I've been playing more of FE since I got my new pc,
Graphic wise it's beautiful, I can't complain. A few glitches here and there but on the whole I can't wait for the final version.
In my opinion tactical battles could be so much better.
First off the battle area is way to small. There is no possibility of making any strategy at all. It's always rush rush rush. It takes one turn for my hero to engage the enemy. That's boring.
The way I see it it is imagine playing a game of Dungeons and Dragons 4th edition on a role mat with hexes everywhere. the DM says ok battle time, he gets up and starts making the mat with washable markers. We are in a forest near a crypt. He draws some walls (cover) there is a small river near by (boundaries some large blocks which makes obstacles and provides cover fire from rage attacks.
IN FE you have no such things . The forest all around is just boundary, it provides no cover and no obstacle. If you are facing another hero or channeler you are engage in the first round. All there is to it is, you bash me I bash you and I hope I have more HP than you. VERY boring.
A tactical battle is about tactics but if you have noting to work with what is the point?
Now that was my complaint.
Now a possible solution,
Either make the battle ground bigger and if you can't then make the squares smaller so you have more of them
Then add some obstacles, I think this should be random. This way all battles are somewhat different.
I would think that distance should be revised as well. Being able to attack the enemy normally within 1 turn is not giving much chance to do tactics.
Tactical battles are one of the corner stones of the game for me anyway, The way they are right now I'll just auto resolve there is no point.
I can't go anywhere on the map I can't run away I can't slow the enemy down not really and I can't hide from missile attacks, So it's rush after rush after rush.
Just sharing my thoughts.
Great game in anycase. Keep up the good work.
Additional normal 1 move units took 5-6 turns to reach the starting area of the enemy - in E:FE it's just like 2-3 turns.
Also in MoM, apart from champions, it was hard to raise the movement speed of units to such ridiculous speeds we see in E:FE current beta.
An excellent point Xadie
I agree with everything the OP said except the Dungeon and Dragons 4.0 part. I would use the D&D 3.5 rules as they were much better when dealing with fighting on a battlemat.
That is the problem they are making it too small and too fast. For some of use the Tactical battles are the best part of a game like this. And to just make it an after thought or like a chess game like you see in Hero's Might and Magic 5 or Kings Bounty would not be what many of us want who want a challanging TC system. AOW:SM (after all patches) TC was pretty good now imagine a more modern version that is what many of us would like to see in TC.
If you don't like TC then simply use Auto-Combat personally I don't see the point in playing the game if you use Auto-combat might as well play CIV if your going to do that
I would agree with this portion, as I have felt this way about Fantasy 4X TCs for some years now.
Well that is sad. I was hoping for something along the lines of AOW:SM with big maps, obstacles line city walls trees boulders that one can hide behind. With battles that are not over in one minute but will last as long as it takes depending on how many units in the battle.
In AOW:SM the TC battle will include all adhjacent units on the Stratigic map. You could potentiallly have large battles.
Battles will last long enough to actully enjoy but not take too long. They lasted any weare from 10 seconds to over 5 minutes depending on how many troops involved.
Can you name some. I'd be interseted in checking them out. Does his games have Tactical battles?
I think his games are 'Board Games.'
are they all computer games?
More importantly, are any of them Fantasy Based?
Just glancing on some screenshots of his recent games, they look like panzer general II on a grand scale.
A lot of good ideas here.
I think mom was better than what we have right now. That's why I spoke up.
Another thing bothered me when I was playing last night, the fact that I cannot delay a stack in favor of another.
Meaning the back stack gets to move first but I want the front stack to move so I can let it past by. But I cannot delay. Wish I could.
Definitely we need a bigger grid with obstacle.
I understand that Frogboy wants to make it fast but what is the point of doing the battle if it's fast but boring.
The real question is if this direction is due to an engine limitation or the extra time it would take to develop. If it is just how the devs want tactical to work, they may be convinced nearer the end of the development process to add in some more complicated tactical features. I think a carbon copy of the MoM maps would be a good start. Movement penalties and bonuses would go a long ways toward tactical nirvana. Larger maps too.
I think a "wait" function should be fairly easy to implement, even with the initiative system. Press the Wait button, unit loses turn, and gets a small buff to initiative for its next turn.
