If anyone requests information o the mods Ill be happy to give it, but really I just want an answer to my question and if people havent experienced it for themselves then they cant properly answer my question.
So, which mod is best?
Requiem keeps the vanilla factions and balance currently set up in Sins, while Sins of a Galactic Empire is a total conversion mod (i.e. no vanilla factions, etc). While both are Star Wars mods, they've set out to do entirely different things.
That doesnt mean one isnt better than the other. Take COD for example; its a completely different game from Sins, but compared to Sins it sucks. Please dont waste your breath people if you arent going to answer my question. Jeez, its okay to have an opinion about something.
But that's a subjective opinion, to people who don't like strategy games, COD is easily the better game. So Lavo just told you what each tries to do. People who like standard Sins gameplay and a more movie centered experience would probably like Requiem more, those who want a more hard core by the expanded canon experience would prefer SoGE.
I should also point out Lavo is a developer for SoGE and I work on Requiem, so I think you can figure out our opinions.
Ok, you CAN compare the quality of two games, no matter how unlikely they are. According to the "definition" youve set for game quality, that means theres not such thing as a sucky game or mod which doesn make sense. There IS such a thing as a wrong opinion, its just not so easy to prove wrong as opposed to fact.
But... it doesnt even matter if Im right or not because neither of you are going to answer my question anyways. Neither of you want to badmouth the other's mod.
You have a definition of a sucky game, I have a definition of a sucky game, the COD gamer has a definition of a sucky game. They may have some overlapping elements but each definition is not the same. A couple of my favorite games of all time got 6s on review sites. That doesn't mean my definition of a great game is wrong, its just different than most people's.
Why should we? Its not a competition. We help out each other where we can. Besides, what are you really looking for? Some random person coming in here to say in one sentence "I like SoGE and Requiem sucks" without any reason why? That would be useless to you. We gave you some reasons why you might like one more than another, its up to you to use that information to make a decision on which one to try (first).
Best answer to this question is to try out both mods and see for yourself. Thats all I can say.
Goa, by arguing this point of "theres not such thing as a right or wrong opinion" your also saying that "its not okay to argue your opinions" because of that reason. So we both have opinions on what an opinion is and by arguing with me about the definition of an opinion you are effectively contradicting yourself. Im strawmanning you say!? I am? Well then if Im strawmanning then why did you not answer my question about which mod (in your opinion) is done better?
Also, the mods arent unlike either. They accomplish basically the same thing with little difference. No, they ARENT terribly different so dont argue that please.
Dude, shut the fuck up. You're wasting everyone's time on these forums. Thread after thread, you're just picking fights. Fuck off already. Jesus Christ you're starting to annoy the hell out of me. There. You have my opinion. Happy now? Where's that negative Karma button I keep asking for... Or give me forum admin powers so I can get rid of comments that are clearly deserving to be deleted... I may be an asshole, but I'm always fair.
Try reading, dumbass. He gave his opinion. If that requires too much abstract thinking on your part, let me break it down in terms that you and my almost 4 year old niece can clearly understand. The guy with the spaceship for a picture works on one, his opinion is that his is better, that is why he keeps on working on it. The guy with the man for a picture likes his best, that is why he keeps working on his. That is why there are two, rather then them combining efforts and making one. They want different things, they each like their own better, there are two mods because of it.
Like everyone said, which is best depends on what you want to get out of it. They share resources and help each other out often. They're going to be on par with each other in quality. Play them both and decide for your damned self rather then bitching at everyone here for not going to the polling centers and casting a vote. No one wants to do that. No one cares. I like Star Wars, even Jar Jar. Yes people laugh at me when I say that, but that goofy fool cracks me up. I have copies of both Star Wars mods. I like both. Neither one is my favorite. I develop three other mods. I've helped out in some capacity with half a dozen more. In fact, I'm not in the minority, I'm actually in the majority of the modding population that lends time and expertise to other mods. Why do I? Because I think they're all great, they all do different things, none of them are any better then the others... And that includes 7 Deadly Sins. End of story.
