And if a God did exist..which one would it be? The christian? Muslim? Nordic myth (Vothan, Thor), greek?
When I study the bible and actually read it, I find some horrible FACTS about the christian god.
This god that so many christians follow is an egomanic, sadistic, massmurder jackass, who SAYS that if you do not worshop him, you will be damned forever.
What GOD, or supernatural powered beeing, who was GOOD, would ever hurt innocent people simply because:
A ) They where to stupid to believe
B ) They choose not to believe
These people can be very nice people otherwise. Not hurt anyone, help people and live a perfectly good life. And if Christians would have their way...their GOD would DAMN poeple for the SOLE reason that they didnt believe. At the same time, Jesus preaches free will? Comon! Yxomoron anyone?
Also...to give you a few FACTS and exemples what I mean about this god being a jackass.....
1. If you have a insolent child. A teenager or any child of your own that missbehaves in any way. May it be cursing or simply dont do what you say.....BEING A KID that is. (kids dont learn fast). IF you have a child like this. Your GOD commands you to lock your child in your basement and torture them! This is in the bible as pure TEXT. Not something you can think up. It says so right there.
2. If you work on a sunday...you go to hell. Hello?
3. In the bible there are strict guidelines how to handle your slaves. Who you can have as a slave. What they are worth and how you can or can not beat them. Your GOD does not only condone slavory, but have a FAQ how to handle it. This is printed and laid out for anyone who wants to READ the bible.
I can not say for certain that there is not a plane of existance that we dont know about.
I am saying that there isnt any good. And if there is and the bible is the core for who this god is...Fuck him!
--Maulkin
Inb4locked. Not that I completely disagree, but this is not a forum for religious debate.
Hear, hear. I have a hard enough time with the militarists, the last thing I need is a swarm of religious wackos and anti-wackos running around....
What you say is pretty mediocre stuff that pretty much has been repeated to death over and over again.
Remember that the bible is written by mortals, and those mortals may have gotten it wrong. Very few christians believe EVERY single word that the bible concists off. So you reading the bible and finding inconsistencies and stupid stuff pretty much just tells us that the book was indeed written by mortal men. That do not dissprove god in any way, it just disproves those crazies that think every word there somehow came from the very mouth of the christian god himself.
The fact is that no human can prove that god either exist or that he dont. It comes down to personal belief. Some people put greater stock in the fact that people used to believe, and that miracles according to certain texts used to happen, their own or others religious experience, or simply faith. While others choose to put greater faith in other things, maybe contrary to what others believe.
I personally am not sure if ANY god exists or not. How can i? I can choose to think either but i dont have any hard evidence to prove that either side is right and until i get that or some vision unfolds for me that make be believe i leave the point of view where it deserves to be : Undecided.
I prefer to believe.
It gives me something to hold on to.
What do the unbelievers have to hold on to? A flimsy belief such as this?
As an actual Bible-believing Christian, I can tell you that this is part of the Mosaic Law, which has been laid to rest and is no longer in force. That said, the adage "Spare the rod and spoil the rod" is still true; if you do not discipline your children, then you spoil them and, effectively, you do not care enough about them to correct their errors.
Mosaic Law prohibition, intended primarily to set the people of Israel apart from the neighboring pagan nations. Also note that it is not Sunday; the Jewish Sabbath is actually a Saturday.
Once again, however, the Mosaic Law is no longer in effect, having been replaced with the New Covenant.
The Bible has strict guidelines such as that because, back in the day, there was no moral or legal prohibition against slavery; indeed, a wealthy, prosperous and charitable/equitable person who owned slaves could quite probably give them a higher quality of life than a street beggar. That said, the Bible says nothing about the morality or lack thereof of slavery. It simply gives godly guidelines for such relationships as between a master and slave.
These guidelines are applicable to modern society in an employer/employee relationship- though obviously some of it wouldn't be as applicable.