Exactly. Add flying/invisible units, or the excitement of putting to test items you just crafted... Plus, the variety of races and abilities made even the tactical conflicts inherently more interesting to begin with. Let's see how these halflings deal with the dead, or the lizards! Loads of fun to be had in MoM's tactical.
In this regard, I wouldn't say that MoM's tactical battles were fun because they were fast and simple. They were fun because all kinds of crazy -and yet coherent with the context!- things could happen in them. Which, of course, was true for the game as a whole. I feel this is one of the key points still being underestimated.
Why would you need space to manuever when there's no incentive to manuevre ? Back attacks ? no. Pincer attacks ? No. Zones of control (and attacks of opportunity) ? No. Terrain matters (traps, rivers, hills, muddy, slippy, etc.) ? No. Is there at least a way to block access to weaker units ? No, thanks to the square grid that won't easily let you block your units in the back (maybe only allow attacks on orthogonal for usual weapons. Long weapons could attack in diagonal).
I agree that, like Stratego, only Orthogonal attacks for melee might be more interesting
True. But I think we could also do with orthagonal-direction-only melee attacks and movement, back attacks(assassin n mounted?), and terrain modifications.
There is line between what can be changed and what cannot or will not be changed. It's fine to want orthogonal melee and back attacks, but the devs are not going to implement those. You really need to read some of the dev responses to these kind of suggestions to get a better idea of what might be added, before it is clear. That said, there is still hope for terrain bonuses. It's a fine line.
I would LOVE for each army to have a predetermined formation.
I would rather be able to place units on the map at the beginning of tactical combat.
Placing units at the start of battle could be an trait, adds a little variety to the Leader Champion. Normally each army could just have a predetermined setup.
No Backstab, when was that said?
My biggest simple problems:
Overpower needs reworked. Different levels? Overpower max 3/6/9
Defend needs reworked. Suggest spammable, +def +counterattack and special weapon bonus (Extra ranged Def for shield, Pike first strike counter, sword multi counter)
More tactical terrain
Units have no strengths or weaknesses (Like mounted < Pikemen < archers)
Not true, the bumps in your screenshot slow walking troops. There are also roads and walls which affect movement and tactics. And perhaps most importantly movement speed is quite slow in the MoM tactical combat which gives a force with ranged forces a half way decent chance of protecting them from attackers, in FE it is too easy to just run around the enemy and attack ranged troops.
And that is comparing with MoM which came out 15 years ago. A better benchmark for good tactical combats would be Age of Wonders: Shadow Magic. Not to say that FE necessarily needs to try to have the same sort of tactical combats as AoW (tho it might help!) but if you're trying to evaluate where you stand then that is a good benchmark.
I'm not convinced about the need to position your troops at the start. It could work I guess but it could also just become one more repetitive tedious step which doesn't add much more to the game (apart from perhaps giving the player another way of gaining an advantage over the AI, which is what the ability to position troops in Total War does!).
You mean that if you enter a zone of control of your enemy your are stopped ? Or that if you start in a Zoc Then you can't enter another ZoC right away ?
I'm sorry but Zone of "control" need to get "control" gameplay attached.
I read everything, I'm here for a looooong time. And orthogonal attack isn't something that is hard to code.
Tactics comes from choices. At the moment you don't have choices. That can come with more unit abilities, but really... "space" to manuever ... you first "need" to maneuver.
MoM or Age wonders didn't let the player place their troops. HoMM did, but the game was focused on the battles. Here we have a game that has strategic and tacticals layers on par. So the battles will never have the complexity of HoMM or King's bounty or Elven Legacy (that would be sooo good. But I know I'm just dreaming for that) : they need to be fast, and placing your units can take some time. So I would be glad to have them positioned automatically (you don't need a brain to place them : casters, bowmen in the rear, everyone else on the front).
I don't quite get your second question. A unit starting in ZoC shouldn't be able to enter another ZoC "right away"? Do you mean the unit starting in a ZoC should first move to a non-ZoC square and only then back to another ZoC? I think being able to move a single square from ZoC to a ZoC is quite a regular rule in strategy games.
From what I see, ZoC is currently 100% functional, just not communicated properly to the player, like most combat mechanics.
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