I wonder if Stardock has ever done a study of how much money they have made from the free skins that people have made and uploaded at Wincustomize? Also the screenshots, wallpapers, widgets, rainys etc. etc. It's a win, win for Stardock. Not only do they get money from these people buying the software, buying the subscription but they get free advertising too in the form of what these people have done with the software. How much of the revenue comes in from newbies seeing all those screenshots and skins? They see all that and they want to have their desktops like that so they buy the software and subscriptions. How cool is that for Stardock? So if someone has made a screenshot and say 1,000 people have downloaded it how many of those people who have looked at it or downloaded it have bought the software because of that screenshot? I think it would be very interesting to see those results and I'd be very surprised if that hasn't been studied by Brad and company.
HOW-EV-ER... there is no way anyone will ever convince ME that if it were not for the existence of Wincustomize most of the SD customization products would NOT still be in existence. The skinners freely creating the masses of skins and then donating them to SD via this site was the ideal tool for SD. It would not have happened anyplace else either as the primary focus of this site has always been the SD apps.
Operating at a loss, I don't dispute that but compared to the amount of advertising $ that would have had to be spent to achieve the level of success the products have would have cost an enormous amount as well. It's all a matter of which bucket the money is put in to.
In any case, the PC world would be a much more drab and mundane place without SD. Thank you Brad for doing it!
I'm missing something.
Do you people "concerned" that Stardock is benefiting from WC want something? Deserve something?
I pointed out the winners in the situation we have now. Are there any losers? Who? What have you lost (that you wouldn't have if WC didn't exist)?
If you don't like the way this system works, start your own. Let me know in 10 years how that works out.
Come on, Phoon.... you should remember 'back then' ....when the net had 'oodles' of skinning sites, each believing it was the best/most significant, any of whom probably 'imagined' they would/could be an on-going outlet for Stardock's skinnables....
Even Deviantart had not yet redefined itself to become a 'Jack-of-all-trades' when it came to graphic art.....it was mooted as yet another 'significant' skinning site.
Any/all of those sites would have supplanted the 'need' for Wincustomize.com were it not for the benefit of being able to look back from the now to the then and know that Deskmod died, Skinz.org never recovered from eFront, Customize.org mis-directed and Deviantart outgrew 'gainliness' making no moderation quite problematic.
As a 'publicity machine' it's quite likely more people 'discover' such things as Windowblinds from Download.com than from here, because if they're here they likely already know...
I don't understand why there is a problem at all. I mean...we all of us, as many as there are are one big community. I said this before...its like having an extended family IMO. If what we do helps SD in any way that should be a plus. Call it free advertising or whatever you want but to me...its what I do, its what I want to do, its what I enjoy doing. What do I care if they make money on it. It started out as a business and we, believe it or not are in a sense salespeople. We use the products SD creates to make our own stuff to display here at WC. Where is the wrong in that? Seriously. Look how many members there are. How many people use the product. how many skinners there are and how many more there can be. We get newbies all the time. Mally McGinnis, Luk3-o, Neone6 to name a few and they're all good. Look at the quality of the skins coming in, WindowBlinds, Docks, cursors etc. We have real bonafide artists here. Real people with real talent. Would that self same talent be on display as it is without the products that help them create their masterpieces? Probably but....SD through WC has them and we are all the more richer for it.
Okay...rant over.
here we go again
trying to make humor out of a ridiculous thread
if thats what you want...start your own website...
IMO I think what they have done to market the products is genius...wish I had thought about it and it was me u were bitching about
Hmm, no. And read my statement again, this time in favour of Stardock.
Ridiculous for YOU. Maybe. Others may want a good discussion (Note: 'discussion' not 'fight') or like to read different opinions, sometimes even to stand corrected afterwards.
right...yet to you my "opinion" of this thread is nonsense.
I'm very unhappy with the state of the nation and in particular the rich and well to do. In my view they are getting huge advantages as cited by the statistics I presented. The bankers, the Koch Brothers. Don't need to repeat it over and over.
