoE. The absolute most important things that makes Titan AoE a gamechanger are that
a). it's consistently valuable(decent cooldowns, good areas, no wierd timing/aiming/interrupt conditions that make them unreliable)
b ). It is un-target-capped. it doesn't matter how many frigates your opponent builds, the titan will counter them in close quarters just the same.
The progen combo is limited in a and absolutely fails to fufill b.
For 'point a' it requires you to start progen, to keep that progen alive(if it dies you lose your aoE potential), and lastly for the progen to be present. It's much easier to force a progen to retreat thena titan. And for most races you need to force the titan to retreat to stop the AoE.
Additionally since Malice damage is post mitigation the amount of AoE can be unreliable. If even a rank 4 unity mass hits a capitalship with 65% shield mitigation, even assuming no armor is involved unity mass will only deal 6750*.35*.75=1771 damage which results in only 531 damage propagated- not so impressive for a titan AoE. Incidentally the best case scenario for unity massing a capitalship is 6750*.75*.83*.3=1260 damage. I'm not saying it will always be 531- merely noting the unreliability of the damage which relates to 'point a' directly.
As for 'point b' the combo will hit at most 28 targets. If your progen is lower level even fewer.
All that said I'm not saying the Coronata should be an AoE monster. that would spoil it's unique identity. I'm merely establishing why it simply does not fufill the anti-frigate component of a titan's role. As a result it either needs tools to counter frigates harder or needs some additional combat potential other titans lack to make up for it's deficiency.
The first could be accomplished by buffing Subjugating Assault to a point where it's worth using. The second could be accomplished by making repossession less circumstantial and allowing SUppression Aura to affect one of the major late game damage sources like strikecraft or corvettes.
Vasari: I can kill all of you with my phase missiles
Advent: I can kill all of you with my mind
Tec: I spam
1. lol
2. Would it be ridiculous or a good idea to maybe make all the aura based skills well wide, noted maybe toning them down to compensate for getting the huge range
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