The entire problem with your skewed theological viewpoint, as presented in your OP, is the concept that people are basically "good"- the Bible quite clearly teaches the opposite, that people are fundamentally sinful. It's quite well supported too; you don't have to teach small children to disobey or be bad, you have to teach them to obey and be good.
The general consensus among Protestant, Evangelical Christian groups is that the mentally impaired/disabled are welcomed into heaven because they do not understand their own sinfulness- and therefore cannot be convicted of it. The same goes for infants; while innately sinful, they do not understand their sinfulness and therefore cannot repent and believe.
A more accurate statement would be "they reject belief in the Bible and God". As such, the reject the belief that humans are innately sinful, require redemption, and that the only way to acquire such redemption is by faith in Jesus Christ.
The existence of free will and the action of Divine providence is..... quite frankly brain-hurting. It exists, but the human mind simply can't comprehend it.
As I noted above, your theology is skewed; if you can show me someone who is truly innocent (hint: you can't), then we'll talk. But since Christ, the God-Man, was the only truly innocent, sinless human being ever to walk the Earth, your case holds no water.
If you can prove it, then I might take you seriously, as it stands, all I see is hot air.
Though I find it quite reasonable that mankind should worship God- He did create us, after all. And parents expect their children to obey them, do they not? Worshiping God is much the same; by obeying Him, we show that we love Him.
Double post because otherwise quotes get messed up.
It's not........ but I personally feel that I should answer, as I actually am a Bible-believing Christian.
The Bible is quite clear on this; though written by mortal, sinful men, it was divinely inspired, and thus, inerrant. No exceptions.
Find me an inconsistency, and I'll show you something completely consistent.
Well of course it can't be proven; Occam's Razor itself tells us that faith is what is required for belief. Nothing more, nothing less.
That, however, doesn't mean that God doesn't exist.
Indeed; better to have glorious paradise after death, than to think that there is nothing but this life.
Jewish Law. The Old Testament is essentially the history of the Jews. You're also making a depressingly common mistake, thinking slavery to be some great evil. Slavers did go out and capture slaves outside of the norm, but the great majority of slaves were people who sold themselves into it because of extreme poverty, or to pay a debt. They were also not slaves in the modern sense, but indentured servants. Hence the rules in the Bible with regards to them. Treat them well, and they might want to stay your servant, treat them poorly, and they'll be guaranteed to leave when their allotted time is up, and you're required to pay them severance. Only non Jews, and only Canaanites originally, were taken as slaves in the modern sense, as spoils of war typically.
The Jews themselves were at one time slaves as a race, beholden to the Egyptians because, during a rather severe drought, they were taken in and fed in return for their service. It was a matter of honor, barbaric by the standards of today perhaps, but contextually a norm. That they had such stringent rules at the time was a sign of great progress, really. Few nations aspired to such lofty goals at the time.
Unfortunately for all of these arguments, 99% of the time the disbelieving people just don't care and put this out here to gain some kind of inflammatory response.
My bet is that he is going to either not post anything else, or just straight up not care about what we are saying.
I feel bad for people like that.
Whiskey, you are giving him exactly what he wants. Which is to start a flame war, and if this was 4chan or some other forum where that is appropriate I might take you on until I get depressed by the poor quality of the responses on both sides. But it is not. No one should be on a Stardock forum to debate religion, which is even a more futile argument than Star Wars Vs. Star Trek. It will never be answered, and with anonymity of the internet it inevitably leads to insults, arrogance, and all sorts of vices that just make your own side look worse to everyone else.
Such things are for JoeUser.com. I have already reported to the moderators.
Just like a TV channel, skip it if you do not like it.
Free speech to many times is muzzled by the extreme minority that can't handle others point of view.
I did not really understand this before, I will need to check this out. ThanksI always wondered how, after the Jews left Egypt, that they had enough gold to build this monstrous golden calf.
BTW, did that calf grow up and move to Wall St.?
