How does everyone feel about the current hero levelling system? The randomized bonuses just seem a bit... Silly. I'd much rather have a dedicated talent tree and the ability to pick one or two classes (maybe picking 2x mage will give you a mage tree and an archmage tree for once you fill out the mage one and the same for the rest?) rather than this current "roll not to suck" system.
I like the random traits but I agree with OP you should be limited to a class or archetype.
Also, Rare traits should be rare. By level 10 more champions have at least 3 "rare" traits.
I agree with the archetype thing. Path Of The ... traits should be rated "Special", only available once.
I also want a couple of Unique and Epic traits.
And I would hope that the UI made the rare traits more shiny so that you would feel cool when one of them appears.
An Epic trait could then let you pick a second Path trait on the next level up; call it Dual Proficiency or something like that.
I like the current system, but I'd like to see some rarer traits, and if you meet certain prerequisites, you can get a "class" which can unlock more stuff.
How about a combo of the two; A Diablo style tree with the skills semi-randomly chosen at the start of the game? Kind of like the SOTS tech tree.
Once a certain no of skills have been chosen it could un-lock a second tree.
I don't mind the randomization, especially when it identifies if something is common, uncommon, or rare.
What definitely needs to happen is better displaying what happens when a hero levels up (# HP gained, increased stat(s), etc.
I like my random traits, honestly. It keeps things interesting and different from game to game. I can't plan on getting that Fire5 because I might never get there.
I think the pool with generic traits that aren't from specific paths should be reduced in number, though. They are often quite boring, and end up rarely getting picked.
I like a combo of both random and archtype path. I haven't played it enough to get a deep feeling of it, think I played for an hour and my Sov is level 5. Does the "Path of..." choice have an effect on future options? I didn't get to play enough yet to be able to tell.
I am going to create a more detailed post about the issue of common traits being lackluster, but basically you get very little from them. I would rather get a little mor, but sacrifice something to get it. Also need more levels of rarity. Right now it is only common, uncommon, and rare.
I'm cool with the current system, they just need more unique upgrades for each path.
One of the most similar leveling systems I've seen to this games is the HoMM5 system - each faction had a web of upgrades for certain classes of heroes: http://www.celestialheavens.com/viewpage.php?id=520
The outer ring of skills would be somwhat analagous to the 'Path of' traits here, with each outer skill unlocking subskills, and combinations of those skills leading to 'ultimate' skills in the center of the ring.
A similar system could be used here, where a broader range of traits are accessible to each path, and picking certain combinations unlocks the possibility of more advanced traits showing up.
Another option would be the combination of multiple paths traits unlocking new paths or new traits.
Really there's a lot they can do with the current system, it just needs more development. The current path trees are very shallow and mostly bland, but it's so easy to think up new traits/combinations/branches, I'd be amazed if they are content to let it lie as it stands now.
There is no way Derek would let it stand as is. What we have now are prototypical traits. I would like a trait tree in the Hiergamemnon so we can analyze our choices more intelligently. The best thing about the current system is that you can no longer turn any hero into any class. I got a few wizards with 4 and 5 for all the combat attributes and 12 to 14 for intelligence. They also had the merchant trait which freaking rocks. I am getting 12 gildar per merchant. Very nice trade for not being able to fight well.
as seanw3 said, I'd love to see the trait tree in the help window thing (that is one ugly word.)
But I do like the way it is now, where some traits are uncommon and rare, don't really want to be able to follow the tree to exactly what I want every game. Doing that, you may as well just throw out the system and have straight classes with automatic upgrades, IMO.
I really have no idea why you guys can enjoy randomness like this for the levelling of heros. It limits strategic choice and just makes it into a game of rolling the dice, especially when rare ones are, 99% of the time, just outright superior to the hero regardless of it's class.
I think one of the biggest things that needs to be fixed is that when getting a trait you first roll for how good the trait is (common, uncommon, rare, path, epic) then you get a selection of traits all at that strength. Because otherwise I feel like I'm crippling myself if I don't get the one rare trait even if it's not the way I wanted my champion to go.
There's also this.
I like some randomness in the traits, but you should be able to plan ahead a little. Maybe a little of both could do the trick? Say 3 options that depend on what path you have chosen for the hero, and two that are random.
That's fine by me, 3 out of 10 being rare means 7 being generic. I don't see whats the problem with that. 3 traits that are 'epic' or what would you call the even rarer traits would be unbalanced maybe.
I think one of the biggest issues is that the various characters paths aren't really balanced. Path of the mage or warrior gives you objectively better skills than the others. Mage lets you murder everything with fire, while warrior lets you have awesome special attacks. The assissination and defender paths don't really have anything as cool as or useful from what I've seen. And I think there is a whole thread dedicated to improving the governor path.
yeah i agree
random traits are fine, and in the high lvl there should be less 2 con 2 str etc and more specialized trait following the path(s) chosen
Defender gets good con and some useful army boosting traits - assassin is terrible though, its consistently underperformed in every game I've tried to use it, it needs more unique traits and worthwhile special abilities.
I got WhatHerName the Scorpion up to 75ish% chance to crit one game, it made the Maul Broadsword scary. Of course graveseal works at 100% for very little mana.
The PoT Assassin is only really good for Master Scout as far as I can see.
Huh, does crit override miss etc? So, is it you roll to hit THEN you roll to crit or is it all on one roll sheet?
I disagree strongly on that.
Multiclassing has been the bread and butter of D&D.
The only thing that is needed is that some perk linked to those paths should have pre-requisites.
This! Randomness has a place in strategy games, but not for decisions that have major tactical impacts.
I like the random element, it makes you work around things rather than just making the boring optimised option. But increasing the number of choices would be ideal.
My ideal level of randomness would be to have 'common' traits the character qualifies for always be available, then a second window of random uncommon and rare choices. This is a nice compromise between the two, as you are always guaranteed a choice in the common selection that would fit, but there is the chance of a rare or uncommon trait popping up that fits better.
Homm's had random levelups for ages and it works just fine
Much like this game, the trick is to 'smooth out' the randomness by constraining what can or cannot show up when you level. In HoMM it's done by typically giving you a certain set of attributes based on your faction, in this game its done by giving you upgrades relating to the path you've chosen.
So it's 'random', but it's random within a limited set of options, so you don't deviate wildly from your chosen path(s) - but like I mentioned before, they need to add more stuff to each path to make leveling more interesting.
Heroes of might and magic had very controlled random level ups. Your heroes had a restricted pool to choose from, and if you played your cards right you could usually force the game to give you all the skills you wanted (just not necessarily at the right times), since you could only have 'x' number of skills with varying levels.
Random in this game is 'random'. You are just as likely to get Fast, Quick, Strength, and Constitution, as you are Fire II, Water V, Affinity and Intelligence. Controlled randomness is tolerable but true randomness is silly. Nothing good ever came of the random skill selection in heroes of might and magic. Basically you had a 1/9 chance to go "oh fuck looks like this guy is gimp".
Honestly I cannot see any positive reasoning behind making skills random other than it is easier to program.
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