And now for the off topic crap.
No he's not saying that, you're saying that. Everyone has an opinion, clearly you shouldn't be allowed to have one, but the rest of us are. Goa is right. My opinion is probably different then yours, doesn't make mine right, doesn't make it wrong either, just like you have your opinions unfortunately, doesn't mean yours are right, doesn't mean they are wrong, even though they probably are. They are just opinions. Some are more based in fact then others, but they are opinions and not facts therefor they cannot be judged as right and wrong. We all argue our opinions all of the time. It's perfectly fine in most cases. In fact, in some cases it is demanded. This situation isn't either of those. You've got 4 answers, all 4 answers declined to pick one over the other and instead are telling you to stop being a bitch and make your own choice.
He's not arguing anything. You're attacking him, he's defending himself. Your opinion on what an opinion is, is the same things as what his is, which is the same thing as what my opinion of an opinion is. There is no contradiction in his logic. He said opinions vary greatly, and what is great/sucky for one person is not the same for another. That is absolute fact you troll. I prefer strategy/RPG games. My brother prefers first person shooters. I love the shit out of Ogre Battle, he loves the shit out of Halo. He says Ogre Battle is too slow and boring, I say Halo has weak game play and no replay value. Which one of us is right? Oh that's right, those are both opinions. Neither is right, neither is wrong. We can argue until we're blue in the face and the only thing we will have proven is that we like different games. Coincidentally, we both love to coop that old arcade game Rampage and do the damage up quite nicely whenever I break out the old NES for shits and giggles. The only difference in opinions here is you want to be told what to think, and Goa doesn't care if you like his more or not, and neither does Lavo. The simple fact that you're interested is a win for them both.
They both said they are Star Wars mods. That in and of itself is admission by both that they are alike. This point of yours is a moot one.
That is a statement of opinion, not a matter of fact. Let me teach you what facts look like. Fact is one takes what's available in the movies and balances it according to the stock races so they can be played against each other on equal ground. Fact is, the other scraps the core game and uses only what is available in the Star Wars universe and balances according to officially accepted standards of that universe. Fact is, both mods will play different. Do you see the difference here? My statements are easily proved as reality or false, yours cannot be proven as either because while you say there is little difference, the rest of us say there is actually quite a bit of differences. Neither statement can be proven as fact or fiction due to the fact that we all have different standards for what a little or a lot of changes are, and are thus opinions. Thus concludes your first grade education, would you like your mommy to take you by the hand and walk you to your next classroom now so the guy by the windowless van giving out free candy doesn't kidnap you, sweetheart? Clearly you need to be walked by the hand since you're not capable of even a simple task such as playing two mods and deciding for yourself...
Again, opinion. Based on the majority of people here you have the wrong opinion, so shut up already. You've been told what the differences are. You know what the similarities are. You want to know which is better and why? Here is the moral of this story: Play it your god damned self and figure it out rather then bitching. You can come back here when you're done and tell us all about it.
To coin a modern idiom, "Obvious troll is obvious."
Either you are a troll or you're a fucking idiot. No, Goa is right, it boils down to opinions as Requiem and Sins of a Galactic Empire are aiming for different things. One wants to expand stock Sins gameplay, the other wants to create a more "Star Wars-y" feel. The two mods are extremely different. How do I know this? I'm staff for one and have played and looked at the code the other; I damn well know whether the two mods are different or not. If you want an opinion, here's mine: If you like the way stock Sins plays and simply want an "expanded" Sins with Star Wars, go with Requiem, and if you want something that throws vanilla gameplay out the window and gives you something different and new, go with Sins of a Galactic Empire, as Stant123 elaborated in more detail. My first post answered your question clearly; it entirely depends on if you care for vanilla gameplay or not.
"Goa, by arguing this point of "theres not such thing as a right or wrong opinion" your also saying that "its not okay to argue your opinions" because of that reason. So we both have opinions on what an opinion is and by arguing with me about the definition of an opinion you are effectively contradicting yourself. Im strawmanning you say!? I am? Well then if Im strawmanning then why did you not answer my question about which mod (in your opinion) is done better?"
