Which of the Missile Frigates is best? Also, which of the two Building-Busters is best?
Building buster is obvious: ogrov
Any planet module can be killed quick enough with bombers or anti-module ships (regardless of which one you pick), so the only thing that really matters is how the anti-module ship performs against SBs...here, the ogrov clearly wins....
Yes, the adjudicator can shoot three things at once...but odds are you aren't shooting at 3 SBs (and if you are, I pity you), so the superior focus firing capability of the ogrov is what makes it the best....it simply kills SBs faster than adjudicators, and that's really all you care about...
As for missile frigate, it depends....
When upgraded, the phase missiles on the kanrak make it the best LRF for killing caps and titans, especially Advent...
While corvettes are still on the field, the illuminator is exceptionally strong because it fairs the best against the LRF counters (corvettes and flak)...
In general, LRMs are probably the best...they don't have the FFing potential that kanraks do, but they still do lots of damage against high priority targets and have better range...they aren't as resilient against their counters (Corvettes and flak) as illuminators are, but against HCs or other LRFs they fair the best...
LRMs have the right combination of fleet capability, lab requirements, and focus firing capability...the only disadvantage with them is that per fleet supply they build much slower than illuminators and kanraks...
Hmmm. Don't phase missiles bypass shields?
Also, could you post the stats for these ships?
Yes, they do. That is why they are so murderous against Advent. When it comes to pure firepower, the Kanrak outclasses both LRM and Illuminator
Check the Wiki:
https://www.sinsofasolarempire.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page
As Sel has mentioned, Illuminators are great to deal with fleets of many light ships. However, focusing on them to much is a very risky strategy as the first hard target does counter them.... hard.
Kanraks are deadly troughout the later stages of the game... even a small hunting pack of those will simple pulverise even high level Advent Capital ships.
LRM are very fragile but are cheap.... so its cheap firepower and should be used just that way.
Base Stats:
LRM: 500 Hull, 280 Shields, 1 Armor, 11 avg damage
Illuminator: 620 Hull, 550 Shields, 2 Armor, 18 avg damage
Kanrak: 600 Hull, 360 Shields, 2 Armor, 13 avg damage
Fully upgraded stats:
TEC Rebel LRM: 650 Hull, 336 Shields, 8 armor, 17 avg damage, Cluster Warheads ability
TEC Loyalist LRM(militia buffs active): 650 Hull, 336 Shields, 12 Armor, 21 avg damage, Cluster Warheads ability
TEC Loyalist LRM(militia buffs not active): 650 Hull, 336 Shields, 8 Armor, 16 avg damage, Cluster Warheads ability
Advent Loyalist Illum: 806 Hull, 715 Shields, 7 Armor, 28 avg damage, +6% shield mitigation, Deceptive Illusion ability
Advent Rebel Illum: 806 Hull, 715 Shields, 7 Armor, 26 avg damage, +4% shield mitigation, Deceptive Illusion ability
Vasari Loyalist Kanrak: 780 Hull, 432 Shields, 8 Armor, 16 avg damage, 30% shield bypass, Discharging Missiles ability
Vasari Rebel Kanrak: 930 Hull, 486 Shields, 13 Armor, 19 avg damage, 30% shield bypass, +2% shield mitigation, Discharging Missiles ability
I did not list shield and hull regen, do you need them as well?
Thanks Draco.
I do not have to have the other stuff, I am just trying to find out which is better. Overall. If you want to give me the other stats, you can, but it is not necessary.
How much of a difference is there between them?
Illum is somewhat uncomparable with the Kanrak and LRM.
Unlike the Vasari and TEC, the Illum is better at getting into the thick of things since it can fire all around rather than just through the front. A large number of illums can essentially park themselves in the middle of a fleet with a Progen or some Guardians and rip a fleet to shreads.
Someone just posted a thread containing a self-crafted spreadsheet in which you can see a lot of ingame stats and compare them easily. I figured it would hold the answers you seek as well Lupus, so here you go:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkXcxk3JQI55dFl3M1lvYUI3aGRqQkZzV3lPTzhKcHc#gid=0
I would like to point out that knowing the in-game stats isn't going to do you any good other than determine the focus firing potential (where late game kanraks obviously win)...
