I've been encountering a strange problem when attempting to trade resources for three-figure sums of Gildar in diplomacy.
To explain via example- I might have 40 Metal I'm willing to trade, which the diplo screen informs me is worth 200 Gildar once I place it on the trade table. If I try to ask for 200 Gildar from the AI in a single lump sum however, the AI will instead suddenly value its money as some ridiculous number, often > 6,000. If I cancel the trade, the incredibly high AI price often remains, blocking any other possible deals until I completely exit the trading dialogue. The bug seems tied to asking for any sum of Gildar much over 100- it's fine to ask for 200 Gildar over the course of four 50 Gildar transactions, but not all at once.
I can post a screencap of the issue in action if needed.
Edit- fixed some grammatical issues for clarity.
What is their relationship to you? If they are hostile, they will demand trades like that. Get them more friendly and it will get more reasonable. It could be related to something like that.
Do you have a screencap of your faction relations screen, where it shows the sovereign's personality? Some of them have traits like "ridiculously overvalues X" (not sure of the exact phrasing).
I took some screencaps to demonstrate the issue more clearly:
In the first picture, I want to trade some metal to this custom faction leader for Gildar. You can see that the AI values my metal as being worth a reasonable sum.
For the next stage in the trade, I request 150 Gildar for my compensation.
And here's the first stage of the bug. I wouldn't be surprised if the AI valued its Gildar over the face value, but this is absurd.
This is the second stage of the bug. Even after I remove the AI Gildar from the trade table, the ludicrous payment demand remains, sans 300 Gildar (possibly the amount the AI actually wants?) The 7,200 Gildar figure persists until I select "I'd like to talk about something else", making any further deals impossible.
I had considered that the AI might simply be over-valuing its Gildar to an incredible extent, but it's not- I can complete the trade by asking for two-figure sums, accomplishing it through installments. The trigger seems to be requesting Gildar in excess of 100.
Has no one else encountered this problem?
I think this is due to a new change where the AI values its exchanges based on how much it has. In this case, because you're trying to get all of its gold, so it's valuing it higher than normal. If the AI had a lot of gold, it would be willing to buy your resources in more reasonable exchange rates, but since it doesn't have much, the mechanic kicks in to prevent you from robbing it of the precious few it does have.
I don't think it's a bug. They don't want you using the diplomacy system to cripple the AI.
Also, for what it's worth, that is not the right screens.
When you click the "Govern" button, you should have on your right a "Foreign Relations" screen, and in that screen you will have an option to select each faction you have contacted. It's that screen that has the details about the AI's personality. (You also have a "Speak To" option from that screen which will take you to the screens you showed.)
I don't think dumping all your gold for iron when you're at war with 3 people (probably losing) is the smartest idea. Unless you are actively trying to purchase the iron because you need it.
This is absolutely, certainly a bug, and a major one at that. Here are more screencaps to further demonstrate the issue.
Here you can see that requesting all of an AI's Gildar when they are at war does not cause them to massively overvalue it.
The issue also isn't only caused by asking for all of an AI's Gildar- here I have requested under half, but still am met with an insane demand. The problem also isn't that the AI has some plan requiring large amounts of Gildar, and therefore refuses to trade away its stockpile- I can complete this trade in four 50-Gildar installments. The next two pictures should make the bug as clear as I ever can:
The AI considers this trade eminently acceptable.
Delete the 100 Gildar figure, type in 110 instead, and the AI freaks out. This is a bug.
In addition to the above, like I noted earlier there is a second, related issue-
Once you have encountered the bug, the massive AI Gildar request remains on the table, preventing further deals until you exit the trade dialogue.
Please test it for yourselves if you still doubt that this is a problem. I am disappointed that FE has such a major flaw in a very basic aspect of diplomacy.
Here's the screen I was speaking of (though I am not seeing the level of detail here that I am used to, and I am not sure if that's a 1.1 thing or something to do with the state of my game):
Uploaded with [URL=http://imageshack.us]ImageShack.us[/URL]
Anyways, once upon a version, it used to display the other sovereign's AI traits, and some of them were things like "values X 10 times to much", and this would be on top of scarcity issues which can increase value by a factor of 2 (or maybe higher).
So... it's disappointing that they did not give us a way of simply determining if this was deliberate, but the example screen shots you have shown seem to fit the "10x" AI trait, where the AI values its own stuff much too highly.
Thumps up to all the screen shots from MR Dej...
Hope this gets looked upon, I see at least 1 confirmed bug with these things, and one mishap in the behaviour of the AI calculations. (probably the same bug though).
Sincerely~ Kongdej
Consider this, the very first entry in AITraitTypes.xml:
<AITraitType InternalName="Isolationist"> <DisplayName>Isolationist</DisplayName> <Description>AI values its treaties as being 10x more than normal</Description> <Icon>FactionAbility_Traits.png</Icon> </AITraitType>
I am sure that this isn't an AI personality quirk- as I noted three times previously, the AI is perfectly willing to trade me 200 Gildar for 40 metal or whatever, provided I ask for the Gildar in four 50 Gildar trades. It's only when I ask for >100 Gildar that the AI bugs out and recalculates its Gildar as being worth thousands.
I may have had the same bug. In negotiations, whenever I ask more than what they're offering (simply because I am still adding resources from both sides of the screen), they suddenly demand ~3489 points, even though they didn't bring anything new to the table.
I just exit the screen and do it again, making sure I start with all my resources first.
I can think of several ways that that could be happening, including some ways that fit with the personality quirk.
It all boils down to the AI -- how it assigns values to things, what it thinks it needs, and what it thinks it does not need, and how those needs are expressed in code.
But, also, if the programming team thinks a 10x factor makes sense in a personality trait -- to represent not wanting to deal with people, is it really so difficult to imagine that they might use something similar in other contexts?
Boy that custom faction sure knows how to haggle.
I'm not sure you understand. Even if the AI is assigning a 10x value to its Gildar (which I do not believe is the case- the math doesn't add up in the screencaps, and it makes no sense for the game to have several AI unwilling to trade the most basic of resources), resource-for-Gildar trades are still bugged. If it is intended that the player should not be able to take large amounts of an AI's money, then I shouldn't be able to take 200 Gildar by making four trades for 50 Gildar each, which as I have said again and again players are free to do. The issue only appears when you type a sum of Gildar >100 in the trade window. If how the game handles trades right now is intentional, then this is an episode of monstrously poor game design. I prefer to believe it is simply bad coding
And yet, for example, you do not have any influence to trade. Only Gilden had some influence and that was almost none.
This suggests to me that you have been playing multiple games without any influence building (so much so that the AIs are copying you).
But influence has a huge effect on negotiations.
That said, note that after you select "I'd like to talk about something else" you can propose further trades.
Hey Stardock, any word on this? It's sort of an issue that you can't do three-figure Gildar trades. That this bug has apparently gone unreported for so long has some sorry implications for how often players use the trade table.
There are many great features available to you once you register, including:
Sign in or Create Account