This little bit right here, still holds true and noone has effectively represented logic to counter. In the end, I dont want to have an argument with a bunch of selfrightous fucktards yelling "ITS IZ AN UMPINYAANZ U MEANY HEAD FUCK DIK TROWL!", I just want a fucking answer to my question, and so really IM the one defending myself.
Now, if we can manage to put that childish troll call bullshit and other behind us, I will say Im not happy with SOAGE because its not really balanced out. For some reason, when I got coruscant and a few other planets, I still had more credits than my brother even though he had more planets and they all maxed with econ. Thats just one example of many. So, I suppose Requiem might be a better choice? I mean, I would prefer Requiem over Galactic if it were higher quality as well. Galactic has some bugs and lots of problems for being developed on for... I dont know how many years.
Fact: IF requiem were to have less bugs, more stat balance, in general just higher quality it WOULD be the better mod. You see with things like these you cant really use the label "opinion" so as to make all opposing opinions equal because thats simply not fair. As far as things like color go Im not going to fucking argue about why blue is better than red, but at some point even opinions become true or at the least very close to fact.
I write well though out (I think anyways) helpful inputs to these games and get ignored. lol
This asshole comes along and is taking you all along for a ride....ignore him.
The planets are made out as per how the Star Wars galaxy is; the core worlds are going to have significantly more tax income and production power than a bunch of backwater Outer Rim planets. These planets are also much harder to conquer, especially early on, due to their large militias. That isn't an issue of balance; you simply are not used to the fact that SoGE does away with everything from stock Sins, planets included. If you have bug and balance concerns, do voice them. I always love to get constructive criticism, and is something I want from players and beta testers. I've personally been working on/with SoGE for just over a year; before that I had no involvement whatsoever, and as such aren't even aware of all of these supposed "age old" bugs that some people like to talk about without supplying any sort of supporting evidence.
I'd like to take a moment out to applaud the Sins community for managing to provide constructive, well thought out and helpful information even in the face of such intense rage. It really is remarkable!
And trust me, as someone who's yet to play either mod but has both sitting in my mod list waiting for me to try them out, this thread genuinely has been very helpful. Cheers!
Its not about evidence, its about logic, to be technical. Me and my brother played a game and he started in a place where the surrounding planets were high level. It could just be that he exaggerated his circumstances though and there was only one high level planet next to his homeworld but he said he was having a hard time colonizing.So the issue here is unfair player spawning. Also, since allegiance already exists, theres no need for "outer rim worlds" to have significantly less of everything. That needs to be rebalanced, either by removing culture (as it applies to a persons own worlds) or simply by buffing outer rim worlds significantly.
The other thing is that most ships are useless. For example, for the new republic I need only make heavy mon calamari cruisers and nebulons. I learned this by creating ten of each ship. In an epic fleet battle my brother wiped out all my ships and the last to die were the nebulons and heavy mon calamari cruisers. That doesnt necessarily prove that the other ships are useless compared to them however, but this does; the next time our fleets met I had only nebulons and heavy MC ships. His fleet was wiped out, being constructed from a variety of ships. However since the second time our fleets met he was actually attacking me (hence me having the advantage of my defenses) so maybe that had more to do with it than I thought.
Another problem is that credit income becomes extremely huge late game and so naturally players want to use that to buy resources, but that becomes an extremely slow process as resources become consumed extremely fast late game as well when you build on shipyard planets with dozens of factories and lots of supply points. This was a small problem in vanilla sins, but in the mod the problem is multiplied times ten because of the larger scale. An easy fix could simply be having a user interface option that automatically buys and sells resources instantly as you build, or maybe the player should be able to simply buy more resources at once.
