So I did my first couple of MP games today. It went well enough, my experience with SP games meant I didn't get crushed; but I also wasn't much of a threat. In both games I actually had number 1 in military for the first 20 min or so, and I expanded decently, but the second I hit an enemy world and the first enemy fleet, my progress was stopped cold and I was forced into turtle mode. Can't risk attacking because I'll lose my fleet, or leave some of my worlds undefended. It just takes far too long to siege a planet with only 1-2 caps. At this point with like 4-6 planets, even with trade depots, my eco slows to a crawl as I spend everything I have maxing out ship build queues just to keep up with my enemies. At this point I'm basically nullified as a threat because I don't have enough fleet to rush my enemies without taking heavy losses, but my eco is so slow I can't build a decent fleet. By this time also my enemy is starting to bust out heavy cruisers and 3-4 cap ships, and I'm stuck with Illums and such ( I only play Advent ) because al lof my eco is going into ship produciton and I can't spend much on techs. Seems like everyone is able to get a great economy, tech up , AND build huge fleets so fast. Before I'm even halfway down the research trees, my enemies are building Novaliths and crap.
I guess what I'm looking for is advice, just general advice based on what I've said; but maybe also answers to these specific questions.
1.) Fleet building vs. teching up. How much should I do one over the other and for how long? Is it better to have more ships with less hp and attack power (because you bought ships and NOT techs), or less ships that are sturdier and more effective?
2.) I understand most people avoid star bases, so when should I use them? Just to defend a choke point? Only late game?
3.) I know the ultimate answer is "build whatever counters your enemies", but is there a good all round fleet setup for Advent? It seemed like all the Tec guys I was facing spammed NOTHING but LRF at first, and then switched to TONS of Hosi's plus Kodiak's mixed in. Any solid fleet comp spam I can focus on, or should I really just diversify? I know Anima Drone Hosts are wicked good, but my god are they expensive, and take so much FS and time to build.
4.) What can I do about getting my eco flowing? I know that the techs that increase crystal and metal extraction rate are considered junky, but thats the thing. I almost always have decent money, and ok metal, but my crystal is a HUGE game breaker. I end up spending more credits buying crystal and sometimes metal, than I spend on ships. Even with a Trade Depot on every planet, I just can't seem to keep my eco flowing well, and the more I upgrade fleet supply the more I bog down.
5.) The last game I was in, one of my team mates was wanting me to build 3+ Phase Jump Inhibitors on every frontline world. He said it was to stop them from jsut blitzing past a planet and hitting vital areas. In PVE, even on the hardest difficulty modes, I only ever build 1 MAYBE 2. Do their effects stack? Or is it just to make it so they can't quickly bomb one all to hell and hten leave? Any other multiplayer oriented building stacking I need to know about that wouldn't really be used in SP?
6.) How much is micro important? I know using certain abilities to interrupt caps and to drain their AM is important, but I'm just worried because I tend to over focus on one battle. I get caught up in focusing on one battle and pretty much stop worrying about much else. Are there times where I should just send my ships to attack and go do other crap, or should I always micro?
7.) And lastly, how many of you use keybinds? I know in pvp for other games, using keybindings instead of clicking with the cursor was absolutely vital, and the first step to separate the scrubs from the decent players. Is that true in Sins, or is it not that much better than just being fast at clicking with a high DPI mouse?
Anyhow, I know the best way to learn is to just play and get owned alot. But I hope someone will have the patience to offer me advice, I'm really liking the MP in this game and I don't want to let future team members down. Thanks for any help in advance!
1. Teching to the backbone of your fleet is essential. You often see TEC open up with two military labs and get a third shortly after. and they now have access to the backbone of their fleets for a long long time. As advent, you will have a slightly harder time because Illum cost 3 military labs. A popular opening is getting disciples and scouts (scouts do well against lrf) while you get that third military lab. Buying health and shield upgrades are essential as well. Weak ships just means you level your opponents cap fast, and that's not good for you.
2.Use star bases whenever you think you can't beat your opponent if he attacks your planets. If you have doubt, build a star base. If you do build a star base, make sure you have the labs to research meteor storm. Also, repair bays are essential for any military or defense so always have them before you are attacked (front lines mainly)
3. Advent battleball = illum, guardians with repulse, halycon with aura, mothership with shield regen, and defense vessels. Don't focus on drone hosts early on. Typical players open with carrier caps, and if you go heavy on the fighters, they will just counter with flak.
