In mid 2010, we released Elemental: War of Magic. This was our first attempt at: [A] a fantasy strategy game and [B] a game that involved terrain. This produced…mixed results in that when released it was buggy (like on nVidia 7900 cards you get a white tactical battle screen which caused a particular PC Gamer UK reviewer to claim the game was totally broken) AND even once fixed it was…meh. v1.4 is decent but it’s no Master of Magic.
So the question is, what do you think we should do to describe Fallen Enchantress?
It exists in the same world but it’s a very different game. It’s not an expansion since there’s not much of War of Magic specific stuff in it. But I hasten to call it a sequel because sequels imply a continuation of an existing series of gameplay mechanics none of which exist.
So what do you suggest we do to describe it to new players?
You can’t distance from Elemental with this title, it would hint that you are trying to hide the connection with WOM, which is not only very hard to do, but also wrong. Given the effort you have made in making FE a great game, there is no reason to hide the connection, on the contrary, it shows high commitment and is a positive attitude you want people to know about.
If the game is good as we have reasons to hope for, there will be good reviews and people will be more than willing to give it a chance. However, for those potential customers who do not read reviews and just enter a shop looking for a good game, you maybe don’t want Elemental to be the first thing they read on the box.
So, I think Elemental: Fallen Enchantress - where Elemental is written smaller, and Fallen Enchantress is the big title that everyone focuses on at a first glance - is probably what you are looking for. And since this title is too long, it will soon become just Fallen Enchantress for everyone, which is also what you want.
Just my opinion!
I agree with Mari.
But it doesn't answer what FE is.
How about simply the next strategy game in the Elemental series?
Hmm after reading about Shogun 2: Fall of the Samurai I think what you have done with Elemental is similar to how they put out a stand alone expansion after every game. Really these expansions are whole new games that use a lot of art assets kinda like FE.
I think stick with the title you have, explain what's new and whats gone and/or improved/different. Call it a reimagining of Elemental: WOM.
yes, this
It's been picked up by RPS as an "elemental sequel": http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/RockPaperShotgun/~3/ouhr4sKjxEA/
This is one of those tough love but devil's advocate posts. Remember Psyconaughts? Why did Psyconaughts die? Why did Skyrim sell 10 million copies while other very big name RPG competitors are only salivating? Part of the answer is branding at least according to Gamasutra.
Psyconaughts was a AAA, fun, well advertised, enjoyable title but it sold poorly despite all the awards. Simply put, nobody wanted to be a psyconaught. Going into people's heads for a living wasn't appealing. If I walked into a random game forum room right now and asked how many players want to be a Fallen Enchantress then how many young male hands would go up? Chances are not too many unless maybe if it's an MMO and that is still a bit of a stretch. The failure of Psyconaughts is proof that these things do matter.
*I'm not trying to marginalize the female demographic.
Skyrim on the otherhand is an Elder Scrolls # game but it is almost never ever referred to as Elder scrolls #, only Skyrim. It still takes place in the same basic world with the same basic systems plus a face lift. The reason is because the name Elder Scrolls # appeals to a niche RPG market while Skyrim is more broad especially to young gamers by name only. I suspect Bioware is just beginning to figure this out with its Dragon Age IP.
Another problem is trolls and human nature to believe whatever you want to believe. All I can say is adding Kael to the title might be worth exploring because even the most ugly of trolls will choke on it including a certain outspoken celebrity monsterator moderator on the Civ 5 forums that will do everything in his power to abort the reputation of this game before it comes to fruit. Side note, Kael seems to be more popular than Derek Paxton, no offense Derek.
Fallen Enchantress= possibility for fanservice.
Seriously though, I do kinda wish we had some more fanservice potential in Stardock games.
(watches as Brad adds a fujoshi to the staff)
You make some good points, RogueCaptain.
2012 is the year of the TBS; Jagged Alliance, Xcom, Fallen Enchantress.
Promote Fallen Enchantress as a true strategy game with unlimited replayability. Ultimately the game's attributes and gameplay are more important than whether or not it's tied to Elemental. The media will link it to Elemental regardless.
Maybe Warlock: Master of the Arcane too.
I also think dropping any attachment to Elemental might be a good idea.
Frogboy you seem like a great guy...but you should not even be doing the AI.
You'll have the same problem as Elemental..who going to tell the boss the AI needs improvement?
Yea, but Brad is good at AI, and it's probably hard to find people to hire to do that work as well. And Derek and Jon will tell him if there is a problem, that's what they were hired to do.
You can be honest as you like about the failings of the previous game, but to sell this one you need to be clear about it being a better game. If it's a new game from the ground up with lessons freshly learned, that can improve its worth in the eyes of the buyer.
