The only way the corvette could be more OP is to give the little sob fighters of its own, then it will, as it's done to Heavy/Light/AntiFighter, make also the Carrier frigate not worth building.
You have to get at least 5 military labs to develop your fleet. You must lay out lots of credits, metal, and crystal, then work up your fleet supply. Finally, you build up your fleet carefully choosing what you think is the ideal loadout. 1-2 capitals leveled up to at least 3. Frigs/Cruisers have all their abilities. Ready to go.
But the other player is Tech Loyalist, but it doesn't matter, who built up their economy with 3-4 civilian labs and 2 military lab and you are screwed without realizing it while your titan builds slowly and expensively. Why are you screwed? It is elementary my dear Watson. This player is corvette spamming and with an average supply of 3 and low cost has 70 of the little bastards just waiting. 70 of these monsters are gonna barrel your first capital with 2100 raw damage on the first inbound run. But wait... your pain isn't over yet because as they race off giggling they fire a parting shot each for another 1750 raw damage. If you had some fighters, they aren't in great shape either.
So, careful player with mixed fleet, titan in the works, 2 capitals doing nifty... 1 just got pounded with 3850 damage on first run. Mitigation aside, on the next pass he nails the other capital, then works through your fleet so the mitigation drops on that first capital -then he pounds it and cycles through the targets.
How to avoid being screwed? Don't build anything except corvettes you silly willy.
How StarClad can make the game fun and not Corvettes of a Solar Empire:
Rescale 3x, make them fit between light and heavy.
Boost cost to between light and heavy cruiser, bump armor a tiny bit, boost Hull/Shields 3.5x, change back weapon to light and able to fire on fighters.
Boost Anti-Titan ability % values 4x to reflect that it now takes 1 ships to do what 4 did previously.
Require Tier 3 research instead of Tier 0 for corvette unlock.
These are anti-titan, so let players get their conventional fleets out and play the damn game as they have all through Trinity, even get their titan out and having some fun. Then, bring out the Corvettes. There is no reason to have such a powerful and spammable ship out so early.
When i saw the teaser trailer i thought corvettes where Titan support units produced by Titan hanger bays. Sort of like Cylon Heavy Raiders that counter everything.
I see all those nice suggestions for change. However, I think the best solution is to raise the cost and increase build time from 14 to 17 sec. Make them 170 credits and 3 supply per unit. This will significantly reduce the corvette spam.
This way you don't change combat mechanism, but it take longer and more expansive for corvette spam to be effective.
Yeah--that's looking to be the simplest solution but it costs the corvettes effectiveness in several practical areas when you do it. Sigh.
Wouldn't limiting them to a "home" gravity well just mean we'd be trading Corvette/LF spam back for LRM/Bomber spam?
Limit them to defence vesels without ability to jump betweenplanets wouls screwe multiplayer big time.
Its good idea when fighting AI , but it would rip MP games.
No choke would be counquerable at all.
I think PatFenis has the most practical solution at present which is similar to what I think sareth said awhile back here--but it comes back to balance and usefulness then. How much bump on time and expense can you give a corvette until it's no longer worth it or has to be buffed in compensation for more cost to really become more than a corvette?
It would be great to have a corvette carrier that could drop multiple mines which self destructed and became corvettes (looking at the abilities approach). At least that way a "carrier" could spawn up to 10 corvettes at a time and with a short cooldown you could scale production however you wanted.
If you did that, you could give corvettes a limited lifespan or make them non-phasing--they would still be usable for assaults then--but not for sending on a Genghis Khan charge across the universe all by themselves.
You could also move the research tier up for such carriers so that really mobile corvettes didn't happen early game. having expense and logistics costs for the carriers and a limited life or stuck-where-spawned cost to the carried corvettes would also cut back on abuse.
Right now, you can compare corvettes to WWII torpedo boats and if you did, many current strategies are just, "Forget destroyers, cruisers, carriers and battleships--build tons of cheap PT boats and rule the galaxy!".
The non-recyclable corvette approach lets you keep the benefit of fast cheap units needed at a specific time and place but prevents them afterwards from joining from all across the map and becoming the Orc hordes at Helms Deep.
There are a lot of tactics to use against them: Flak, AoE damage abilities, mines, etc. but in early game they are just dominate over almost everything due to how cheaply and quickly they are built--which ironically is one of their most useful attributes.
Right now the corvettes are very cost effective, low supply required, and fast production in the early game. That's the main reason ppl are abusing them.
People who say they are not OP are referring to the combat strength of the unit, rather than overall cost effectiveness.