I was answering his views with my own. That's all; more than that, I was correcting misconceptions he had (hopefully, at any rate) about such things.
By no means do I want a flamewar; such would be detrimental to both sides.
Despite the status of the Jews as slaves, they still had a fairly large amount of gold jewelry, which, as recorded in the book of Exodus, was melted down to produce said calf.
By no account was it a "monstrous" statue.
When you are talkin solid gold, damn right it is. I have seen many depictions and 99% are the size of a real calf. What would that be worth today?
I am fairly sure that the calf was small.
I just read the passage in the KJV Bible and I agree, no size reference.
*sigh*
I rather wish that I wasn't. Oh well, I suppose.
There's no explicit size mention- so there's no way to tell how big it is.
I was also referencing purely the size- as in, it would not be a monstrously enormous statue.
Well Whiskey. I dont mind that you belive in something that others cannot prove you wrong in, but if you are looking for inconsistencies in the bible you dont have to look far. For a so called divine work i find it amusing that it is so poorly written, one should think that if god truly inspired those who wrote them he could atleast give them a better understanding of words and coherency. And dont you find it strange that this divinely inspired, and thus, inerrant, No exceptions, book had to be changed from the old testament to the new testament simply because the old testament was so full of crazy stuff that the vatican feared it would alienate all of christianity in the modern world. Funny how this book that could not be wrong had to be changed by people today. But i guess anyone that alters the book is automatically divinely inspired.
"For I am merciful, saith the Lord, and I will not keep anger forever." (Jeremiah 3:12) "Ye have kindled a fire in mine anger, which shall burn forever." (Jeremiah 17:4)
"If I testify about myself, my testimony is not valid." (John 5:31)"Jesus answered: Even if I testify on my own behalf, my testimony is valid." (John 8:14
"And Jesus coming, spoke to them, saying: All power is given to me in heaven and in earth." (Matthew 28:18) "the whole world is under control of the evil one." (1 John 5:19)
And Jesus said, "For judgement I am come into this world." (John 9:39) "I came not to judge the world" (John 12:47)
"Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven." (Matthew 5:16) "Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven." (Matthew 6:1)
"Jacob said, 'I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.'" (Genesis 32:30) "No man hath seen God at any time." (John 1:18)
We should fear God (Matthew 10:28) We should love God (Matthew 22:37) There is no fear in love (1 John 4:18)
The bible is just shock full of strange contradictory stuff. And no i am not going to point out every single one of them, i have better things to do, but there are several sites on the internet full of contradictions in the bible, so if you force the issue i will merely copy/ paste 10 k issues from there and you can spend the next week answering them -if you want.
edit: i have come to the decision that even if you would want to reply to those 10 thousand inconsistencies i am not going to spend one single minute more on anything that has the slightest to do with you. You dont exist in my world.
Reposted below.
And if a God did exist..
I just found your article that blasphemes against Almighty God.
Almighty Eternal God exists. Man has reason and right reasoning alone asserts sufficient evidence to guarantee the existence of God.
...............................................
Maulkin writes: When I study the bible and actually read it,
Then consider Psalm 13: 1-6 (from the Douay Rheims version).
"....The fool hath said in his heart: There is no God, They are corrupt, and are become abominable in their ways: there is none that doth good, no not one.
2 The Lord hath looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there be any that understand and seek God.
3 They are all gone aside, they are become unprofitable together: there is none that doth good, no not one. Their throat is an open sepulchre: with their tongues they acted deceitfully; the poison of asps is under their lips. Their mouth is full of cursing and bitterness; their feet are swift to shed blood. Destruction and unhappiness in their ways: and the way of peace they have not known: there is no fear of God before their eyes.
4 Shall not all they know that work iniquity, who devour my people as they eat bread?
5 They have not called upon the Lord: there have they trembled for fear, where there was no fear.
6 For the Lord is in the just generation: you have confounded the counsel of the poor man, but the Lord is his hope."
........................................................