4. Advent econ is tricky. It takes 3 civ labs to get trade. Early advent is logistic heavy as you need a total of 6 labs to get illum and trade. I would suggest throwing down culture around every 3 players apart. Its a poor mans trade, but it is cost effective. One trade port per planet is never enough, once you get that initial lab requirements down (3 of each for early-mid game) you want to use all available logistic slots on trade.
5. You build multiple because the enemy will splash one really fast if their fleet is large enough. Also for large planets, one pji wont cover the entire well.
6. Always micro. There is always something to do. In battle, its micro'ing caps and abilities, fleet position (it matters), factory queue's, and even research (you would be surprised how much getting a extra armor or health upgrade in battle helps). When not in battle, its maxing out your planets and research, feeding partners (if applicable) maybe doing pacts. Mid-late game sins you almost never stop doing something. It can be just as mouse click heavy as star craft.
7.Keybinds......i just just one or two for my fleet......up to you really how you use them.
Thank you! +1 Karma for you, very good response.
Generally I agree with Elrosh, but I have a few comments.
2) If you build a star base, you are instantly behind in fleet and your enemy can go around and hit your other worlds. If they are TEC, They may also just blow up the star base with orgevs. Build a star base if and only if you must defend that world or you have a stronger economy. As Advent, the former is the most likely. using phase jump inhibitors helps for deterring go-arounds though. Keep in mind that star bases are not to be relied upon unless the world you are defending is a key world. They are simply too expensive unless it is late game. Then, I agree with Elrosh, put it up, use meteors, and phase jump inhibitors.
4) Advent ecoing is tough because of how long it takes to get going, like Elrosh said. I recommend you do not bother until the battlefront with your enemies is settled and you have either won, or neither side is making any moves. Then build culture structures and slowly trade up if your enemies fleet is not growing. Odds are, they are doing the same at that point. You also must decide if its worthwhile to build trade or mass a fleet and crush your opponent while they are building up their trade. Once you start to trade though, there is no going back. You MUST continue to build trade ports just to keep up because Advent have a weak economy.
6) Micro can make or break you teams game. It is very important as you get better, so practice as best you can. I would argue it more important early game as you are setting up your empire. It does become more intensive in mid and late-game, but if you can take a choke point world from your opponent early on, it will make a huge difference mid and late-game. Elrosh covered all the details so all I can tell you is practice. Also, listen to more experienced players. They may be rude, but they usually have a point. If they get you killed, ask why.
Sorry to double post but one last thing. Advent are a difficult race to be good at so don't be too frustrated if it take a long time to become good.
Thanks for the great replies guys. I'll try to make use of your advice.
Sins is a game of counters. U must learn them. what unit counter what enymy units.
like bombers counter HC
Light frigs counter carrters
scouts and flaks counter LRMs
LRMs counter light frigs
Ogrovos counter stabases and structures generaly.
Also learn the use and abilities of support crusers.
Most important.
Watch replays. Of every game, u can watch them on x8 speed.
especialy when u lost. See what your enymy did, what upgrades he made, what unit used,
And if u get to 5v5 listen to what people say to u
If you really want to get better at this game, you should start playing TEC.
They have really powerful capital ships, particularly the Dunov capital ship. Spam these like no tomorrow. As far as supporting frigates and cruisers go, only build Cielo command cruisers and siege frigates. Do not build colony frigates or colonize planets because it is a waste of resources that could be poured into Dunovs.
Very true. Also, remember to use fabled Dual Dunov Rush (DDR), or if you're facing very skilled player, such as Chose or 2face, even Triple Dunov Rush(TDR). Remember to build capital ship factory for each of your caps to speed up production.
Whoa spamming out Dunovs is not what you want to be doing.
With the amount of resources you spam out in Dunovs, you can do so much more for a better frigate and cruiser fleet which will be more useful. 2 Dunovs is probably your limit. Heck you really shouldn't be spamming out any capital with any race.
Also building only Cielo's and siege frigates as support is not good at all. Hoshis will be the main support cruiser if anything and that you should be spamming these out if you are gonna spam a cruiser. Cielos are okay and siege frigates is only if you want to bomb out the planet really fast.
A TEC fleet should use LRMs, Flaks, and Hoshis at least. The other cruisers are your choice but those 3 I mentioned are essential.
Also TEC capital ships are not as "powerful" as they described.
They're pros who know that very well, they just get a kick out of trolling noobs so they take longer to be good enough to threaten their position.
Don't worry, my "Troll Alert" went off hard reading those posts. Not that I think they're being malicious, but even though I'm a newb to pvp I'm not dense and bereft of any ability to detect sarcasm.
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