The goal to nerf the corvettes should be 1) reduce the cost effectiveness in the early game 2) without making the unit obsolete in mid- and late game.
Raising cost, increase supply uses, and increase production can effectively achieve 1).
To achieve 2), you can simply add a new cheap research (e.g. tier 4) to restore the cost and build time I proposed earlier back to current level. So that they remain effective in mid and late game.
I totally agree that the corvettes being very cost effective atm. Who ever has more = the winner
What patfenis is saying about the player needing to research brought me the idea.
U can start with the basis corvette but if you get low DPS/hull points/shields at the start. It would purely be a harras units not very effective. If the player wants it to be effective u have to research the different types of weapons for the ship to increase its effectiveness. This would come at a cost. Putting the research in different tiers would make it less viable for spam tactics early game but better in mid/late game.
I do think the flak guns should be more effective against the corvette so there is actually a counter against it.
Has Iron Clad said anything about this atm?
Maybe like Titans they also can be moved further into the tech tree?
I hate corvettes, they move around stupid, cause lag and are overpowered.
LRF/Bomber spam was fixable with the units we already had in Diplomacy, the Devs just never fixed it...
This is true, however I think it is reasonable to assume that the creation of these types of ships would be concurrent with other appropriate changes...
But would that add too much fast-paced micro to the game, turning the game into Sins of a Solar Starcraft?
as with any game, developers release their vision, then modders theirs.
Actually, having tiered research improvements to the corvette is brilliant--it still lets it be useful early game but delays it's "uberness" until later. You could even have the cost and logistics increase with each new researched level.
Genius!
well, first and foremost, i think corvettes need their own damage and armor type. Then you can really 'play' with the numbers to get them balanced. I realize they have multiple weapon types at the moment, and I kinda like that idea, but I think it can be done.
Riiight.... so I have maxed out my ships slots with corvettes, I queue all the research techs.... and what happens? If it changes them from 2 supply to 3 or 4 supply... where does that come from?
Think real-life navy. In the 60's the U.S. did a major fleet wide refit of hundreds of WWII, Korea and Vietnam era ships.
Suddenly gun ships were equipped with missiles or advanced electronics, higher capacity electrical systems, etc.
Crew size increased requiring new rate types to operate and maintain the new systems and drydock times had to be modified to allow for upgrades and maintenance on the new systems.
More expensive to maintain and operate and more prone to repairs with more systems (Ever seen a retrofitted electronic motor controller box blown off the bulkhead when the formerly hand cranked, WWII era, 5" naval gun it controlled was fired? I have.)
I love the idea of corvettes being their own class for weapon/armor and the like. Will the devs do it?
Right now the US navy is scuttling older upgraded ships to make budget room for new ones and scuttling plans for new ones to upgrade old ones--happens all the time. It's pretty traditional for newer more effective systems to be introduced in smaller numbers to eliminate more numerous older systems.
As for game mechanics, research will just have to be a buff that blows up your old corvettes and replaces them with new ones on death. You actually could create a new entity file and still use the same models and textures and retain the ability to have both corvette types.
Well, quite a few things in Sins have multiple weapons (capitals, titans, starships, flak). But corvettes are the only ones that have multiple attack types.
The issue, I think, is that it is very difficult to balance multiple attack types on multiple ships. if a ship has 6 attack types on it, it is essentially 6 different ships for the cost of 1. However, I think the Corvette is maybe an experiment to see if they can pull off this more realistic attack scheme.
The sequel might have all the ships with multiple attack types and weapons.
I think corvettes were primarily designed for cheap planet defense and to counter titans and that the idea of using them in an exponential horde wasn't really thought much on at the time when it was all just conceptualization.
We can't really call this "real life" because we're stuck with game mechanics. Background adapts to mechanics constraints no matter how convoluted that makes it. But in real life, upgrading ships makes them cost more logistically. I served on two that were decommissioned for that very reason.
Corvettes seem to serve two really good roles natively--defending systems against scout and light strike craft forces. You can stop scouts and lone siege craft and shoot down strike craft without spending a fortune or tying up facility slots for planets or having to do more research. That role is a great addition imo.
The second role is their ability to cripple capitals and titans particularly by stopping their abilities--and it takes a few to survive their defensive guns (especially in their original iterations).
So both roles (and particularly the latter) take numbers to be effective. We got a cheap unit made for those things and the win-anyway-possible players pounced on nanite swarms of corvettes as the best use fro them.