Maulkin writes:
......This god that so many christians follow ........SAYS that if you do not worshop him, you will be damned forever.
Yes. Exactly. Every person ever born will experience the four last things....Death, Judgment, eternal life in Heaven or eternal life in Hell.
God has told mankind very clearly why He created man, what is the destiny of man, and what man must do in order to attain that destiny. God first sent the Prophets to teach men His will; after that He sent His own Divine Son, Jesus Christ; and Christ sent the Catholic Church --a Chruch still teaching with the infallible authority Of God in our midst.
God has willed that we should have the opportunity to praise, love and serve Him in this life to be eternallly happy with Him in the next. Surely, a great destiny. The secret of life can be summed up in as such...I come from God; I mus tlive for God and I shall go back to God.
It's all up to us; we freely choose God or deny Him.
..........................................................................
And if Christians would have their way...their GOD would DAMN poeple for the SOLE reason that they didnt believe. At the same time, Jesus preaches free will? Comon! Yxomoron anyone?
God doesn't hurt them.
As far as "A"....Ignorance is not invincible. It can be overcome. We violate our reason in suppressing its spontaneous concept of God, and by persuading ourselves He does not exist. Pascal rightly says there are 2 types of men...those who are afraid to lose God and those who are afraid that they might find Him.
As far as "B"...God endowed human beings with free will. We owe all we have to God who made us and reason demands that we render a suitable practicle acknowledgment of the fact to God that would be expressed in the duty of religion whihc imply reverence and honor and worship of God and obedience to such instructions, commands and laws as He pleases.
If man be not free, then he cannot be expected to keep laws and should not be punished for breaking them. There can be no obligation to observe a law when its not possible to keep it.
Our Merciful God will make every allowance as regards salvation. He'll judge men only for those things for which they were acvtually responsible and in the degree for which they are responsbile.
...........................................................
Quoting Kitkun, reply 13This thread is nothing but and was not intended to be anything beyond flamebait.
I must ask, why can't there be an intellectual discussion about God?
These people can be very nice people otherwise. Not hurt anyone, help people and live a perfectly good life.
Yes, people who do not believe in God can be all these things.
But have you ever asked yourself, where does this goodnesss come from?
In God alone is the Source of every good.
Malanthor,
The Bible is the Book of all books. And why do we have it?
Well, first, since God has given to mankind a supernatural destiny, it goes back to our duty to know, love and serve God by practicing His revealed true religion.
Again, man could know by natural reason that there is a God, however, reason does not go far enough.
Beside right reason, we need the additional supernatural truth revealed by God and taught us by the one, true Christian religion.
As a Catholic, I maintain that the Bible contains part of God's full revelation.
Yes, the Books of the Bible were written by fallible human beings but under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit inspired the human authors to write down in the manner and style of the day what He wanted them to write. From this we can say that the whole Bible is the written Word of God.
God is interested in telling mankind His truth. Reasonable people know that the truth concerning the nature and operatons of an Infinite Being will baffle a finite mind to some extent. But they are not so foolish as to deny a truth declared by God merely because they do not fully grasp it.
So God is the Principal Author of the Bible and yes, it contains words with meanings that confuse people.
But understand the progress and mutation of human language is unavoidable. And God DID KNOW that the changing mentalities of subsequent generations would lead to confusion. To obviate the danger He could one of two things.
He could stabilize human reason and prevent each human being from mistaking the original sense, or else He could establish certain men to teach in His Name and finally, if necessary, an infallible tribunal (Magisterium) which men could consult in matters of religion, faith and morals.
God chose the latter course and thus never intended for the Bible to be the ultimate guide in religious belief or man attaining his supernatural destiny.
Men who do not accept the Catholic Church but insist on puzzling out the sense for themselves have only themselves to blame if they end in scepticism.
There are many great features available to you once you register, including:
Sign in or Create Account