THE MIDDLE CLASS IS DEAD.
My frustration has boiled over.
It's very difficult for me to be comfortable here anymore.
Thing about posting stuff in a forum or say in an email is it's there forever. I've probably burned my bridges here. One has got to have the courage of ones convictions.
See ya all later.
I don't know about anyone else...but I come here to skin and to forget about all the political crap in the world...even if for a short time. Nothing I can do about the worlds problems...so I skin...call it a mental vacation from it all if you will. And further...forums/email/pm's are the worse places to have a political discusson...it always ends badly...people go off half cocked...end up leaving...and deleting their stuff...gnashing of teeth...pulling out hair...and generally behaving badly.
I think the one thing we can all agree on (then again maybe not) is that the state of affairs in this country is in the toilet and you can almost hear the giant sucking sound as it goes down the drain. So how about when we are here we just leave politics at the door.
Noted You set "opinion" in quotes Yourself ? In what way is "I just want to be naked." an opinion anyways ? It's not even funny. And if that was meant to be provoking, well, goal achieved, so what ?
I totally fail to see Chasbos points in politics being a part of WC, and why he feels he has to leave because of those, as this site has never been about politics. But he had some valid points to think about and others added good valid points also, So Why You felt You had to destroy this thread with offtopic spam is beyond me. And looking at the forums it is nearly the same people over and over, who bring threads offtopic sooner or later. And after 50 times every joke is not even funny anymore...
All this to make You and others think, not to accuse or bash anyone, nor to moan or whine. If discussions like this are not even possible anymore, we really have come far.
Webgizmos : Word @ politics. PLUS : There are not only americans here. Don't let me start with german politics here.
I understand that Carl...but politics are pretty much the same all over...and handful of people making things miserable for everyone else. I'll never understand that...where's the tar and feathers...where's peoples spines. Bring on the revolution! Don't get me started!
This is why I hate politics. It turns damn good people against each other and for what. Leave it for those who don't know any better. Politics does not belong here. C'mon people. Lets not let this get out of hand....Please.
Freeware types of Programs are cool but typically have a moderate to short life span, and often unstable due to the lack of structure and/or waning interest by the developers as new projects arise. Having helped launch one of the first desktop customization programs, I know first hand the road most freeware programs inevitably take.
The Elders of skinning migrated here as our old homes started closing their doors. Razor art, Custo.org, skinz.org, Desktopmod,etc. etc etc. Lack of interest, inner fighting, cost of keeping the doors open.. etc, kept leaving us searching for new places to call home. We were not forced here, we followed our friends and peers to a stable and organized community, and have enjoyed the benefits of helping it flourish. Not only with getting to download ton's of kickass skins over the years, but in building friendships with folks we probably never have or will get to meet face to face.. Many I will treasure for a life time. Without SD behind WB keeping the development going, I could surmise that It too would have waned away to nothing as developers found paying job's..
The selling point for me was Not all the free skins, I bought in to SD for the ability to customize my Windows { Back then I used LiteStep To customize the shell } WB stabily did the one thing I couldn't.., even if the only available skins were SD made I would have still subscribed, downloaded the ones I liked, and made my own. Sure I would have not enjoyed all the killer skins that have been offered by the community. But at-least I would been able to customize my "windows" without hacking my files..
This symbiotic co-existence works for everyone, skinners can advance to sell skins on WC, possibly be recruited by SD or other Co's by exposure here, get ranked up enough to download unlimited amounts of skins, not just SD stuff either.
Me personally? If SD has made enough cash from someone "Needing" one of my skins so badly that they went and bought a SD sub to get it and in return kept the site going..... SWEET!!!!. Not only would I be amazed, but satisfied.... as over the years I have gotten so much more from this community than I possibly have ever been able to return.
Just my 2 cents..