The things that really bother are some of the retarded images and descriptions for research, ships, and building construction thumbnails. These seemingly small "problems" are a big deal to me simply because they destroy the atmosphere. Most of the descriptions either sound like theyve been written by a child, or painfully generalized. I have no idea which ships have X damage bonus versus X ship. Also the build thumbnails dont match up with the actual structures being built, but maybe thats a hardcoding issue. Actually it couldnt be a hardcoding issue because there are build thumbnail images that do represent their actual builded object.
Finally, while the skybox is a beautiful representation of the star wars universe, the top and bottom arent displayed properly and are distorted. No doubt this is already known to you. This is also true for the planets, which are also quite gorgeous despite that.
Thats all the issues that come to mind.
Now regarding the whole opinion argument, I think theres been a huge misunderstanding. Im not saying that people are wrong for preferring the main idea that each mod accomplishes (Total conversion (SoaGE) vs vanilla plus starwars factions (Requiem)) im simply saying that its ridiculous for others to say you cant compare the quality of the two. I havent played requiem so I wouldnt know that difference.
While this is primarily a hardcoded issue, the "Enlarged" series of random maps helps with the issue somewhat by trying to force a sort of "wall" of tech 1-3 planets (aka. ones that aren't extremely tough to break through and require either the Arctic colonization tech or no tech at all). It isn't the best I admit, but with how the engine is, it's the best I can do.
That's wrong; allegiance is a big portion of SoGE gameplay, by "eliminating" it you'd heavily nerf the capability of people to use culture to their advantage, in addition to making resources even more abundant. Though I will note that I did tweak allegiance not too long ago, making the cut off point 50% instead of 25% and making it decrease more gradually.
Most people would actually disagree with you that Coronas are useful at all (the NR does not have the Nebulon-B or B2); surprisingly you're among the few who see value in frigates, unless you are referring to something else. The MC Heavy Carrier is the best cruiser in the game, in pure upfront combat, but then again it's also the most supply-heavy cruiser in the game as well.
Defenses make this somewhat invalid. Even having a handful of Turbolaser Defenses make a massive difference, due to their powerful single-target firepower. When focused on a single target they can take it out pretty quickly; this is particularly important with targets that give fleet-wide benefits, such as the Jedi Venator. Not only that but this is even more prominent with the Republic faction, which iirc you said your brother was playing as.
The closest you'll get to that is the mini-underground window; this isn't exactly possible due to engine limitations.
The research images are how they are mainly as well, we simply don't have that many and I've personally been the one doing the majority of work on research, and pretty much everything sans planets and models, for over a year now, and while I agree the overuse of images are an issue, I'm more focused on trying to get varying research between races period, as it's simply too similar now. That isn't to say I'm ignoring it mind you. As for the research descriptions, I don't really see the issue here; it's clear what the research does and, in the majority of cases, ships/structures/etc which ships are affected by it.
As for the ship descriptions, which ones are you talking about? The counterdesc or the ship's desc? If the former, this is primarily due to the widespread multi-role abilties of Star Wars ships; while some ships were meant with specific roles in mind, such as anti-starfighter protection, there is barely any "X ship has X damage bonus against Y ship". In fact, SoGE completely does away with this, most ships have the same damage type for their primarily Turbolasers, CapitalShip, and those with missiles as their primary have AntiVeryHeavy as their damage type. Most secondary lasers are set to AntiMedium. While you might find this odd or imbalanced at first, this is the nature of a total conversion and Star Wars in particular.
As well, with descriptions, I'm always open to suggestions for new ones. Heck, if you write them up, don't be surprised if they end up ingame!
The construction thumbnails are a WIP; I was forced to release 2.0E earlier than I had planned due to persisting personal issues. I'll have most of these fixed up in the next patch.
From what I gather in this post, I believe you'd be more pleased with the overall "quality" of Requiem more.
It has to do with the basic mathematical problem of getting a 2D square texture on a spherical mesh. The standard Sins planet textures for example don't have any distortion because they use a very large projection that essentially divides the planet into 5 square units. However in order to get this quality 4/9s of what the texture could actually fit goes unused.