I appended some response above and I agree that they shouldn't subvert other units. The best solution so far is to bump up cost but then you're back to "how much is a corvette worth?".
If you buff abilities to offset logistics/expenses then are they still "corvettes" and if you make them really weak but still cheap, what good are they?
I'd see them as somewhat electronic warfare craft--combined with fast patrol boats. More weakly armed and armored than frigates, expensive for their size to maintain but having that special attack making them valuable.
If they are made their own ship class, then maybe Sith's and others' ideas on creating a weapon/armor matrix slot for them can be done.
As I mentioned before, a good solution to this problem is as follows:
1). Make Corvettes strike craft (i.e. when choosing squadrons, players can choose either a single corvette, a fighter squadron, or a bomber squadron)
2). Balance armor class, health, shields, and damage accordingly so that a single corvette is less powerful than a fighter or bomber squadron, but has shields
In this way, your corvette numbers are limited by how many carrier units you can build.
I'd agree with that, make them a single-craft strikecraft "squadron", much more durable than a single fighter or bomber, but ofc only one, so once it's shot down it has to be rebuilt as a wing.
So the point of them would be that they're "squadrons" which have a comparatively high chance of returning (since the individual craft is so much stronger), but with a higher risk-value in that each craft shot down causes a much longer delay on rebuilding.
corvettes certainly need a nerf, but it's important that the advent ones get a smaller nerf. Corvettes have finally fixed a slew of the advent's problems. Not to mention advent corvettes should be better per-cost then those of the other factions. Just like they get better per-cost LF & scouts.
The reason being the advent's weak economy. The need more efficient early game units to compensate for their poor economy. Late game they compensate with their insane fleet synergy. But early game their only compensation is that their early military units give more benefit per cost payed.
i think they should be in their own class as well as the new cap ship that seems so pointless.
have it take research to unlock the corvette class and make it a true anti titan ship with defense against strikecraft. weak versus frigates,
then the crappy cap that gets moved to this class as well maybe give it anti frig abilities to go along with the corvettes.
make them both a "corvette class" between frigs and cruisers in size 2 ships in the class.
,
call one an assault ship that has a weapon that only fires on titans maybe even capital ships as well.and it has short range defensive weapons for protection verses flak and light frigs and strike craft but has fairly low damage verses them. then the ship that replaces the crappy cap ship that we move into that class as well has straight anti frig ability. Give it a medium range with medium to strong attack verses frigs but cant shoot strikecraft at all. and its weak verses titans, make both of them average verses cruisers. and they both have medium to low armor. maybe barely more armor than frigs.
both can be killed fairly easily by cruisers and frigs but they can kill said ships as well, definately need to be a little more durable than frigs but not as much as a cruiser, cruisers would own them in a straight up fight but in a balanced fleet it would be nice.
cruisers killing corvettes efficiently while one corvette kills frigs efficiently and the other asaults titans. definately cant have them just decimate titans, however it would be the most efficient ship to assault a titan force. have the titan assault ship capable of winning in a fight with flak but not against long range frigs, the other ship would win in a fight verses frigs in a 1/1 ratio but lose to a heavy cruiser 1/1. bombers would kill the anti frig corvette easily but not the anti titan version. they could with numbers of strike craft. they should still be fast but slower than bombers. maybe slightly faster than heavy cruisers. of course frigs could still kill them just like they can kill heavy cruisers but easier than heavy cruisers and they would be able to kill heavy cruisers bt not that easily, however easier than frigs can
make them mid price range btween cruisers and frigs and take mid range of fleet capacity, and they are marginally effective verses cap ships.
make the tech need 3 labs to unlock corvette class then 4 or 5 to unlock the titan killer. it should unlock at the same tier as titans do.
i know this is asking a lot but it would no longer be a spammable corvette and a worthless cap ship. they would have a place in a balanced fleet. And have an actual effective counter to titans. cause we all know they can be damn strong for whoever gets them first.
plus adds a more tactical strat to hunt a titan and they would both be just as vulnerable to titan fire as everything else.
so u couldnt just spam the anti titan and go swarm it cause they would die in a fire but with both corvette ships you could as long as the titan wasnt well defended with a balanced frig cruiser fleet.
maybe say 10 anti titan and 10 anti frig corvettes would lose in a fight verses 10 heavy cruisers and 10 long range frigs.
maybe they would even lose to a 30 frig force.something like 3 long range frigs kill 1 anti frig corvette. the anti titan corvette is vulnerabl to frigs so it would die slowly to a long range frig in a 1v1.
lol sorry i started babbling and so this is a way TLDL sorry
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