HG_Eliminator
{AKA} PhenomTT
PS.. also remember, when WC was created all types of skinnable programs were and are still hosted.. A virtual community for all skinners to enjoy, "not" just those who skin SD app's..
If SD app's seem to be the most popular to be skinned, I would chock it up to the continual development of the app's thats keeping the skinners interested...
When I came around in 2001ish SD apps were the front runners. They are more so now either from the other apps falling by the wayside or from the way the new WC is created with those apps primarily in hiding unless turned on.
I'm not at all complaining about the way it is/has been by any means. I just think the existence of WC has played a much larger role in the success of the SD apps than is generally admitted to or realized.
On the topic of the OP: I think it's great that an individual with a vision was able to work hard, develop a concept and make substantial amounts of money from it.
Following the diversions of the OP: There is no way in hell that Brad or any other company should feel bad about making lots of money from the hard work, nor be expected to "give some of it away" to people that PURPOSELY sit on their dead LAZY asses and expect everyone else to provide for them.
Once again. Thank you Brad and SD for being here and continuing to be here.
- and if Skinhit want to "show his skin" then that's his choice. There's no law that says he can't do it on any damn thread he chooses ( with the exception of the support threads).
As our user base keeps growing but our "WC Subscriber" base stay's pretty much the same.. SD has to foot more of the bill, thus they need to make increase sales to help off set the larger portion of funds to dished out to keep WC going. Some times we have to compromise for the good of the community.. I would Rather see WC self sufficient.. but is just not going to happen with as few subscribers as we have..
There are no laws for a couple of things we don't do because of a thing called 'decency'.
hello Brad
While some of you are worried or concerned about Stardock making money because of it's community members there is a far more important event going on right now. If the U.S. Congress does not raise the current debt ceiling the country could very well default on its debt and it's many creditors around the world come knocking at the door.
I don't think there are too many people who feel that this is going to happen but you can not deny that there is a strong possibility that it could.
Sort of puts this thread in perspective I believe.
I'm really trying to figure out what the point of this thread along with the subsequent replies. Really, once I start seeing posts about the Koch brothers (who btw employ tens of thousands of people) I just have to laugh at some point.
Stardock, WinCustomize, etc. has no official political stance. If you are concerned about the leanings of people like Brad, then I would suggest heading over to JU as he has thousands of posts regarding subjects that you seem to be interested in.
As Jafo already stated, WinCustomize runs as a community "service" for skinning and desktop apps. It doesn't make anybody rich.
What I said.
I have family and friends who've purchased Windowblinds to use my stuff and I've gotten email from folks about buying it for that exact reason too. Do I think I deserve a piece of the pie...no, of course not. If I didn't enjoy this hobby (and that's what it is to me...I have a job), I simply wouldn't do it. I mean no one's twisting my arm to keep on skinning or even use this site...right? It might be nice to have an occasional bone thrown our (The Skinners!) way. I wouldn't turn down say a WC sub, Stardock software, t-shirt or whatever if it were offered. I mean, who would?
In my opinion, EVERYONE's personal beliefs about anything at all is simply none of anyone else's business on this forum or any other unless THEY feel the need to share that information, opinion, etc. themselves. Nothing else to say about that....
There is sometimes a trendancy to blow folks off who really have something they feel strongly about (whether YOU do or not) with attempted humor or "cute" remarks instead of actually kicking it around a bit. I seem to remember a time when we could have a knock down, drag out and still all end up being friends at the end of the day (or blowout). I wonder, have attitudes changed that much to "kinder and gentler" or just a different type of user with thinner skins?!?!
I hate to see folks get pissed and leave (been there, done that) but I figure everyone is free to come and go as they please. It's absolutely their own decision to make. That said, Chasbo, I consider you my friend and I hope you come to terms with whatever's bugging you, bro. I got a gut feeling from what I've read it's not just about WC, Brad or Stardock but I could be wrong...only you know that for sure. If there's any way I can help, PM me, email me or whatever...
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