When I first heard about the titans, I was very excited about the concept. After a few weeks of playing around with them, I am nowhere near as excited as I used to be. The problem is they are not a strong addition for multiplayer.
The reason is the game is becoming a giant game of "don't feed the titan". With Permanent xp and levels, there is every incentive for a player to risk his titan to kill a ton of frigates just to level it up. As a result players are afraid to bring in frigates until LATE LATE LATE LATE LATE game for fear of leveling the other players titan too high. Also, players are rushing the pirate base for experience and the guy who gets the level 3 titan from killing the pirate ships has a massive advantage.
Please, don't try to argue the "well if he goes to the pirate base, hes vulnerable elsewhere". I thought that too, but sins is slow paced enough where you can't deal a decisive blow while he is leveling his titan. Also, you may argue that suiciding your titan because of the cost and build time is foolish but if you take out enough ships to gain a level or 2, it was well worth it, because even if your opponent starts to push on you, you just bring your titan back out into play even more powerful than before and continue leveling it.
The only real and reasonable solution is to make it so xp and levels DO NOT carry over upon death.
Vasari are the kings of the hill-though there corvettes might be more expensive i still see them using phase missiles in one category.
My suggestion is to have a researchable ability for all 3 races called "titan academy" or "training academy" or something, available to all 6 factions. Basically , it's at the end of the military tree (6 or 8 military labs), and when you research it, it gives your titan the ability to retain it's level upon death. until this is researched, new titans start at level one. perhaps this could carry over to cap ships and starbases as a way to counter titans? I don't know, this is one of my first posts, so it's just a suggestion.
OMG NECRO!!!!!!!!??????????!!!!!!!!!!!!
I actually kinda like this idea.
Meh forgive him. He had a good idea and this topic is till a bit up for debate from time to time.
Its actually not a bad idea +1
Thats a really good idea to balance the titans, hope the devs are reading this post.
Remove the level kept after death or make it an option pls...
I believe titans should retain their levels after they die. This makes the game competitive. The beginning of the game become a rush to build your titan
I agree...anyway, I think the devs have made up their mind on the issue...unless it is changed by tomorrow, I doubt the level retention will be removed...
Could this academy be a building? So that it could be destroyed?
Thanks for the feedback. I guess I was thinking along if all 3 races had some similar abilities, (buy level four capship upgrade, increase shield strength, increase planet pop, etc.) why not give all factions a very end game ability to retain their titans level upon death, otherwise titans should play by the same rules as capships. and as I said, maybe have something either seperately researched for starbases and capships, or have it be an all in one ability. One major major problem I could see with this however, would be that the advent would get totally screwed over, because they would lose Mass Transcendence and Resurrection. Perhaps, Two new abilities would be in order? If I knew anything about modding sins....
I like that idea
I like how they have done Titans personally (:
Woah, Titans retain levels? WTF? That is bogus, and I am all about giving the player every advantage, but even I gotta call BS on this, regular capships don't retain levels so why should titans.
-Æ
Because whoever has the high level titan wins...in all seriousness, the game is about having a high level titan, and players without one are at a massive massive massive disadvantage...
Losing your high level titan is almost like a guaranteed loss if you couldn't bring it back...
I agree that a titan coming back with levels after death is a bit much. So I suggest this:
Add in four more researchs in the titan tech tree after the 4th titan research. Each of these new researches would let your titan keep more and more of its xp after death.
With no "titan xp" research, if you lose your titan, you lose all of it's levels. With researching however, the titan will retain 20% of it's xp after death. Research the next tier, 40% of its xp rolls over, 60% for the next one and finally 80% for the final tier of research.
This way, a player who has these researches isn't completely screwed over when his titan gets killed, but he still loses some of the valuable xp, which gives the other player an advantage.
Furthermore, these researchs would also let you train your titan to a certain level. The first tier of titan xp would let you train titan to level 2, the next tier to level 3, and so on until the final tier to level 5.
TL;DR: Add in four new research options in tiers 5-8 right after the titan research that allows the titan a percentage of it's xp after death, as well as let you train it to a certain maximum level.
It would encourage TEC to face check you with a Lv10 titan
loosing your titan makes you loose all your titan research?
4x research gives you a time sink and Cost penalty for loosing your titan but keeps your XP Powerful titan?