Fallen Enchantress is a title that already catches in the mind better than Elemental, because you're evoking a different image. I can picture this with that alone. Now all you need is for someone to come up with a better caption than 'Boromir did not simply want to go to Mordor, so I made Legolas shoot him in the knee with an arrow.'
If I recall correctly, Derek has the final say on all things FE. Frogboy has made more than one reference to lobbying Derek for this or that feature to help him write better AI. I imagine they'll have no problem telling him if some part of his area of responsibility is lacking.
I disagree with Frogboy's statement that if Fallen Enchantress fails that stardock cannot make great PC games. You still have SINS(Which seems wildly successful and its two expansions) and you have SINS Rebellion coming up and its promising to look very awesome. You also have the Galactic Civ games as well which are still doing well after a long period of time.
Elemental : The enchantress Needs You !!
Now thet's fan service .
I could fall for that enchantress.
harpo
sins is not stardock developed game...
"Elemental: Carcinogenic Enchantress"
Ironclad Games developed Sins of a Solar Empire, not Stardock. While we were actively involved in its design, the Iron Engine (which is the key technology behind Sins of a Solar Empire) was entirely the creation of Ironclad. So they deserve 100% credit for that.
That would be tantamount to telling John Carmack not to work on the next Id 3D engine because he's the boss. How many expert AI developers are there in the game industry? Based on the games I play, not many.
I think that MOO3 deserved all the negativity it received. It was really buggy, almost to the point of being unplayable.
Talk about a game that over reached and desperately needed a PM!
I followed the development of that game from day 0.
Casus Belli anyone?
PS: Can I get an early release for my birthday on the 15th? I won't have any time to play the next weekend.
It wasn't meant as an insult, you can sometimes see more clearly the further you step away.
I just have a few things to say, this is going to be kind of long winded.
A lot of the backlash of MOO3 wasn't just that it had a rocky launch but because it was so different from MOO2. And while "Internet people" will remember WOM's launch problems, the vast bulk of units sold were sold long after its problems were resolved and have no idea that there was ever a problem at the launch.
Oh God, don't mention MOO3. Probably the most depressing moment I've ever had in gaming is the anticipation I felt for the MOO3, and how completely those hopes were crushed when I played the game for first time. I wouldn't compare MOO3 to WOM at all though. To me MOO3's biggest problem was how good MOO2 was. People had such high expectation that it had it's work cut out for it...even though it was terrible game in it's own right. To me WOM is comparable in alot of ways for me to GalCiv I. I bought GalCivI hoping it would be a spiritual successor to MOO2, and be successful where MOO3 failed. This ended up not really being the case, and while GalCivI wasn't exactly what I was hoping for, it's ended up being a pretty good game. In a similar way, I Pre-ordered WOM hoping that it would be the spiritual successor to MOM. That didn't really happen for me, and although 1.4 is an alright experience, it's still not exactly what I was looking for. Of course GalCivI didn't have the release issues that WOM had, but my experiences with the game are similar.
If this is ture, then I am incredibly excited about FE. As I just mentioned, I thought GalCivI was a pretty good game, but it wasn't really what I was looking for. You guys at Stardock really delivered with GalCivII and it's expansions in my opinion. GalCivII continues to be one those game that I continuously go back to and has replaced MOO2 in my mind as the king of space 4X games. Because of this I know you guys have the capacity to make FE vastly superior to WOM. Again, as I mentioned, WOM 1.4 is a pretty good game, but not really what I was looking for, but if it's true that FE is more an improvement than GalCivII was (which is saying alot imo) I don't think you should worry about how to describe the game.
Ultimately War of Magic didn't sell a ton of copies and other than Internet griefers, most people haven't heard of it. And regardless of whether it were called Elemental II or not, every review or what have you is going to mention how bumpy WOM's launch was. There is no escaping that
I Agree with this. Most people posting here are talking about whether to call it "Elemental" or not, but we were asked how they should describe FE not what to call it. As you said I think It won't really matter if you call it Elemental II or not. In the long run, yes the reviewers are going to remember the rocky launch of WOM, but i think it will be a more of a help than a hindrance. If FE really is so vastly improved, you won't have to worry about how to describe the game, because those reviewers are going to be going "oh ya, I remember War of Magic, this is way better". FE should be described as a next generation Elemental game, and more broadly a next generation fantasy strategy game. With all the lessons learned from WOM, and Stardock's reputation of loyalty to their customers, people will see the problems surrounding WOM and instead of being worried, they will be confidant yall won't make the same mistakes with FE. At the end of the day, the game will have to speak for itself.
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