I hate to say it, but I think it is still too easy to get TAR (at tier 4). It needs to be T5, maybe with an additional research at T3.
TAR is a an awesome idea, a very nice tech that really characterizes the whole TEC Rebel race. But if you can rush to it, you can dominate the game from then on. Thus, I think it needs to be delayed.
While Loyalist's early Novaliths is equally strong, I think that awesome tech is balanced by cost & late research.
If it is delayed too much there may be no effect anymore. The main advantage of the research is being able to rush through neutral worlds and just take them over, and in games versus non-TEC players there is no such lategame advantage as being able to pacify insurgents (the main reason the ability seems to be powerful right now).
It's also a double-edged sword anyways as it denies you an early XP-income (and basically you provide those free XP to your enemy whenever they attack you).
The alliance titan can derp the whole pirate planet at lvl1 making the pirates a joke a anyway.
It will be lvl3 and you have plenty of free ships but it's okay they break easy.
Ifg they chage the pirates then it needs to be address...
Its a risk the rebels take i love TAR which gives the look and feel of the Rebels yes you dont get the xp but in the end its nice to have somewhat of a defense fleet to help you out
Now, if Advent had good enough culture to prevent the "rush through neutral worlds", and maybe even repel them, that would be something. But I didn't see that. And I've tried the new T2 Advent 10% buffs to culture. That didn't help much. Maybe they need to double the culture spread through neutrals (non-hostile, non-owned planets & wells), or something like that?
As it stands now (in 0.76), I've seen people get TAR by their 3rd planet, and from that point rush their Akkan/s and spammed colony ships across the galaxy grabbing everything available, putting up suffocating culture, and building a monster economy. I've done it myself, also against Cruels and multiple Hards, and won easily.
honestly the early culture faction abilities for the advent should be made at lower tiers.
Lower cost facilities for the advent rebels,
and the planetary culture for the advent loyalists.
in this way the advent would already be providing pressure against their opponents early expansion into their territory.
I suggest for the advent rebels to have their "cheaper temples of harmony" be an automatic cost decrease for that faction not requiring research. Also, placing culture at tech level 1 so that the rebels will be able to efficiently acquire culture relatively easily on the front lines. This would give them a much more unique start, and make the advent rebels also much more able to counter a truce among rogues.
Used offensively though this could be a bit overpowered(talking about the loyalists only).
So, in addition, make the initial cheap technology to get automatic planetary culture have a weaker culture expansion rate. THEN, add a higher level culture tech(tech 4 is a nice level) that improves this culture to become regular strength. In this way you won't have early expansion abuse, and this gives players more time to counter culture. The developers can allow the loyalist faction ability to be acquired early, which would make them feel far more unique, and the advent would better counter early truce among rogues invasions with their weak early game economy. I just don't want to see a one sided steamroll....
I for one enjoy the idea of truce among rogues, as it really mixes up the economic progression of the eco spot. Perhaps, every rebel faction in the game should have this eh? Then you could easily balance it. Just give it at different tech levels for each rebel faction.
hmm take a look at the thread I just made about truce among rogues...i think i've had a good idea.
https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/421090
I would like to make a map where the pirate faction gets 2 star bases covering the jump in points. 5 Hangars with fighters a frigate factory capable of replacing loses and a over sized cap ship (not titan) that can't leave their home system. Maybe the cap ship could be pieces of captured ships welded together into something dangerous.
I would also give the SB's the Advent ability to sling asteroids instead of the Big Red Button.
Also fighter/bombers seem to be very pirate like, they should get carriers by the 7th invasion or if the invasion price goes over 5K. Also the new TEC Cap ship seems perfect for the pirate faction to send on raids.
I believe the mod distant stars does this, and its great!!!!! i'd highly recommend playing it.
Exploiting TAR has its own disadvantages though. If you expand too fast you'll make yourself broke trying to develop all the planets, and which means your opponent will likely get a titan out first which leaves you vulnerable for quite a while. I lost this way online more than once, though that was before they made Titans more expensive.
Goa, you are right...for fighting on the front lines. Now look at the idea behind have a rebel TEC in the economy pocket. As it is the Rebel TEC will get played a lot more because of TAR because they will have the potential to expand extremely fast and own a huge portion of the map...all their allies will have to do is hold out long enough for the eco guy to turn a profit...and trust me talented players have many ways to stay alive. TEC rebels are like an "economy player on steroids". It will be nasty and brutal. I could see our clan players exploiting this to maximum effect, which will ensure that online play starts to becomes full of online drama and fighting. It gets old after a while, so lets have some good balance!
Oh I'm not denying this, but it kind of goes back to age old question and I think mentioned in one of your other threads. Should the game be balanced around the 5v5s? Again with teams of two there is no economy spot, and its pretty rare with teams of three. Honestly I think TAR is going to be one of those things that they won't be able to balance for the 5v5s, and it may be yet another factor leading to the adaptation of smaller maps to compensate for it.
how about this: put TAR back to tier 3 with no pre-req's. (doesn't seem worth it in a 1v1 because you have to invest in useless diplomacy pre-reqs to get it.)
HOWEVER, to slow it down, every neutral ship in the grav well reduces the planets tax income (this is a truce among ROGUES, not truce among charitable individuals, you have to pay the piper); or upgrades/structures could be more expensive. that will really slow down the expansion.
Neutral ships could then be scuttled slowly by the player like structures, but not otherwise controlled.
Compare with the loyalists tier 3 diplomacy tech, War Bonds or whatever. the income bonus is nice but you have to wait for the enemy to come to you so it's very situational.
alternatively have the first tier 3 tech affect pirates (or milita) and a dependent teir 4 tech affect militia (or pirates), so you could split up the benefits more.
Not a bad idea Stein. The more I think about it, the less I like nerfing it. Would rather see the other races buffed to counter it.
Good point, and it is probably too premature to discuss this without seeing the other races.
I did, a good thread, some interesting ideas.
Thank you sage won for the support on my Truce Among Rogues thread. a big compliment. Thanks .
It's fine as is in smaller games (1v1 and 2v2), kind of weak even. Nerf it again and you might as well just remove it entirely. I have no doubt it's broken in huge team games. The only solution may be to have a gentleman's rule banning the tech (or TEC Rebels) from custom 5v5 games; I'm assuming there will be a proper ladder and matchmaker this time around, right?
You assumed wrong - no ladder or matchmaker planned unfortunately.
There are no "gentleman's rules" in sins online play.
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