Most planet modders find the space required to "fix" the distortion far to great a cost given Sins' memory limits, as fixing it would reduce the number of planets they could add (and in a mod that adds 6 new factions you have all of that to consider as well). Thus in this case its a conscious decision to slightly reduce the quality in order to greatly expand the quantity of what the mod can offer.
Well my brother was the empire and I was the NR. My older brother was also frustrated with the mod because of how ridiculously slow it is. I mean it isnt even an issue of me being impatient, its just that it is really really slow. By the nebulons I mean the NRs equal to the empires star destroyers aka it looks sort of like a star destroyer. Maybe thats what your talking about being a corona or something and Ive gotten it mixed up. Also I think Ive got a few ideas you might be able to use. In my recent thread about empire management, Ive put a prototype thread about invasion forces.
Also, if your up for a few other suggestions then Ill say id like to see faction heroes like in EAW, as well as the space stations from EAW. Actually theres alot of material you could use from EAW unless theres something that keeps you from doing that of course. Im talking death star, darth vader, palpatine, han, chewie, luke, kyle katarn, the whole lot. Maybe you were already planning that. And if the torpedo spheres are meant to replace the death star... thats just...
Anyways I dont mean to say I dont appreciate the efforts you and other modders have put into it. I just wanted to give a list of grievances, and perhaps find a better mod to go to. Even if requiem does turn out to be more clean cut quality, I might turn back to Galactic if I start missing it.
Not a lot of Star Wars purists like EaW, they got a lot of details wrong and made up their own ships even though there were already popular EU ships that filled that role perfectly (I.e. Tartan patrol frigate instead of Lancer frigate, Assault Cruiser Mrk. II instead of the already existing Assault Cruiser). With Rebellion Requiem will probably get a few "hero" like units, one of the Alliance ultimate abilities already allows them to deploy Rogue Squadron, which is sort of a hero unit, but sadly there is currently no easy way to limit them to one unit at a time.
And this is where the EaW modding community comes in. EaW is a surprising decent platform for those SW modders since it is relatively easy to code to change up values and basic things. The modding community is the only thing that really keeps this game alive.
A lot of the currently active mods have greatly increased the "cannon" of the game to their respective eras as well as gave greater detail and eyecandy.
Btw what you gonna give Rouge Squadron as an ultimate? Make them shoot proton torpedos to one shot capitals as well as give massive durablity against all starfighters and flak frigates?
Nah I meant its one of the Alliance capital ships ultimate abilities to deploy them. Sadly active abilities like firing a proton torpedo is impossible in the current engine on strikecraft, but they are an extremely good fighter squad that also makes all Alliance strikecraft in the gravity well harder to hit. Its currently in Requiem 3.41/3.5 beta, what I was saying that Rebellion should make it easier to make them (if only by tying them to Titans). The Millennium Falcon as Gold Leader and Maarek Stele leading a TIE Defender Squadron are also likely in the future.
Something really weird happened during the development of EaW, its like they were going to use the existing vehicles and ships, but they suddenly switched to the new stuff for unknown reasons. I like EaW and FoC in concept, but they just did so many weird things with them, the choice of units is so limited, and the Zann Consortium was little more than Petroglyph's dream team. The creation of Mandal Hypernautics when MandalMotors already existed, and the early deployment of the StarViper-class attack platform are two of the biggest discrepancies. The Zann Consortium could have been done without things like corruption and black market tech being so OP, and the only thing I really liked about them was the Mandalorian tech they used. Mods like Phoenix Rising and UEaW are what make EaW worth it.
EaW is really moddable, I remember that from back when I made the Hull Breach mod years ago. Vanilla though, is weird. Like Zeta said, Petro suddenly decided to switch to new ships rather than use existing ones, heck even the Tartan's files clearly reference the Carrack. Then there's the entire Zann Consortium in which every single unit is overpowered. Literally, every single one of their units, in comparison to their Rebel and Empire counterparts, is superior. The one example I always found baffling is Bossk's concussion missiles are more powerful than a Y-Wing's proton torpedos, even though they are faster, more maneuverable, and can target fighters.
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