In my opinion, only swarms of bombers/fighters/corvettes should affect a titan. But no, to all this level-keeping crap. If it dies, suffer for your frivolity. Die if necessary- you can play again. If there utterly has to be a system, it should be: Lv 1-3: respawns at level one. Lv 4-6: Respawns at lv. two. All higher levels: respawns at level three. And, this is only a problem because there aren't many cost-effective ways to bring the giants down- some new, powerful super-heavy cruisers would help as would ship-to-ship torpedoes. Maybe heavy bombers, and the inclusion of a corvette designed to attack heavy ships (which can help the corvette OP problem- separate them into anti-strike + anti-light, and straight anti-heavy). Some defenses geared around combatting Titan attacks would help. Some ships with temporary immunity abilities would help. As would having multiple titans. But please no level-keeping, it breaks the lore and screws up the realism.
The fact that this thread has gotten to 7 pages shows that it's something that really needs to be addressed.
There's a lot of really good ideas here - from a new system of losing some XP - or taking longer to re-build and more resources, to various new tech trees...
What puzzles me is that no one here is really making a big noise about the Vasari rebel star bases. I love playing them but now I just don't play as any other race because the strategic advantages of jumping star bases are just too great. They aren't over powered they're simply unfair.
a. Firstly, you can build an Orky star base very early on, and upgrade it twice without any additional research for a total cost of around 6000 credits. This might seem like a lot but consider that this very minimally upgraded star base can take on 2 capital ships and a 20 frigate fleet which basically amounts to everything another player can throw at you within the first 15 minutes of the game.
b. AND while they are doing that - you don't have to spend a penny on fleet upkeep upgrades and running costs - you can cover all your fronts (usually 2 - max 3) with starbases while using your free capital ship to grab more territory. Let's look at it like this - your opponent would need about 3 capital ships and 20-30 frigates to take out your minimally upgraded starbase. He'll have to spend 3 points on capital ships and 2 on fleet supply. On an average early game economy of say 35 credits a second over 15 minutes (just a rough conservative average) - you've saved over 7k on your opponent's expenditure even if we take the cost of his fleet vs your starbase as equal which it generally isn't.
No doubt he'll try to take our your starbase a couple of times before succeeding - each time spending more cash than you.
c. By midgame you'll have upgraded your starbases to 15k life and 2 tiers of weapons - but at this point you'll be able to phase jump them as well and expand your fronts with what are for all intents and purposes 3 or more Titans! Remember - each one will be able to take on a fleet all by itself or flatten planetary defences. In fact the only thing that will give them any pause would be other star bases. You won't need to spend a penny on fleets apart from seige frigates to take planets.
None of this costs anywhere near the cost of a REAL Titan. You'll pack more punch, be able to dish out and absorb a hell of a lot more punishment than any Titan you'll meet in the same timeframe (30 minutes - 1 hour). You'll be able to keep this advantage with reliable PAID upgrades right up until the late game stage at which point you can roll out your own Titan to support your starbases when they come up against properly organised fleets.
All this time you've been saving HUGE amounts of cash compared to your opponents.
By endgame a maxed our Orky can dish out more than 600 points of damage and will have over 30 armour, 25K hit points of 11k shields. Plus a frontal deflector shield or the garbage self repair. It takes over 5 capital ships and 50 frigates to even come close to hurting something like this and unlike Titans you can build AS MANY AS YOU LIKE! With the only limit that you can't have more than 1 in a system at once.
I usually have about 10-15 starbases stomping around causing major havok. The best thing is to just charge them into the rear areas and wipe out Titan foundries, trade ports and orbital refineries. A maxed out Orky is to all intents and purposes invulnerable. You can march it right through a very heavily defended planet where it will kill almost everything it runs past and you just keep jumping it on some big tour of death and destruction. I set 5 of them on a big loop around all the planets like big fat scouts.
Forget trying to counter Titans... 15 rampaging starbases is just impossible to stop.
Based on this post its clear to me you don't read the forums. All people do is make noise about vasari rebel starbases, even more so than titans. And this page was last posted on in June... Necro much?
ahh - just found the thread by doing a google search... also just figured out a crazy tactic of creating phase lanes with my starbase and popping in 25 seige frigates and wiping out an entire planet in one go... definitely op... I'll look for other threads on starbases then - kewl
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