What you really need to do is fleet battles to see which ships perform the best...you will find that in pure LRF vs. LRF battles, the LRMs easily win on a per fleet supply basis...when it comes to dealing the corvette/flak combos, the illuminators generally fair the best on a per fleet supply basis....when it comes to sniping caps and titans, kanraks (when considering weapon upgrades) perform the best....
Simple stats won't indicate that because HP, shield/hull ratios, armor, tech upgrades, range, turning rates, etc all affect their performance in complex ways that you just can't understand by looking at the stats...you want to know which are the best, do fleet battles in the dev.exe...
In my experience, LRMs are generally the best...they fair better in fleet battles than kanraks, and they have better focus firing than illuminators, giving you a nice compromise....
Dev.exe?
It is another .exe that is located in the Sins directory...this thread should help you...
tbh Illuminators are not lrm's. There medium ranged tanks that you drive into the middle of enemy fleets and wreck havoc. When upgraded they completely decimate all armor types and are insanely powerful compared to the other 2.
Kanrak vs the javelis is a more accurate comparison.
In any given situation i would think the javelis is supreme due to its superior price and strength in numbers. A pro tec player would simply outgun a vasari player 2 to 1 and have an insane range advantage.
The ability of them being able to snipe caps is just a perk. A pro player would send his fleet first to reduce kanraks numbers and leave there cap behind. Once his done that then he approaches numbers that are not snipe capable.\
I'd also like to point out that advents frigates are more powerful than the other 2 races by design.
They take the crown for best light frigate and best flak.
Nope they are not. Illuminators do poorly against larger ships of any type and unless you have vast numerical superiority you will suffer severe losses. Even a medium upgraded Orkulus will spell doom for well over 100 Illuminators. I know, because I had an Advent attacking me yesterday with exactly that. He continued spamming trough, until he had arround 200 illuminators.He assaulted me again with a Titan and 6 capital ships added to his huge fleet.
All I got was:
Orky
8 Capital Ships
20 carriers
10 Enforcers
A Titan 2 levels lower than his.... and no... not Maw ready.
Guess who won? To be fair, I lost quite a lot of my fleet... but that was at best half the money he spent on those 200 destroyed illuminators.
I dont find the Illuminator worthy of its money. Coming at tech 3, it enters the fray at a time other people soon will think about fielding the large and mean things. And against those, the Illuminator is little more than an - albeit lovely - lightshow. If your enemy keeps spamming frigates, they are fine. Against anything else.... idk.
I also disagree about your suggestion to avoid Kanrak sniping. If there is a cloud of 60 Kanraks approaching, you either withdraw your capital ships out of the system immediatly or you say goodbye to said capital ships. Dont even think that a halfway skilled Vasari player will bother with your fleet until those caps are dead. Not to mention that there is nothing stopping him from escorting those 60 Kanraks with the rest of his main fleet. So you can either retreat your caps and titan to safety and watch how the rest of your fleet is massacred by his fleet + caps + titan or you just keep on pressing the attack with your entire fleet.
Which for TEC, usually works.... as I have mentioned in another topic nothing beats thick stubborn armor when it comes to dealing with phase missiles. That TEC does not suffer half as hard from lost capital ships as Advent does certainly help too.
For Advent however, you can pretty much either retreat or write off both cap and titan...
Even if you manage to stop 20 of the 60 Kanraks before they get into weapons range..... the remaining 40 will still pulverize your capships within seconds.
I agree about the LRM. A single Javelis is a very fragile vessel, but the TEC can field impressive numbers of those in no time. And after you get more than a few dozens, they start to hurt like hell.
I realize that the Disciple is slightly more cost effective than the other LF, but what makes the Defense Vessel superior compared to other flak?
It has more firepower for roughly the same cost and HP as gardas...
Thank you.
i can see where this conversation is going..lol.
Anyway its best i ask you questions than tell you...
1. Who said your cap has to be in the same gravity well?
let me guess... you played vs the ai and your probably saying just how stupid the ai is not being able to micro so ends up using only the front beam cannon to assault targets and has not upgraded its forces to survive abilities and titans [sigh]?
You also have no respect for beams and there damage effect when 2 or more banks are firing when many single targets could be hit by multiple beam banks in a microed situation compared to a focus fire attack. Your not aware that the resulting effect is an AOE type beam damage effect that doesn't kill units 1 at a time but can wipe fleets very quickly?
its nice how ai and noob games give you the opportunity to build all this. Im so proud of you having fun.
Did you enjoy yourself?
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