So, I have put much time and energy into playing the game for the sole purpose of examining the balance in Sins of a Solar Empire: Rebellion. Here are my findings:
Race Balance:
TEC: Overall, I am fairly pleased with how the TEC has emerged into Rebellion. Currently, Both the TEC Rebels have their fare share of advantages and drawbacks. At the end of the day, I believe that the TEC Rebels have a slight edge on the TEC Loyalists. This is because I generally think that the TEC Rebel Titan is more effective at killing corvette spam when used with proper micro. The Loyalists do not give enough advantage for an eco start. I almost wish that instead of easier access to the Novalith cannons, the TEC Loyalists would have cheaper trade ports (750 credits, 100 metal, 125 crystal). I get that the TEC Loyalist is designed to be mainly defensive and a superweapon focus, but from a lore standpoint and a game standpoint this does not make much sense to me at all. If they are the Loyalists, why are they digging in if their race is in rebellion? Shouldn't they be the aggressors trying to reunite their race? Seems backwards to me, maybe I'm crazy.
Bottom Line: TEC Loyalists should be the one subfaction that gets cheaper trade ports for an enhanced eco start. Based on my observation and discussion with other top tier players, TEC Rebels seems to be the more popular of the two subfactions.
Advent: I think Advent is the outright weakest faction overall, and the Advent Loyalist subfaction is simply pathetic. The Advent Loyalist titan is terrible, and they only have 1 unique tier 8 tech, and it is pretty pathetic. Damage boost in culture? Really? That's what you have to look forward to late game as the Advent Loyalists, I mean that's it. You look at other races like the Vasari whose subfactions have unique tier 7 weapons upgrades that give MASSIVE damage boosts, and the Advent Loyalists have only a feeble 5% damage boost in its own culture. Amazingly, the Advent Rebels have 0 unique tier 8 techs, and are still better than the Advent Loyalists, simply on the merit of their titan alone. I just don't understand how the other factions and sub factions could get such cool end tier stuff, and an Advent player has almost nothing new to look forward too.
Bottom Line: Part of what made Advent playable in Diplomacy was it's advantage in the "tier 0" or immediate early game, where the combination of disciples, scouts, and defense vessels was pretty mean. Now, everybody can get corvettes easily and the Advent lost it's early game advantage. It is now the weakest in the early game, mid game, and late game, and the combination of those three means that, yep you guessed it, the weakest over all. I used to like to go random, but rolling advent is such a disadvantage that I don't do it anymore. I would suggest:
Vasari: I seriously just don't know what the developers were thinking when they developed the Vasari for Rebellion. This race badly needed some beta adjustments that it never got because the beta was unplayable with minidumps and desyncs. The Vasari Loyalists and Rebels come in ranking #1 and #2 respectively of all of the subfactions. The Vasari Loyalists are so terribly broken with "Strip to the Core" that most hosts with the slightest desire for balance ban players from choosing Vasari. There is almost nothing good about the ability. It takes away late game strategy by destroying planets logistic slots and gives way too many resources and credits. More on this and how to fix it in the bottom line. The Vasari Rebels are awesome, but due to the sheer brokenness of the Loyalists, they are overshadowed. The Moving Starbases, massive late game phase missiles makes this race a huge competitor.
Bottom Line:The Vasari are overpowered. Not just a little bit, they are broken. I really can't think of many disadvantages besides having to make two weapons labs to research the early game corvettes, but even this is hardly a disadvantage. So many changes need to be made I will break the "what needs to be done" into two sections.
For the Loyalists:
For the Rebels:
Overall:
Ship Balance:
Flak: These ships should never have been nerfed as badly as they were. The reason corvettes seem overpowered is that the best counter, Flak, got nerfed into oblivion. I think the Flak need to be buffed again, and then the corvette spam will meet its match quicker and there won't be massive battles of 200 corvettes vs 200 corvettes.
Corvettes: I don't really like corvettes, but I am getting used to them. I think they are too good at countering too many dfiferent kinds of ships. The only ships that I tihnk they are really weak against is flak, but they counter pretty much every other kind of ship out there. I propose:
Comments, Criticism, Insults are welcome.
[DT] Radioactive.
Honestly I think this is just people not realizing how much better they've gotten, combined with the fact you need six military labs to get it and its healing ability. If you have the infrastructure to afford it at least one for your titan goes a long way, and I usually ensure at least 1 per capitalship in a fleet late game. Its just not a huge priority to rush too.
The ability requires that a core be radioactive to power the reaction and molten for the titan to siphon it off. The planet's metal-crystal ratio also needs to be within a certain range; otherwise the procedure either wouldn't work or would actually blow the titan up.
so good?
Um, what would determine the core's radioactiveness and moltenness?
Hey guys. Let me settle this for you all. Forget the fucking lore, and just get this shit balanced.
Short answer: heat from radioactive decay causes moltenness.
less-short answer: here
i try to include the lore to rally around the single player people to approve of much needed balance edits. think of it as pork barrel spending.
It does seem a bit pointless to strip an asteroid when all that leaves you with is another asteroid so restricting use of Stripped does make sense. This tech should still work on Volcanics and Ice planets though.
For the VL Titan, The Maw is not OP because it only targets ships within a cone and only works against a stationary blob of ships. Desperation should probably be reworked. Also, I think it is a complete waste that it does not benefit from Plasma Wave Cannon research.
