I've come back to play E:WoM after a while, last thing I played was 1.1
It's much better.
But I really hate the "counterattack of the dead"!
If I attack first and kill my opponent, he should NOT be able to damage me after his death!
This is antilogical, makes useless the aproaching strategy in tactical battles (which is almost the only strategy we can apply, until Frogboy will rewrite the tactical AI) and makes the "exploring Sovereign" strategic approach almost impossible to use (it is damaged too much too often).
Please, please remove this ASAP!
"Even if a Samurai's head were to be suddenly cut off, he should still be able to perform one more action with certainty. If one becomes like a revengeful ghost and shows great determination, though his head is cut off, he should not die."
I love that quote. anyways,
You have to remember, the game's combat is an abstraction. Despite "killing" the opponent, they may still be alive long enough to counterattack, or the wound didn't "affect" them until after they strained themselves from the energy they spent attacking an opponent. There are all kinds of scenarios.
In medieval combat, death is usually slow and painful.
I like this a lot more than before. Melee combat should always be dangerous to both parties, unless one has overwhelming statistics to back him up.
However, I don't agree with Teslacrashed that death was slow and painful in medieval combat. Death was usually fast and painful.
I think the speed up of the tactical battles has caused this, where the animation speed and events no longer match.
One has to now wonder what's the point of combat animations if they don't show what's going on?
I agree with Heavenfall here, I like the chance for both parties to take damage. If it makes more sense to you think of it as both of you are acting at same time, the one who goes first just initiated the combat.
I'm not a fan of this either. It's turn based combat where actions aren't always resolved in a turn based way? Confusing and annoying. Maybe it's more realistic, but I don't like it at all as a mechanic.
i love it actually - but would be nice if when you attacked someone instead of only showing the one unit attacking they both did.and also all units doing so instead of just one.so perhapsall units rushing to closests border of attacking area - swinging their weapons - and units dying on both sides (or not depending on how it goes)but right now - meh -
Well, if the animations match the numbers, it will be much better.
But still, I think that the counterattack should do less damage in general, and when it is the "counterattack of a dead" it should do even less damage...
The point is that it's not a counterattack, but rather a fight (simultaneous attack). That actually makes the most sense, really - groups of warriors don't just stand there and politely wait their turn when you run up and start bashing them with your weapons. The animation system just doesn't support what's going on.
Personally I find it odd that the game has so much counter-attacking in the first place. The amount of times you can swing your sword in a minute doesn't depend on how many people swing their swords at you. I get it that they can't have a system where enemy units all attack you in one turn at the same time before you strike back but at the moment it seems almost the other way around: positioning and numbers are irrelevant and it makes little difference whether you take everyone on at once or individually.
Once we get the initiative system though, and split the turn order up into my archers, your dragon, my infantry, my hero, your knights (or whatever), then the potential problem of all of one players units attacking one enemy (effectively) at the same time will be removed, so the counter-attack system will be a lot less necesarry.
Once that happens then we can implement better ways or working out who strikes first, who gets a counter-attack and who doesn't. Personally I think it would be better based on weapon types. If weapons had a Reach stat, this could be used to determine who struck first (say, both sides roll 1-10 + reach + 5 charge bonus and the winner strikes first), and if you beat them by a high enough margin, they wouldn't be able to counter-attack at all. Balance this with a mobility stat that determines how many sides you can defend yourelf from (ie, a spear has a long reach but a mobility of only three, so can only counter-attack enemies in front and on the two squares either side, while a sword has 5 and can defend itself from flanking attacks (and possibly higher basic damage).
Exactly. The ability to counter-attack is necessary but you should only be able to do it once in a turn.
I love Sethai's ideas... it would make flanking a lot more interesting, because if your units all use spears they may do good damage and have good reach but they can't do anything if someone comes up behind their group and attacks. And if they turn around to take him out they expose their backs to their original targets. It would also let short weapons like Daggers be a bit more useful; they may not have much power, but they're very light and you could probably counterattack from any direction. Daggers are definitely going to be on the bottom rung of the Reach ladder and spears near the top... come to think of it, we could also use Reach as a limiter for mounted weapons; ever heard of a horseman fighting with a dagger?
Just want to second that I think these ideas sound awesome. Let hope we get something at least this interesting with FE.
Hopefully the weapons types will also be figuring into the initiative system in some way. Spear are long, can successfully counter attack lots of strikes to their front, but they're also slow and hard to move around the battlefield. This type of stuff would bring up all sort of interesting dynamics where formations and maneuvering would actually be meaningful. You really want to be able to flank those spearmen with your swordsmen and if they also get a higher movement order that also makes it possible for them to pull off this tactic.
Another interesting, and pretty obvious, addition, that's missing from WoM right now would be an actual facing system tied in to all this. Are your spearmen facing forward/left/right/back. Changing facing uses up something like half a movement (i.e. you drop halfway down the movement queue instead of all the way down). Thus is the enemies trying to flank you you have the option of trying to counter by rotating some of your own units to catch them.
And all of this brings us to what is probably essential to making all of this really fun: some way to set up your battle formations prior to a fight. Please, please no more random piles of units facing each other. We really need a system where we can place our archers to the rear, cavalry on the flanks and infantry in the middle. Or change it up and drive straight through the center with your cav to split their army in two. Etc.
All this talk of facing reminds me of my board game Lionheart. Anyone play that? If the battles could be as good as that, I think we would all be happy.
Wow. Lionheart, blast from the past. I've always thought the elemental tactical combat could steal a few things from that game. The tactical combat maps are essentially identical to the lionheart board. A system like that would definitely be a huge improvement.
Another bonus. If elemental had some sort of system like this you would have another interesting trait that could be included: ambusher. It would allow a Champion and his army to ambush an enemy army if they hadn't been detected yet (would also require some sort of stealth system, one can dream). The ambusher would get to set up their army formation while the ambushee would just have a clump of units.
I didn't agree with OP. This is suppose to be represent simultaneous combat. Unless there is a First Strike ability then when a unit attaks another the one being attack should be able to fight back
Actully it reminds me of pen & paper Dungeon and Dragons 3.5 combat system that we play. Loved that combat system
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