The only changes that the Revelation really need is reduced AM cost for Clairvoyance also, Guidance should provide a weapon range and RoF increase when used on friendly cap ships, SBs and Titans.
For the Advent Rebels, Mass Communion should not just decrease the cost of culture buildings, it should also make all of a player's culture buildings generate a small amount of income, giving the Advent a much needed economic boost. Shield Restore for the Temple of Renewal should be a passive ability and or be moved to the repair station. The Advent Rebels are mostly fine. However, they have 1 less technology compared to any other faction so the gap could be filled by an additional damage tech for pulse lasers.
For the Advent Loyalists, Fury of the Unity should give an overall 10% damage increase without the need to be in friendly culture and should be a tier lower and and or moved to the Hostility Tree. This combined with Ancient Retribution means that the Advent Loyalists wouldn't need a unique weapon upgrade. Planet for a Planet should allow friendly culture to capture neutral worlds that don't have hostile ships in orbit instead of giving a situational damage increase. Global Unity or some other tech should provide an increase to trade income.
The Coronata does not need a total re haul. Repossession should be un-nerfed so that it captures planets with all upgrades intact. Also, Subjugating Assault should deplete enemy AM just like the Kortul's Disruptive Strikes ability. Unity Mass just needs a range increase and no limit to how many friendly ships can contribute to the damage.
What's so bad about desperation? Sure it does a rather odd set of miscellaneous bonuses, but splash damage, small damage reduction and weapon cooldown potentially as high as 60%? Together its not bad for a passive, though active combat abilities obviously have to be better.
Did it ever do this? I thought the only nerf was that it couldn't be used on homeworlds or occupation planets anymore...
The problem with Desperation is not the ability itself, its the fact that the VL Titan doesn't have any active combat abilities before level 6, and even then it doesn't help it against Titans, nor does The Maw compete well with the VR Titan in fleet killing.
I'm pretty sure that Repossession used to be able to do that.
I am not opposed to the Mass Communion income suggestion, although my opinion may be biased since AR are my favorite. I currently find the tech pretty useless. By the time I get it, I've already got most of the temples I need, unless the map is excessively large.
As for Shield Restore, the ability goes on both Temples of Renewal and Repair Bays already.
Also, I must be missing something: Advent have pulse lasers? I thought pulse weapons was a Vasari thing?
Repossession has never taken control of planets with any upgrades intact - it's always been start from scratch. They just limited it from being able to take capital planets.
You never noticed how Advent lasers are fired in pulses?
I think he means the new point defense lasers.
Aren't those just regular lasers, but designed to only fire at strike craft? Because it is the Advent equivalent of other titan's flak guns.
I wouldn't be too excited about a buff to those.
When I said pulse lasers, I just meant the ones on flak frigates, disciples, fighters, SBs, cap ships etc. not the point defense weapons. As said earlier, they are fired in pulses, hence why I referred to them that way.
Advent Rebels are also my favourite. I didn't know that Shield Restore effects repair bays, that certainly improves it at least a little.
If Mass Communion causes culture centers to generate credits, then this tech would pay it self off easily even without the need for more culture buildings.
Well it definitely should because the whole point of the ability is that it captures without bombing first. The upgrades shouldn't just disappear.
The nanite swarms that the Rankulus creates have very ugly visual effects imo. This cap ship would be better off if combat nanites was just an AoE damage buff, support nanites were an AoE armour buff and if the assault nanites had plasma wave cannons to destroy structures.
balance? Here?
Excellent post and analysis, Star. Thanks for taking the time to do that.
Guardians with shield projections are working very well for me supporting suppression.
Overall im always maxing unity mass by having over 70 units in a fleet and in my tests have sniped up to 10 titans and 4 starbases.
My only concern is global unity should be a tier lower.
Radio, all your arguments are invalid because you lost to cobalts.
Hahahaha. Where have you been man?
I don;t agree with your strip the core part, if players strip too many planet they simply loose in the long run, if you are able to hold your corner.
It is a very good way to end the game too, this games need to be faster anyway, that is what titans are for.
How exactly do you lose? You deny the enemy planets to build eco on and in return you get this huge mass of resources.
Well if you loose a planet to a player you did something bad and whether or not he strips it, there is a chance you can retake it or loose the next one... you are already on the defensive.
If he strips is own planet eventually he will have less income then you, because he won;t have population on it. You then need to kill is capital and he will loose is research lab, is income, etc.
The loyalist is based around is cap ships and is remaining station feeding him income. If you hunt is stations and take out the ones with trade ports or the ones with colony pod, he will be hard press over time to make income, especially if you keep primary fire on is capships which become is "planets + lab".
A tech rebel titan can take out is cap ships and curb is econ quite fast. Now if you power turtle and let him eat half the map then you may have a problem.
A tech rebel can put twin stations insuring a hard nut to crack at each bottle neck well and then expend to is backyard too preventing a gate jump.. to easily take over a planet to strip it...
Advent have plenty of nice synergy to eat fleets anyway...
The game is far from balanced with all the other aspect you talked about but strip the core is not that bad... it hard and harsh! But so is a lot of the new powers...
I agree with the post is almost all parts and good job.The think is that the devs must see it and fix the thinks posted here cause is silly not be able to play a whole race and a subrace AL in mp for balance reasons.
I was thinking of getting rebellion, and then i read this post. Seems like a waste of money right now, im so disappointed they made advent even worse. If any faction needed some love from Diplomacy, it was the advent.
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